travellingmom3

I will be travelling by train from the Zurich area to Paris mid-December. I am seeking guidance in the Eurail system - how to find schedules, best fares etc.

Thanks.

Dukey

There are at least three-four TGV Lyria services a day from Zurich to Paris.

the trip takes approximately 4.5 hours.

You can get schedules on the SNCF railsite or using another site such as www.sbb.ch (click on the "en" version at the top)

If this is the ONLy rail trip you will betaking you do NOT need a railpass and depending on when you get to Switzerland you could probably wait until you arrive in-country to buy the tickets/seat reservations.

Palenque

there are various fares on those Lyria TGV trains Dukey mentions - so-called 'global fare' similar to an airline - so early bird does get the worm - i'd look at site Dukey gave sbb.ch and see if you can nab an online discount but if only regular fare is available then just buy it in Switzerland and forget the hassle of doing it online - but you may be able to save some bucks if you can get a discounted ticket, but these often sell out weeks in advance IME - to learn oodles about the 'Eurail system' i'd advice these info-packed sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com. BTW there is no 'Eurail system' - there is a Eurailpass you can use on trains that run all over Europe but which belong to the national railways of each country - the name Eurail only applies to Eurailpasses, which are like Dukey says not for you as you are not traveling enough nearly on trains or at least it seems. Cheers.

Palenque

along with sbb.ch - Swiss Federal Railways site try also www.tgv.com and www.voyages-sncf.com - the French rail sites that however can be really impossible for many fodorites it seems to actually make a booking so try sbb.ch first IMO

travellingmom3

Thanks so much for the links. All I was coming up with were Eurailpass sites and not schedules. The info sites are great too. I have one more questions. One of the TGV trains arrives at Bassel (sp.? sorry if that's wrong) and then there is 5 minutes until the train leaves for Paris. Is this cutting it too close? And one more...is it worth spending an extra $80.00 to go first class?
Thanks so much.

Pvoyageuse

One of the TGV trains arrives at Bassel (sp.? sorry if that's wrong) and then there is 5 minutes until the train leaves for Paris. Is this cutting it too close?


It is Basel and 5 mn should be enough.


And one more...is it worth spending an extra $80.00 to go first class?
No.

Michael

I do not know your exact dates, but I tried Dec. 15 on the SNCF site and could not get any information. Then I tried Dec. 12 and got a price of 55€. So this may be a PREM ticket available only 91 days in advance.

travellingmom3

Michael - thanks so much for your information. My date actually is December 12th and that's a great price. I will explore this more.

Palenque

Is it worth an extra $80 for first class - IMO use the same criteria to train travel as to your other travel choices - do you stay in the cheapest hotels or pay $100-200 more to stay in comfort - do you eat at McDonalds or pay $100 or more for a nice restaurant? McDs can feed you perfectly well... use the same criteria IMO for train travel - and i know this is a minority position on this board but after having used a first-class railpass for like 100 separate trips i can attest that there is a world of difference between the classes, even on modern trains like TGVs - more seat space - esp nice for tall or big folks, more rooms for luggage, etc. you often can get a window and an aisle seat in 1st class - in 2nd class it's always two by two, etc. But whether it is worth it is up to you and your travel means. Apply IMO the same criteria to a several-hour train ride as to your hotel and restaurant choices, etc.

Now to me i would not spend the extra $80 simply because my travel budget don't allow it - i rarely go to restaurants but use snack stands, supermarkets, etc. and stay in budget hotels and B&Bs, etc. But if i had the funds going first-class on trains would be well worth it to me (i do go first class because i always have a Eurailpass and if over 25 it's always first class and the way i travel the pass is always a tremendous deal for me)

In a recent post i said that a cheaper online discounted ticket in Italy would only be 20 euros cheaper than a full-fare one you could buy once there and was upbraided with the comment - 'that's 20 euros that could be better spent elsewhere' - and then not much later this Fodorite talked about spending more than 100 euros a person on a restaurant in Venice - where they could have got a decent meal for half that and spent the extra 50 euros p.p. elsewhere. And it turned out they had rarely even taken trains at all, and i suggest that anyone who says there is no difference between the classes just has not ridden trains much or never in first class (this is quite a different issue than saying $80 more ain't worth it, however)

Anyway whether first-class is worth it or not is a very subjective matter IMO

Passerine

Five minutes is possible but, as a Basel resident and very frequent user of the train system, I would try for a 10 minutes between connections unless the tracks are very close to each other.
Basel train station can be very crowded and hectic, esp. at rush hour or during school holidays when there are tons of groups travelling (always fun to fight through several groups of about 40 kids in each, all with luggage and ski/snowboard gear).

Whether the extra for first class is worth it is really up to you. We like a quiet train ride and first class is usually quieter (groups tend to travel in second class). But first class TGV doesn't get you any additional services--no meals or drinks served at your seat and included in the price of your ticket.

It's worth it to me, but it's obviously not worth it to pvoyageuse. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you.

kleeblatt

Took the TGV from Arth-Goldau to Paris and back last summer. It was on time and easy. 5 min. should be enough for layover time. Ask the conductor which platform you are arriving on in Basel and which you need to take for the TGV. This will help you prepare for your train change.

I travelled 2nd class to Paris and got horrible seats on the way over. We had no window and were facing the wrong direction. Yuck! If first class guarantees seats facing forward and windows, I might just pay the extra 80.--

Palenque

there are first-class TGV seats facing backwards - those with a table in between the two seats facing each other - but in first class the train car IME will likely have empty seats that are up for grabs and you can easier re-located to one facing forward, unlike 2nd class which market pricing of the discounted online tickets practically assures a packed train car.

Passerine

5 min. should be enough for layover time.

Not necessarily. We took a train from Zurich back to Bsel last week-end Zthat arrived on track 2. A TGV was leaving from track 14 or thereabouts.

If you look at the station map and see were track 2 is and you have to get to track 14 or so during rush hour, 5 minutes will be cutting it very tight. And Basel is in the middle of some very ambitious track and station upgrades (tram line tracks are also being upgraded), which means trains have been delayed (we sat for a few minutes near the Muttenz train station). There were track changes on both our departure and arrival, so what the railway web sites tell you may or may not be accurate for any given day.

My observations are based on lving in Basel and taking the train from SBB to places in Switzerland, France or Germany on a weekly basis. IMO, given the way things are at the station currently (and will be for the near future), 5 mins is cutting it very fine.

Man_in_seat_61

I agree with Passerine. Even Swiss trains can arrive a minute or two late, and you have to find the next platform and walk there. If you were catching a walk-up every-30-min train I'd say fine, buyt you're catching a TGV with tickets only valid on that specific departure, I'd allow longer, maybe 20 minutes.

Palenque

That Swiss trains run like clocks in being exactly on time is a fallacy IME - yup can often be a few minutes late so hop an earlier train to have more than 5 minutes in major station like Basel SBB

Dukey

As to First vs. 2nd.

First may or may not be less crowded. When i took the train from Zurich to Paris two weeks ago the train was basically empty upon departure from Zurich (this happened to be a timing which used two TGV trainsets coupled together so there were plenty of seats) but by the time we got to Strasbourg the train appeared to be completely full.

A little more room available in First (2 + 1 seating) as a rule.

I honestly don;t know what to say about the 2nd class seats that didn't have any windows unless those seats were located in one of those "compartment" areas that adjoin the 1st Class seating area and have the smaller than usual windows.

Whether or not the extra money for 1st is 'worth it' seems to depend on the individual and the particular tastes involved.

I've given up on trying to help people 'decide' because no matter what I say I aways get slammed by somebody so good luck with your travels,Travellingmom

travellingmom3

Dukey,
Thanks for your reply. It's helpful to know that at least on your trip to Paris the train wasn't overly full leaving Zurich. It's always trickier for me when I have one of my children with me than when I'm alone. I understand the "given up trying to help people decide" piece. Since I haven't traveled by train in Europe I wasn't sure what to expect. Everyone's been so very helpful and I think I'll save my money for a nice dinner when we get to Paris!

kleeblatt

"I honestly don;t know what to say about the 2nd class seats that didn't have any windows unless those seats were located in one of those "compartment" areas that adjoin the 1st Class seating area and have the smaller than usual windows."

Hi Dukey, glad to hear your train ride went so well. Really glad.

Our trip to Paris wasn't so good. Believe me, there are some seats without direct windows. They can be found between teh windows in second class (since the windows all have space in between.) We had much better seats on the way back.

Palenque

TGV 2nd class seats with no windows? wonder if you can tell which seats have no views by seating charts and can you when buying be sure you have a window - no window would definitely to me be worth a lot to ride first class, where i am sure every seat has window views. Dukey - i understand what you mean by getting slammed for whatever one says - and to me that is also a beauty of Fodor's - contrary opinions - that said Dukey has proven to be an invaluable resource on rail travel due to his extensive European rail travels - heck i heard he even drove a steam train in England a few years back. Not that is really being intrepid IMO! Cheers