My husband and i are just in the beginning stages of planning a trip to Europe. We are looking at between 12-17 days. We are still very much in the planning phase, but are considering starting in London, a couple of days in paris and finishing in rome.

The questions i have is about transportation. Getting from London to Paris is easy.

But then do we want to take the eurail and maybe stop at a few place between or rent a van. We could take a few days to drive through France? I also even considered taking a cheap flight from Paris to Zagreb, than heading to the coast and taking the ferry over to Venice.

Here is the catch. We will have 7 kids with us (aged 11-20). So i am wondering what would be the best option. My husband and i have been to Rome and been to Paris, but done very little traveling between cities let alone countries. Also worried about luggage. Even if we limit kids to one carry on size, is that a problem with trains or busses?


Thanks!!

12 days is doable -- <i>barely</i> doable, but doable -- for London Paris and Rome. Even that would be very rushed w/ 9 people.

That is w/ NO other excursions/side trips/detours/ferries/etc.

Fly to London > train to Paris > fly to Rome > Fly home will totally eat up 12 days. If your total trip is 12 days, you need to subtract about 3 days for flying to Europe, recovering from jetlag, and flying home. So 12 is cutting everything very short.

If you have as many as 17 days total -- then you are actually working w/ 14 free days. So just the 3 cities is still pretty good. You could add maybe one other destination --Venice, or somewhere in the south of France or ??? But you won't have time for a long, leisurely drive.

And factor in that you lose 1/2 to 1 full day every time you move from one city to the next.

janisj,

Thanks that helps. My plans always start big, then when reality sinks in, they shift.

Since my husband and i have already done paris, i was thinking that may be a shorter stay. Kids see the highlights for a day or two, then move on to somewhere else. Thats why i was considering driving or taking train through southern France or even switzerland.

any thoughts on that?

FYI--I plugged in Paris - Rome on bahn.de to see how long by train--about 12 hours via Zurich and Milan changes, 13 hours via Lyon, Geneva, Brig, Domodossola, and Milan changes, which I couldn't imagine with that many children to shepherd. However, I assume if you take the train you are going to pick some stops along the way and not ride straight through.

For trains you need to be able to pick up each bag and climb stairs on/off the train as well as in the station.

With such a large group, perhaps you would like to base in a city or two, but take day trips out into the countryside to match your interests rather than moving from place to place in a van or by train. If you choose London, then there is the Cotswolds or several castles that are accessible. From Paris you can reach a chateau in the country for a day (and let the littler ones run/work off some energy). From Rome you have several choices as well.

How about skipping France altogether, and flying from London to Venice, and then driving or taking a train to Rome with some stops along the way in the Tuscany and/or Umbria area (possibly Florence and a smaller town), or maybe some time south of Rome along the Amalfi coast and Pompeii. Another option would be skipping Italy and doing London and France.

If just 12 days, I'd stick to 2 countries. If 17, then maybe you can squeeze in a 3rd. You have to factor in travel time also, as it will take away from sight-seeing time.

Also what time of year?

We travelled with 7 people in 2007 and I would say its not worth stopping in a city for a day or two. The logistics are just too much work with that many people (i cant even imagine it with 7 'kids' we were 7 adults and moving places was a hassle!)

With 12-14 days I would say stick with 3 locations to minimize transit and lodging logistics. London, Paris, Rome would be good even split (or maybe London, Paris, Venice, Florence only if you have 14 full days)...and you wouldnt need a car. For that many people you would need likely 3 cars to stay in the countryside or a van...

If you are only planning to stay for a day or two in Paris I say skip it because the cost/benefit with that many people are not worth it in my opinion. There is so much to see in Paris that I am sure even if you have been before you will love it again!

Well, I just want to see so much, but the information we are getting is overwhelming that we need to limit locations. I absolutley loved Paris and would love to share that with the kids, but would also love to take them somewhere off the beaten path. Maybe we do that via day trips.

My other problem is when you are in paris i really think you need to stay in the heart of it. But that is very pricey.

thanks everyone for the advice. If I keep hearing the same thing over and over, i guess i will have to listen

Now I just need to decide what stays and what goes.

I agree that a day or 2 in the large cities is hardly worth it. I'd say they would need at least 3 FULL days, but 5 or 6 would be better.

To keep the costs down look into renting apartments - usually cheaper plus you can make your own meals to save money too!

then do we want to take the eurail and maybe stop at a few place in between>

If by Eurail you mean the train system yes but a Eurailpass may or may not be the best ticket - and your plans in your OP suggests that just buying individual tickets may be your best bet - that is if you fly to Zagreb from Paris.
But to get a great fix on the fantastic European rail system and various passes (about 200 different types of passes now in addition to the classic Eurailpass - some good in one country, two countries, 3 countries, etc. And there are rail and drive passes where you take the train to a train station, pick up a car there and drive thru the countryside to another train station, return the car and take high-speed trains to another location and perhaps drive again) - anyway here are some great sites for helping get a fix on a rail and or railpass trip: www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and excellent IMO European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of itinerary suggestions, rail maps, etc.
I think kids that age would love to take an overnight train and there are hundreds of these every night linking two far removed cities so you can relocated quickly.

You have been to Paris before -- but the kids haven't. Most teenagers I've known have LOVED Paris - so IMO cutting Paris short would be a shame.

You could rent a a large apartment, or 2 small ones in the same bldg to economize. Both on your accommodations and on food/snacks.

Also remember - the more traveling around the more expense, especially true for a large group. I'd try for 14 days 'on the ground' in Europe and pick two major cities/rent apartments. London/Paris, London/Rome, Paris/Rome -whatever sounds best. Then use each city as a base for a couple of day trips.

This will save you a TON of money over moving place to place to place and having to get 3 hotel rooms in multiple cities.

Oh - w/ nine of you you may have to get 4 hotel rooms in some cities.

But then again, flats sleeping 9 are very few and far between. There are some large homes for rent - but two smaller apartments or university housing are good options.

I believe most rentals, especially during high seasons, require a week's stay. That may not be possible in any case, with all the moving around in this itinerary.

I would limit yourselves to London and Paris. Rent an apartment in Paris for a week and take daytrips out of the city.

Or do London, then fly to Rome and rent an apartment there and do the same.

If we stay in London longer for a home base. What would be a few good day trips. If we rent a flat for a week, maybe we even stay overnight somewhere then come back to the flat since it is a flat fee for the week. Any suggestions. The tickets to Dublin are so cheap. Is it crazy to try and do that?

And thanks again. You all have been very helpful.

The tickets to dublin are cheap - but dont forget time and cost to get to the airport, sitting at the airport, checking into hotels, cost of hotels...I wouldnt recommend it.

Some good day trips:
- Hampton Court
- Bath
- Canterbury
- Oxford
- Cambridge
- Greenwich (not out of London but something a bit different for the day)

Oh and Stonehenge/Salisbury

Dublin's not so great as a city just to go and pop in for a day, but is better visited as the capital of Ireland and a place to visit as part of a larger trip to Ireland.

Jamikins forgot Windsor, with the excellent eponymous castle and nearby Eton College, which isn't far from London at all. If you go to the castle, find out at a manned ticket booth if you can combine your train ticket (from Paddington or Waterloo) with a ticket to the castle. Saved us 3.50 GBP each off the castle entrance fee and enabled us to jump the preposterously long line.

Also, Dover and the white cliffs and the very interesting Dover Castle is now a very convenient day-trip because you can take the high speed line from St. Pancras to Dover and get there in less than 90 minutes.

And since you're traveling with a panoply of young people, make sure that for London you go to the Days Out Guide website and look up the 2for1 offers and print out every voucher you conceivably could want. Check my name on this board and in some other thread I explained how to take advantage of the discounts.

Do NOT get a London Sightseeing Pass or similar nonsense. The list of no-admission-fee museums for London is long (Science, V&A, National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, Tate Modern, Imperial War Museum, Natural History -- that's just a partial list) and some attractions that charge will participate in the 2for1 deal I described above (Tower, Cabinet War Rooms, Hampton Ct. Palace). Another good resource is Londontown.com, which has tourist walk suggestions, show and concert listings and more.