mzadnerb

I am helping with a charity fundraiser with the theme "A Night In Little Italy". Could someone translate that phrase into Italian for me so that we can use it on the invitations? In advance, Thanks for any help!!

Ann1

Una Notte In Piccola Italia

BATUFFOLINA

Actually the correct translation is: UNA NOTTE NELLA PICCOLA ITALIA.
Or you can also consider Little Italy as the NEw York quarter, so it could also be translated as UNA NOTTE A LITTLE ITALY

sicula

"una serata" is a better choice than "una notte". "Serata" means evening as opposed to night and is often used in conjunction with charitable events. The only way I can think of that would convey the idea of Little Italy in standard Italian would be to use the word for neigborhood, i.e. "quartiere". Thus, "una serata al quartiere italiano" or "an evening in the italian quarter". You might want to try the Italian Language Forum on About. Com for a more definitive answer from native speakers.

Ann1

Batuffolina you are totally incorrect. If you say in Italy, it's in Italia. If you say in Florence, it's a Firenze. Then if you say you live on Via Corso, it's in Via Corso. If you say your home it's a casa. When you're mentioning a place, it's in, a, in, a in the order. In Italia, a Firenze, in Via Corso, etc. And Sicula, if the actual title is night, I think it should be translated as is. Otherwise you confuse things. I understand what you're saying. There are many translations that differ from the actual English, but when you're doing a theme in America, it should be a literal translation.

Holly_uncasdewar

Chill out, Ann.

LVSue

Two points: if I were doing this in French, I would say "Une Soiree," not "Une Nuit." However, I think Una Notte would be more easily comprehensible to non-Italian speakers than Una Serata. (Remember Bella Notte from Lady and the Tramp?)

It seems to me that the "in"/"nella" question depends on whether Italia when modified by Piccola would take an article (la). It seems to me that it would, in which case "nella" would be the preposition.

However, if it is referring to a part of town, perhaps "alla" would be more appropriate (though it's not very romantic just to leave the name of that section of town in English).

Alice_Twain

Ann1: Your translation is not in italian, on the other hand. Ok, I can understand what you mean with that phrase, but still it's not poroper Itlaian. yoi may have some knowledge of the Itlaian language, just sa well as I have some knowledge of the English language, but when it comes to translating in the most correct way I always trust the mothertongue available (in this case Batuffolina, sicula and me), you should do the same: not that our translations might be,m in the worst case, totally misguiding, in the best case have a rather strange ring, something that says "This line was not written by a mothertongue".
Now let's analyze your translation: "Una notte in piccola Italia". "Notte", to an Itlaian, sounds more like "that part of the 24 hours when you sleep", so not a time for party. Also remember that "night" and "notte" are not perfect translations one of the other: "night" in English has a more extensive meaning, it starts early, as it gets dark; in Italian "notte" refers only to the small hours, nobody would say "buona notte" (unless he is actually gong to sleep) at 10 pm, that still "sera" (evening). Serata, on the other hand, refers specifically to a nighttime party, that takes place from 7 pm to well after midnight. "In Piccola Italia", on the other hand, is just grammatically wrong, because in this specific case the Itlaian language requires "preposizione articolata" and not just a "preposizione semplice". You may say "una serata in Italia" if you just referred to the whole Italy (nations' names do not require the article). yet, if you add an adjective before the name, you have to add the article, and therefore it becomes "nella piccola Italia" (capital letters as in my example). If you are referring to the NY quarter, than you have to substitute the preosotion "in" with the propeosition "a", but you are suoposed not to translate "Little Italy", which in Italy is known as "Little Italy" and not "Piccola Italia" (here I disagree with Batuffolina), so the translation should be "Una notte a Little Italy" (again capital letters as in my example).

So:
- "Una notte nella piccola Italia", or
- "Una notte a Little Italy".

And, please, do not try to sell me that your translation is simply literal: it's basically wrong, not literal: translating with a bad grammar is not translating literally, it's just a bad grammar. My English gramma is far prom perfect despit the fact that I have been studying this language for 17 years, your Italian grammar is far from perfect too: face it.

Therese

My mother tongue is English, and I speak Italian (well, though not fluently). "Piccola Italia" just sounds bizarre to me, from both the English and the Italian perspectives, so I'd definitely stick with Little Italy (assuming you really are trying to evoke an Italian quarter of a north amercian city---lots of towns have a Little Italy, and not Italy itself).

"Notte" also sounds strange, sort of like there will be rooms with beds available, but then there's the problem of non-italophones' unfamiliarity with the "serata".

I think I'd stick with "A Night in Little Italy", just as it is. Your target audience knows exactly what you mean.

mzadnerb

Thanks to everyone who responded. The fundraiser is for the Cerebral Palsy home. Dare I ask if there are other charming Italian phrases that we might want to decorate with? If so, I would appreciate both the Italian and English since I have no knowledge of the Italian language (except what I am learning here!) Again, thank you in advance for your help.

gail

I'd be careful while looking for "charming Italian phrases" here unless you have someone reliable who can confirm that they are indeed "charming" and not something one would utter when cut off in traffic in Rome.

Alice_Twain

Check out the lyrics of Ivano Fossati's song "Una notte in Italia" http://www.host17.org/basilero/fossa...rni/notte.html. I don't have time to translate them, right now, but these are granted not to be something you might as well scream at some rekless driver in Rome ^_^

Ann1

Alice: Boy are you nasty. I was correcting Batuffonina on the in and nella. I was correct on that. All I was saying is if you are translating something here in America where most people don't understand Italian, if it's translated this way most people will pick up what it says. If you had read my message completely, you would have seen that. I said...the correct translations are different in many cases, but for this situation I think it should be the literal and most easily recognized. Someone that doesn't know the language at all will not recognize the correct translation.

Alice_Twain

The fact that you do not understand Greek allows me to use bad Greek grammar? If I do not understand VGreek, you may as well put a few greek letters toghether, regardless of wether they forma word: after all they are decortive! No way: if you want to translte something you do it the right way, or just don't. ando your "translation" was not a translation at all, lest of all a literal translation. It was what might have produced Babelfish! A bundle of grammatically wrong near-nonsense.

Ann1

I think your postings speak for themselves.

jenviolin

mzaDnerb - I would use the Italian Alice gave you (I love the word 'serata', anyway) in boldface, and an English translation below it in italics or not bold. Even people who don't understand much Italian can get all mushy when they see Italian, so use it!
I agree that a bad translation can really pull the hairs on the back of your neck, and that some people get the pulls worse than others. I get very nasty about bad translations but I try hard to stay civil on-line...

EnglishOne

Out of interest, I looked up the babelfish translation. "una notte in poca Italia" hmmmmmmm...

BATUFFOLINA

Forgive me Ann1 but i AM italian so allow me to tell you that I know BETTER than YOU my own language, so dont come here and teach me how to speak my own language, ok? I have explained already that the sentence can be intended in 2 ways and Alice who is italian too came to the same conclusion. Are you italian too Ann1??? I dont think so, so plese avoid these outbursts of high italian knowledge when they are most of all wrong. I remind you that "Via Corso" as you have stated is incorrect too, because CORSO is a larger and wider street than VIA. There is Corso Vittorio, Corso Italia, but NOT Via CORSO (but Via DEL Corso, a famous shopping street in Rome), as you have improperly stated. Do you think that your OWN translation UNA NOTTE IN PICCOLA ITALIA was grammatically correct? "In Piccola Italia" is WRONG. You should say: NELLA PICCOLA ITALIA. So chill out and dont criticize or correct native speakers when your knowledge isnt evidently that of a native speaker.
Little Italy is also a quarter in New York and in Italy we dont say "I have been in New York and I have seen Piccola Italia". People would just DONT understand also because we have maintained the english term. As we dont say: "I have been to COLLE DEI BOSCHI in Los Angeles". What is Colle dei Boschi? A literal translation of HOLLYWOOD!!!! HA HA HAAAAAAA, give me a break! Who the hell do you think would understand if we translated EVERY english term in Italian???
Another example who would make italians members laugh: how do you say Ann1: "A night in Beautiful Nun's Tower" or "A night in Tor Bella Monaca" (popular quarter in Rome). We would crack ourselves up if you'd say so!
I said that there were two different translations according to the way in which you take the terms "Little Italy", that's all.
Sicula and Alice are RIGHT because they are italian like me: the term "night" can be intended as "serata" too.

Uniamoci cari ragazzi e ragazze italiane di questo forum contro chi fa il saputello. Non c'e' cosa che mi faccia piu' inc...are di quelli che vogliono sapere piu' di noi e dicono poi un sacco di fregnacce.

Ann1 how do you translate FREGNACCIA?

travelbear

I don't speak a word of Italian, but this thread held me my attention like a long lost relative at a family reunion. While the tenure leaned toward the aggressive at times, overall I think this thread illustrates what makes this board so great. You not only get the the observations of those who have been, but also those who are. In this way, the comparison and contraction offers a little window into what you might really expect.

LVSue

Ann: "Alice: Boy are you nasty." Alice was nothing if not diplomatic and gentle. Consider this statement that you made: "Batuffolina you are totally incorrect." It's no wonder Batuffolina, a native Italian, went batty! Even I could tell she was right and I don't speak a word of Italian! (but I did look up Italian prepositions)

Travelbear, I agree: it's an interesting thread.