suze

<We don't really want to give up traveling and aren't sure if we want kids bad enough to give it up!>

Please do NOT have children. At least not yet since you are not "sure".

WoinParis

Spot on Suze.

If you hesitate to have kids for such issues, don't.
Actually, I'd say you need serious counselling if you ask yourselves these kind of question.

Now, another possibility is to abandon your kids when you go on holiday. Lots of people do that with pupies, why not with kids ?

I am absolutely sure this thread has been started by a troll. Or somebody really abnormal. To ask such things on a forum to complete strangers is beyond my comprehension.

Like people asking themselves such questions would bother with any of our answers here. Utter BS.

CaliGurl

You can do anything you want...but what you want may change if you have children. You may develop a new circle of friends who take fabulous family friendly vacation you never even thought about and your world will burst wide open. Having children will expose you to a whole different community of people.

I started having kids at 22, by 40 the twins turned 18 and I had a 15 year old. At 43 we went on our first trip to Europe, just hubby and I. Will be doing our 3rd in the Spring. Now at 51, expecting my first grandchild and we still have youth, health, more money and time...I think we hit the sweet spot.

Aknox53

Yes, Caligirl I agree, you did hit the sweet spot, I can't help but think it would have been so much easier to make the decision to have kids if we had done it when we were very young like you and didn't know what it was like to have time and money. But that didn't happen, we were going to school so that we could have the life we have today. And I love my life.

I don't appreciate the comments that I have "mental illness" or am "abnormal" from Suze and WoinParis. Many of the people who commented on this post were in similar predicaments. Like I said, we have a nice house, good jobs, two dogs that we take care of very well I might add, and I love the way my life is. I have many friends with kids, but none of them enjoy traveling like my husband and I do, therefore I have no one to ask how traveling with kids is. I also have no reference point for what it's like to give up the type of life I have now to have a different (although I'm sure equally as gratifying) life. So being that many of the Fodors members are big travelers like us, I assumed people on here would have been in similar situations. If you don't have any productive responses I'd appreciate if you keep it to yourself.

Sassafrass

Aknox53,

This is my second comment on your post. I also don't think it is about travel as much as the live changing experience of becoming a parent. Your question is a good one and a seriously valid one. You can never, ever know how children will affect your life. You can't even predict things happening to you or your husband, but that is another issue. I wish you could go on the lounge (no longer open to newcomers) and read all the heartbreak for parents connected with drugs, physical and mental illness, broken relationships, etc, of their children.

Of course, (most) parents wouldn't give their kids back, although a state that rescinded child abandonment laws had many, many kids, including whole families of kids, abandoned within days and had to revise the law.

Of course they have fun with their kids, see the world through their kids eyes, etc. Joy, joy, joy! Once the child is here, you would give your life for him or her. All true! However, the reality is their interests and needs (physical, emotional, educational, etc.) take precedence over your needs, your wants, even your own health. It does not mean you are a bad or selfish person if you decide you would prefer not to be in that position.

One poll a few years ago indicated 40% of people who had kids, would, if they were able to do it over, not have children. Older women who had kids in their 40s said they loved their kids, but felt trapped, as if they were in prison, and by time their kids leave home, their own lives will be over.

Women I know without kids.
One has no kids and at 70, is very happy she didn't. She travels all the time.
Another helped raise a younger sibling and decided that was enough Motherhood, so none of her own. She is very happy.
One who wanted children, but didn't was kind of sad about it, but enjoyed lots of travel and friends.
If someone is totally in love with littles and likes being with them, then have or adopt some, or become a teacher. If not, don't feel bad about your decision.

WoinParis

Well.
It is a public forum. Travel.
You ask you get answers.
You don't like answers - your prob.
Your question is about kids. Not travel.

Get yourself a psychoanalyst
Not wanting kids because you want to travel is a pretext and a stupid one.
Now I am no psychologist - your question is not travel relevant but I gave you my answer.

Of course I am a father of 4 and have always traveled.

nytraveler

Travel and children are not mutually exclusive. Of course, there are certain trips you can;t do at certain times - but IMHO you are looking at a much bigger question here.

IMHO having children or not will affect your lives in a million ways more than it will how you travel. Unless you are positive you want kids - and are ready to change your life in a lot of ways (esp including the tremendous cost of raising kids) I wouldn't even consider it.

grandmere

Suze and WoiniParis, you wrote exactly what I was thinking when I read this post; right on, IMO!

As most are saying here, this is not about travel with children; it is about whether to have children or not-- and "beyond comprehension" to be asking that question on this forum.

dreamon

So what is the right forum?

Sometimes it's easier to ask strangers who may have faced similar thoughts and decisions. Surely it's healthy to discuss issues, including the impact of having children upon your freedoms, in an open way. What is gained by making someone feel bad about asking for other peoples' thoughts?

millie2112

whether you have children now or not is something only you as a couple can answer.
I have 2 grown up children now, and I can tell you there really is never a perfectly right time to have children.
But once you do, you adjust your life and you become ready for each stage.
When my children were small we did not really do big overseas trips, but we enjoyed our family time on beach holidays and doing things together.
Now my children are older, I love traveling with them. I waited until they were in their teens before I took them to Paris and NYC.
These are the best holidays that I have ever had.
Now my husband and I travel together as my children are doing their own thing. and it is great too. But I would still love to have my children on these trips.
So whatever you decide, it will be the best for you. and if you do decide to have children, it does not mean your travel days are over. Everything is so doable these days.

NYCFoodSnob

If you're talking about <i>intensity of feeling</i>, having a child and loving your child far surpasses any moment that I've experienced in my 30+ years of travel.

If you're not sure you're ready to make the selfless commitment required to be a great parent, then I could think of a lot of diversions to talk about that would prevent me from making any decision.

I know several people who didn't think they wanted children until they had their first. The experience changed their lives forever, and they all say life is better.

I met a young couple recently poolside near Montepulciano, who were traveling with their 15-month-old baby. They couldn't keep their eyes off the adorable child for one second, so I wondered about all the Italy visuals they were missing because of that. They told me it was the only vacation time they could get, and there was no way they were separating from their child. They said their hearts and minds were blown away by the helpful reception and the generous hospitality of the Italians. The most difficult part of travel for them was surviving the packed plane ride. The baby cried on the plane, and some fellow passengers made their unhappiness known.

Families have been traveling together since the beginning of time. Most people find a way to do all the things they truly want to do. It's called desire and motivation, and a willingness to work a little harder.

StCirq

I also don't think this is a totally appropriate topic for a travel board, because IMO the issue isn't X v. Y, but the larger (huge) independent question of deciding to have kids. But I'll try to answer from my own experience.

I was already a committed and inveterate traveler at the age of 34 when I had my first child. I was totally ambivalent about having kids - it was my then-husband who wanted them, but I wasn't adamantly enough against having them that I refused. I had my second child at 39. There was NO way, however, that I was going to stop traveling.

Both times I was pregnant I traveled to Europe (once with my husband and the second time with a friend). After that, I/sometimes we continued to travel to Europe with babies every single year of their lives until they were in their late teens/early 20s. We also took domestic trips. When my older child was 5 we bought a vacation home in France, and I would park there with the kids every summer for 6 weeks or more - my husband would sometimes join, sometimes not. We also used the house as a base for trips to Spain, Italy, England, Switzerland, and elsewhere. The kids invited friends to join us some summers.

One way I made this work was to rent the vacation home for about 14 weeks a month. That was a significant undertaking in addition to the busy business I ran in the USA (a business, I should add, that allowed me to work by computer from anywhere in the world - I planned it that way). The rental income paid for all of our trips around Europe, for 15 years, plus it covered the mortgage and ultilities for the French house. I managed the rental completely on my own (no help from the husband), using contacts I made in our village to keep up the property. It was a formula that worked really well for me, though there were times I was run ragged being a rental agent and runnning a business. That was the tradeoff.

Now, this formula just wouldn't work, IMO, for the situation you describe, which I assume involves salaried jobs, plus the two dogs. I'm just pointing out that if travel is tops of your list of things to do in life, it's possible to get creative, work really hard, and come up with a solution. For me, the benefits were extraordinary. I didn't have to harbor any resentments about "giving important things up," my kids got to see the world and learn new languages, and I found an exciting balance between my big-city business life and the joys of living in a tiny rural commune in France.

Lastly, I will add that all of this, even despite the rental income bit, was enormously costly. Kids cost a fortune. We were lucky to be able to do it at the time. And the house in France is now my home, which was always what I had in mind for the end of my rainbow.

Macross

If you do be a parent that does not need to carry the baby bed, huge stroller and car seat. I see all the paraphernalia parent's bring just on the plane. Keep it simple.

colduphere

We love/d travelling with three kids. In fact I avoid thinking of travelling without them. When it's just the two of us I guess we'll go to London or Paris - somewhere safe and familiar. And write trip reports about jet lag, and losing a day every time you change cities, and slowing the pace down, and restaurants. And hotels instead of hostels. And luggage. And we'll take taxis instead of public transportation.

Without the kids. It's going to be awful.

NewbE

<"beyond comprehension" to be asking that question on this forum.>
Wow. So much in life must pass you by if THIS is beyond comprehension.

It's always been hard to say how truly glad people are that they had kids, because the taboos against saying one regrets them are so strong, even anonymously--researchers struggle with this. But I think the parents I know are genuinely glad they had their kids.

With one exception, a family with a mentally ill adult child. The mother has always been pretty frank, saying that had she know how awful their golden years would be, she would not have had their daughter. A sad, sad story there. Life is unpredictable.

For me, it has always come down to the question, do I want to be a parent? Not "have kids" or "start a family" (hate that one--SO and I ARE a family), but "be a parent". And for me the answer has always been No.

But had it been Yes, I'd like to think SO and I would have dragged them on trips with us somehow and had a great time doing so.

NewbE

Another thought!

You say you have two dogs that you take very good care of. I've always found pet ownership analogous to parenting, not perfectly so, but close.

We love our pets madly, worry about them when we travel (a bit--they have a great sitter), and have in the past curtailed our travel to care for a very sick, elderly cat. We spend whatever is necessary on them and don't count the cost, but in some sense that spending has cut into our travel budget, I suppose.

But we wouldn't be without them, even though they place limitations on our lives.

suze

<<I don't appreciate the comments that I have "mental illness" or am "abnormal" from Suze and WoinParis.>>

I did not say either of those things.

I only said imo it's best to wait until you are "sure" you want kids before having them.

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"If you don't have any productive responses I'd appreciate if you keep it to yourself."</font></i>

A word of wisdom: It's far easier to have children and travel with them than trying to control a poster's behavior on an internet forum. Best not to waste the precious time in your life.

CaliGurl

AKnox- the thing that hit me most is that you said you love your life, that made me smile.

I have always wanted to travel, even went to travel agent school in the 80's to travel the world as part of my job. I never wanted kids. Then unplanned babies came (twins) and those dreams were put on hold. I embraced some new dreams and cant imagine my life without my 3 kids and 2 step kids (Yup 5 kids).

I have a lot of friends your age who have chosen to not have babies and most of them are world travelers and don't thing twice about it. They also have Fur babies and boy are those dogs spoiled. We like to hang with them now that our kids are grown, drink wine and talk travel.

I think yes, babies/kids do make travel harder (heck going to the grocery store can be challenging)...you just have to think what kids of challenges you can handle and remember we are much stronger then we think!

NewbE

<We like to hang with them now that our kids are grown, drink wine and talk travel. >

This made me think of another thing, which is that we have found it difficult over the years to socialize with people who have young kids. Childcare arrangements, desired weekend activities, those kinds of things, got in the way on both sides. We have tended to hang out with, and travel with, other childless people our age, or older people whose kids are grown, and occasionally with younger people who haven't had kids yet.

Certainly none of my observations are a reason not to have kids! They're just meant to add to the discussion, which I hope the OP is still finding interesting.