What is the cheapest way to travel around Germany? We want to visit 7-8you citiesbut train tickets are aa much as $250 for 2 people per ride. I've seen carpooling, ICE, DB. What did you do on your 2 week trip and how much did it cost??

Sorry, I'm on my phone and it is not typing well.

What cities did you want to visit? I have rented cars often. I've driven in some major German cities and parked on the street, but it depends on the city.

I'm confused by what you mean by "$250 for 2 people per ride." What kind of distance, how many cities, etc.?

I don't know where you're getting your prices from but I looked up Frankfurt to Munich and the fare was E44, Berlin to Frankfurt - E49, and Munich to Bremen - E69. This was for some date in March. If you book farther ahead you can get less expensive fares. The Munich to Bremen trip is almost the length of Germany so it's a distance.

Are you intimating that you have 2 weeks (14 days) and want to visit 7 or 8 cities? You're moving to a new place every other day? That's a lot of traveling and not a lot of seeing anything.

Whether you rent a car or take trains depends on where you are going. It's best not to have a car in cities and it is better to have a car for a more rural vacation.

"What is the cheapest way to travel around Germany?"

By day pass on the regional trains... no reservations required (or even possible), change plans spontaneously, no advance-purchase needed.

2-5 people, all day at any hour on Sat. or Sun.: "Happy Weekend" ticket, 40€, buy at a ticket machine in Germany and go anywhere you like within Germany.

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...d_ticket.shtml

On weekdays: "Quer Durchs Land" ticket: 42€ for one + 6€ per additional passenger, buy at a ticket machine in Germany and go anywhere you like within Germany (after 9 am.)

If you are making shorter trips within one state ("Land") then use a "Länder Ticket." Prices vary from state to state. The Bayern (bavaria) ticket is 29€ for 2-5 people (anytime on Sat or Sun, after 9 am weekdays.):

http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm

Other Länder tickets:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...r-ticket.shtml

"It's best not to have a car in cities and it is better to have a car for a more rural vacation."

The first part is true. The second, IMO, is not always true, probably not even most of the time. Most of the 5,500 German train stations are located in small towns and villages, not big cities, and Germany has one of the densest rail networks on the planet. I've done many trips by train that involved visits only to small rural towns.

I think you need to solidify your itinerary and then figure out what transport makes sense. We always rent a car in Germany (cheap rates and one of the few remaining opprotunities to drive fast cars fast - legally). Also we find it give us freedom to explore that you simply don;t have with a train (if a cute town zips past the train window how will you ever go back and find it.

That said - if yuo are doing 2 or 3 major cities - take the train. If a lot of smaller places rent a car. But in 14 days I would have no more than 4 hotels if yuo really want to see/do anything. (Day trips from one spot are often more sensible than moving all the time.)

"...if a cute town zips past the train window how will you ever go back and find it."

You can plan trips to cute towns, but if you've got extra time for the sort of spontaneous stopping you suggest, the regional trains I suggested above stop in many towns along the way. If you're on a fast train, say between Frankfurt and Würzburg, you might have one stop in between - Aschaffenburg. But the regional express trains make 15 stops along that route. You can get off, look around for an hour, or two, then get back on another train with your daypass. Stow your bag in lockers or at the local TI office.

You might also consider a German Rail Pass; the Twin Pass allows two people to travel together, with no restriction or limits, for about US$90 per day in first class; second class is considerably less expensive. http://www.germanrailpasses.com/

You will purchase the pass before you go to Europe; ours were issued in Salt Lake City and delivered to our home very quickly.

Yes - but I can't drive the train 120 mph - can I?

Sorry - car just gives youwaymore flexibility - if you like to drive and are not trying to squeeze every penny.

Russ;

Sometimes it seems like your a Deutsche Bahn spokesperson.

Maximum Flexibility = car (indisputable)
Minimum Cost = depends on may factors; distance, no.of travelers, car selected, etc..

If you give up on the time (leaving when you want and in most cases arriving faster) and location accessibility (you can't get to some places by train and some you can get too require long walks or taxis to then get to the sights) advantages of a car, you can probably manage getting around cheaper by train. But then again, one could just go and stay in a single hotel and walk around any major city for a week too.

Quite simply, some people love to drive, and there is no better (cheaper, easier) place in Europe to exercise that passion than Germany.

For our trips to Germany, we have done a combination of trains and rental cars. We rent cars for any portion of the trip where a train isn't sufficient - for example last summer we went to Aufsess, which is not served by the train and the time before we chose to have a car for our trip to the Alps and along the Romantic Road for flexibility.

Driving in Germany is fun and easy - although sometimes finding your way around small towns can be a challenge (pedestrian-only streets, narrow alleys that really are streets but don't look like it, etc.)

The train can also be very convinient - the train network is very good for travel between towns and cities and for day trips. No navigation is needed so it can be esspecially relaxing, and it is a good time to write postcards, journals, etc. or just stare out the window. I like to be able to just hope on a train at the end of a long day of wandering and be taken back to my town. And sometimes there are interesting people on the train.

I've never found train station locations to be a problem in smaller towns - if it is too far to walk, there is usually a bus and pretty much always a taxi, so no problem. And another benefit of the train - this is Germany, which means beer. Your BAC doesn't matter when you are on the train, so that beer at lunch isn't a problem. However, the driving under the influence laws are very strict, so you don't want to have any beer if you are going to be driving.

For specifics, here are the numbers for our last trip:

Rental car:
Frankfurt airport to Munich city, 4 days: 251 euro
Gas: 90 euro

Trains/buses:
Munich to Prague: 83 euro (2 people)
Prague to Nuremburg: 38 euro (2 people)
Nuremburg to Frankfurt: 54 euro (2 people)

For our train and bus travel, I bought the tickets through DBahn, planned a little ahead and got them early to snag a Saver Fare. There are cheaper fares if you use the Lander tickets - we wanted fast trains though or express bus, so we didn't go that route.

GREAT info november_moon. A real inspiration.

It's true: figure out what you really, really, really want to see, then micromanage the transport - - you can use those incredible bargain local rail daypasses (on regional trains) that Russ talks about, or short-term car rentals within a region (or for a longer stretch with a one-way drop), or 90-days in advance get the cheap long-haul advance reservations on bahn.de, or even the Germanrail pass if you want comfort and flexibility.

Aramis writes, "some people love to drive, and there is no better (cheaper, easier) place in Europe to exercise that passion than Germany."

If you just love to drive, then you'd likely feel deprived without a car in Europe, and perhaps you really should rent one in spite of the possible drawbacks. But my comments were aimed not at auto enthusiasts but at someone considering the merits of the train for getting around - like the OP is doing - and in response to nytraveler's question about stopping here and there.

It might be true that Germany is the ideal place for driving, but because Germany's train system is so developed, I think it is equally true that there is no better place in Europe to use trains, and it is also true that few if any countries have infused the sort of flexibility and affordability that Germany has into its ticket offerings.

I must ask, Aramis, what sort of predictability and flexibility there is in heavy Stau (traffic jams), which are not unknown to rental car customers. Another question... while fuel, rental, parking, insurance, and vignette fees are somewhat predictable (and predictably substantial), what about the hidden car costs that come with the fairly common radar trap or parking tickets, or deductible amounts for door dings or spills? And what about the potential for accidents? Would you agree that the risk is greater with cars than with trains? There's a lot to consider.

I indeed am to DB as Jared once was to Subway - an avid customer. Maybe they'll hand me a check someday?

While I'm here, I'll add to n_moon's comments the notion that after a train-seat beer or two, you don't need to pull off the Autobahn for a nice pee.

As far as daypasses are concerned, I only touched on the major ones. As is the case in many regions within the German states, there are local deals too. Take northern Bavaria for example, where a daypass for 16.20€ will get a family of 6 from Nuremberg to Bamberg to Rothenburg and back to Nuremberg again. You can even take your dog. You'd need a hefty vehicle to drive that route, and the gas alone would cost you 25€.

Sorry, Aramis. It's just hard for me not to share this information.

Well we have done road trips over much of europe - and besides the fun of driving, the ease of going where you want when you want, without worrying about a schedule, we have been to places (planned) that it would have been a PIA to get to by train and also to other places that we just fell across - that we didn't know existed until we drove to/past them (yes, places with no train servce).

To us, part of the joy of europe is the serendipity of exploring a
nd sometimes not knowing exactly what you will see along the way. Sometimes a place you plan and sometimes a place that you can't even find in the guidebooks. BUT, when we travel we plan on no more than 4 hours a day driving (split between two of us) and either don;t drink at lunch or have only one small beer or wine (which is legal). If we want to drink more (but we're not big drinkers, we may have a couple of glasses of wine at a special dinner - and walk or cab back to the hotel.

Travel by train to many places is certainly possible. And if for one or two people is often cheaper than renting a car. And is perfect;y comfortable (although I find it kind of boring - but then I ride subways and even commuter trains a lot - and it's usually a PIA.

It really depends on what type of trip you want and what you value.

Russ writes;

"I must ask, Aramis, what sort of predictability and flexibility there is in heavy Stau (traffic jams), which are not unknown to rental car customers. Another question... while fuel, rental, parking, insurance, and vignette fees are somewhat predictable (and predictably substantial), what about the hidden car costs that come with the fairly common radar trap or parking tickets, or deductible amounts for door dings or spills? And what about the potential for accidents? Would you agree that the risk is greater with cars than with trains? There's a lot to consider."

Here is my experience;

10 trips - no traffic, not one, ever - I don't travel major routes at commuting times and back road, or major highways away from cities, don't have any more traffic jams than in N. America.

Fuel - very predictable cost factored into the decision beforehand

Parking - minimal cost, factored into the rental decision. Almost always free in smaller towns. Always close to the centre of town saving time and money

Insurance - CDW is not mandatory, is covered by credit card , so never taken. No other insurance is needed or required

Vignette fee- 8 Euros for Austria, right? That's a factor?

Speeding/Parking tickets - don't speed, and park where allowed - never had a ticket. DO you get these frequently at home?

Deductible charges - see Insurance comment

Accidents - never had one.



Let me "boomerang" your shopping list of problems back at you.

Train breakdowns,

Train accidents,

Train delays, (I know, I know, it is Germany....)

Stations far from town centre requiring taxis (start adding in subway or taxi fares to your fare examples, perhaps) or long walks (add to your travel times) - frequently toting all your luggage (Ugghh!),

Difficulty (and expense) storing luggage if you want to stop en route for the one hour stopover walk you suggested,

Rural routes and vistas not serviced by train cannot be visited,

Tied to a schedule that must begin after 9:00 a.m. to take advantage of the cheaper Lander fares.

I know you can respond like I did saying you have never encountered any of these. That's not the point - balance is the point. Pulling out a laundry list of what could go wrong is not the basis for making a point when just as many things can potentially go wrong for any selected method of travel.

Your Nuremberg - Bamberg - Rothenburg - Nuremberg round trip suggestion is almost 5 hours of train travel, with a minimum of 5 changes. I wouldn't care if it was free, I wouldn't be doing that.

Nuremberg to Rothenburg, something more practical, is 1:10 with 2 train changes, or 1:50 with just 1 change. Add in 10-15 minutes to get to and from the train stations at each end and you have a 1:40 - 2:30 hour train exercise - each way. I can drive that in 1:10 with 5 minutes at either end to reach the car. No need to hit the hourly DB schedule times and plenty of time to stop at Ansbach, Feuchtwangen, or Bad Windsheim on the way there or back - an extra 20 minutes or so for each.

I frequently take the train In Germany, when I don't need the flexibility or convenience of a car. There are times when driving makes more sense. If someone hates driving then, of course, the train will always win.

Many people have a fear of driving in a foreign country - at least the first time. If I can help dispel that so that they feel comfortable trying it because it fits their desires, then call me the Jared of the rental industry.

Aramis writes, "...just as many things can potentially go wrong for any selected method of travel." And you refer to "train accidents" ?????????? That's your balancing factor for the 5 million car accidents in Germany from 2009 through 2010? Funny guy.

Individual car costs look good until you add them up and compare them with car travel.

"Stations far from town centre requiring taxis"???????
"I frequently take the train In Germany..."

A dubious claim. From your post, I take it there's rarely a reason to use trains. After 3 car trips and many more train trips around Germany, I've had less luck with traffic than you, and the only station distant from the center that I can think of off hand is Baden-Baden's. It is of course served not only by taxis but by very frequent buses - buses that are normally included in the Länder Ticket daypasses I mention. In your frequent travels, exactly where have you had no option but to take a taxi?? Of the many stations I've been in, I've never needed a taxi to get to the center, which almost invariably is within a few blocks.

"Rural routes and vistas not serviced by train cannot be visited"
But they usually can. Buses connect stations and such towns, and bus travel is included in the Länder tickets. But after all, this is a 2-week trip and chances are good that the rail system alone will be adequate.

"Insurance - CDW is not mandatory, is covered by credit card , so never taken."

Some agencies don't accept CC coverage and require CDW. And if they accept the CC, you may end up with a hold on your card that usurps your credit. I've never had to insure German trains against my negligence.

My car experiences were not horrible in Germany, and it sounds like you've had some good fortune with cars yourself. But I'd encourage potential rental customers to peruse the comments about shady rental agency practices in Germany (a real rash of them on Tripadvisor.)

"I wouldn't care if it was free..." But the OP asks specifically about costs - and he might care.

"Many people have a fear of driving in a foreign country - at least the first time."

Probably as many as fear they won't be able to use the trains effectively.

Nice chatting with you. You should stick with the car, Aramis.



awheaton asks, "What did you do on your 2 week trip and how much did it cost??"

A couple of years ago, I traveled around the Black Forest region for 5-6 days by train. Saw Freiburg, Basel, Schiltach, Gengenbach, Triberg, Bad Säckingen, and several other towns. My total transport cost was 0.00€. I stayed in a small town called Löffingen, one of 130 or so towns that offer the Konus card for free travel on all forms of transport within the BF region:

http://www.blackforest-tourism.com/konus

Nytraveler - I think you summed it up when you said:

"It really depends on what type of trip you want and what you value."

Germany is great for traveling by train or by car. It just depends on what a person wants to do. I am glad that we have been able to give the OP some options (and also to let him or her know that $250 per trip is NOT the norm).

Now you're just getting mean Russ. If you can't have a discussion without insults maybe you shouldn't be doing this.

An incident rate of 5 million automobile accident over a 2 year period is fanciful. Where did you get that figure? I find a rate of 336,000 per year, not 2.5 million. The entire EU had 1.3 million accidents in 2006.

My point was that simply listing all the negative things associated with renting a vehicle isn't the best way to make a case for alternate forms of transport. If it was we'd all be walking everywhere. You have now included shady rental practices.

My claim of taking the train is "dubious", why? Simply because I didn't come to the same conclusion as you have?

Nuremberg's main station is about 1.5 km from the Rathausplatz, so is Dresden's from the Innerestadt. Bamberg's station is over 2.5 kms from the Rathaus. How would you cover those distances? There is walking with luggage, a 15 - 30 minute exercise, taking a public bus or S-Bahn, with it's incumbent transfers, wait times and still a decent walk to your hotel likely from the closest stop or, a taxi.

How would you travel from Salzburg to Koenigsee? 2 buses, about 1 hour total driving time plus transfers? And then how would you visit Kehlsteinhaus on the way back? That's a nice day with a car, but I can't even begin to figure out, nor do I really want to, all the different bus connections involved. So much for the scenery and stopping beside a mountain lake or roadside pullout for a spectacular view.

How about Vierzehnheiligen, north of Bamberg? How would you get there?

You actually made the case that over a long enough trip, the rail system might ("chances are") become "adequate" as a means of transport.

"But after all, this is a 2-week trip and chances are good that the rail system alone will be adequate."

That actually affirms my point. I don't want to spend my precious vacation time transferring between trains and buses when I can get someplace quicker by car.

"Where did you get that figure?"

You are looking only at injury accidents.

Bundesanstalt für Straßenwesen - check it out:

http://www.bast.de/cln_033/nn_43710/...tml?__nnn=true

But even with your deficient figure, it's hard to understand using accident rates as an advantage for the car.

"Nuremberg's main station is about 1.5 km from the Rathausplatz, so is Dresden's from the Innerestadt. Bamberg's station is over 2.5 kms from the Rathaus. How would you cover those distances?"

On daytrips? On foot, probably, without my luggage. It stays in my room. But if it's raining, I'll probably grab a bus. If I'm making a stop on the way to a new base town, I stow my bags in a station locker or at the TI office. Upon arrival in a base town? I usually walk to my room or hotel - which I arrange within comfortable walking distance from the station. Yes, Bamberg's is a tad out there, now that you mention it. We (my 75-year-old in-laws included) walked to our apartment there. We walked into the old town, once, took a bus once. We didn't require a taxi there or anywhere else in Germany. It helps to pack appropriately and to have the right luggage.

"How about Vierzehnheiligen, north of Bamberg? How would you get there?"

One of the less accessible points of interest in Germany. It's fabulous, but is it likely to be on anyone's list?? If it is, you can still arrange to get there by bus. It's 14 bus minutes from Bad Staffelstein's station. Here's the schedule:

http://www.lichtenfels.bayern.de/de/...19_09_2011.pdf

You could probably find some sights that are even less accessible by public transport, but does that really mean that trips using public transport, even those in rural places, are unreasonable? Not in Germany. Not with a bit of advance planning and preparation, anyway. If you won't use public transport in Germany, you won't use
it anywhere else.