DennisF

We'll be traveling about England in mid-July and I'd like to know what to expect in traveling by train. <BR><BR>We will tour London for 3 days and then set out for Bath for a day, the Cotswolds for 3 days, York for 2 and Edinburgh for the final 2 days before returning to London for our flight back to the U.S. Whew! Makes me tired to just write about it, but the 3 couples in our group all wanted to see different places.<BR><BR>My question is about the ease and convenience in train travel between these destinations. In looking at train schedules, it looks like we will only have about 10-15 minutes to make most of our train connections. Is that going to work or will we have to wait the 2 or 3 hours for the next train?<BR><BR>I would really appreciate any advice.<BR>

Ellen

Yikes, it certainly does sound exhausting. The Cotswolds are especially difficult to "do" via train; Bath and Edinburgh would be no problem. Have you considered renting a minivan instead of taking trains? You'd save money and have a lot more flexibility.

DennisF

Yes, we'll be hiring a driver to take us around in the Cotswolds. <BR><BR>Any ideas about the train connections?<BR>

Ellen

Um, did you understand that I was suggesting that you forget the trains and rent a car? <BR><BR>I know nothing about train connections, we drove everywhere last summer. Didn't go to Scotland, but did a loop through Oxford, Cotswolds, Stratford, Wales, and Bath. It was a little hairy at first getting used to driving on the "wrong side", but in the long run much more relaxed than dealing with train schedules.

sarah

Last week, we went on the bullet between Kings Cross Station (London) and York (the train continues to Edinborough). It was so easy. The high speed train runs every 15 or 20 minutes, though I think the express runs a bit less frequently. Never mind though. The express was 1 hr. 45 min for the 200 mile trip. The one that stops more doesn't take significantly longer. We didn't have reservations - just got to the station and walked on. We did reserve seats for our return, as we knew when we'd be going. This helps as the trains get full, so, if you know your schedule, I'd secure seats in advance. It was wonderful. Lots of leg room, comfortable seats, no smoking, snack bar, restaurant. It might have been cheaper had we reserved in advance, but I couldn't figure out the Great Northern Railroad web site, and we didn't know exactly what our times would be. After we returned to London, we had to walk only about a block to get to the Thames link, which took us to Gatwick. Again, the train was there waiting for us. We never had a problem with the tube or the trains in Europe. They run quite frequently and are a great way to go. <BR>York was great, by the way, and you'll find your two days full.

Patrick Wallace

try www.railtrack.co.uk or www.thetrainline.com for timetables

Julie

Hi Dennis,<BR><BR>If you use http://www.railtrack.co.uk you can put in where you are starting from, where you are going, and what time you would like to depart, and it will give you itineraries that include changes of train. The itineraries it will give you are ones that are reasonable to make. <BR><BR>A lot of the train stations are pretty small places with a handful of platforms, and electronic signs that tell you when the next train is coming and what platform its going to be on. As long as you don't have too much luggage or anyone who is not up to par physically, it shouldn't be any problem to get from one platform to another. <BR><BR>I think taking the train and hiring a driver for the Cotswolds should work great. Sounds like a great itinerary - wish we could go with you!<BR><BR>Julie

DennisF

Thanks to all of you! <BR><BR>Just a mention to one of the early posts, I did consider renting a car instead of train, but we have 6 persons and with luggage, there's no way! Thus, I chose train between points and walking in most cities, but Cotswolds presented a problem that caused me to engage a car for hire to do day tours. <BR>I'm still concerned about 10 min. transfers in small town stations with 6 people and lots of bags. <BR>It will be an adventure though right?<BR>Thanks!

Kathy

Just wondering if you've considered purchasing a Britrail Pass. We had something called a Heritage Pass which allowed us 7 days of unlimited travel for something like $75. With the pass some of the attractions in London were either free or reduced admissions. Check it out. Was a real savings. Also, we had absolutely NO trouble using trains from Manchester, Leeds, York, London, Bath... and NO trouble with the tube. Wish the USA was so convenient!

Kay

We trained to/from Cotswolds and many other places with no problems. I look at the online sites to find the options (any through trains at an earlier/later time, connections that do have a "back up" in case the arriving train is late, etc.) and printout to carry along a list of my options for the days we expect to travel--I find that easier than trying to check the local schedule as it only contains the trains I am interested in and helpful in that if we realize we are running late we have our personalized timetable to look at for options.<BR><BR>As for the luggage, I think train travel is only practical with a wheeled carryon suitcase and back/daypack apiece. You may need to go down/up stairs to get between platforms and older rail cars have stairs. If you have "lots of bags" that you cannot easily carry up/down then train travel with connections can be a struggle.

john

Dennis, do enjoy your trip but do what you can to reduce luggage. I restrict my luggage to one 20in. x 10in. wheeled suitcase and a daypack. With the right packing technique, I can get two weeks work the clothing packed.

greg

10 min to change train in small station is really not difficult if the train arrives on time and all have taken heed to travel light. But not with "lots of luggages" <BR><BR>The small station is likely to be two platform construction connected by an underpass. So depending on where you change the train, count on having to drag the luggage thru underpasses or overpasses.<BR><BR>As others said, car floors are not necessarily at the platform level also count on having to hoist the luggages into the car.

Paeony

I think the suggestion about inputting your journey into one of the already mentioned web sites is a good one. They'll only provide acceptable connections and will also let you know of any Sunday engineering works. Personally I wouldn't allow just 10 minutes connection - trains are freqently delayed (of course, now I've said that all your trains will run on time!). Also, all the steps and finding the right platform can be confusing when you are in a rush unless the station has only two tracks (but your journey doesn't sound like it'll include truly small stations).<BR>Have a good trip and if at any time you get frustrated with the railways - just remember that we British do too!

DennisF

You've all been really helpful. Thanks! As for my "Lots of Luggage", I pack very lightly, even on 2 week European trips. It the ladies in my family that insist they need to take so much. Thanks to all of you.<BR>

David

I want to emphasize reducing the size of your lugguge. Most stations have only flights of steps - no elevators or escalators. You will be dragging whatever lugguage you have at least up two flights of steps and also will have to lift them onto the train. Some trains have very small doors once inside the car, and most cars have little or no room for large pieces of luggage. I don't think you will have many problems catching a train, it seems they run quite often. Once on board with your luggage stored, its very enjoyable. Once again though - I'm not sure of the age or health of the individuals you'll be traveling with, but heavy luggage can be a big burden. Beleive me I know, I just got back and had to travel with two Industrial size pieces of luggage. It was a pain, but we were in England for two weeks and my wife loves to shop. One Hotel Porter actually said that luggage that heavy should be "against the law". I looked at my wife and said "tell me about it" . I don't suggest you saying the same thing. Oh, well, we survived.

DennisF

Thanks David. I really appreciate the advice. I am VERY concerned about all the luggage and the stairs, as our party of six includes our senior citizen parents. Having never traveled abroad, they will be most likely to OVERPACK! I'll use your post to try to convince them to economize on space AND weight of what they pack. Thanks.<BR>

greg

Dennis,<BR>for those who travelled all their life, perhaps on car and plane, and always had access to porter service, will be very difficult to change the habit on packing. We have travelled with many such folks. They need a concrete example of how his can be done.<BR><BR>The difficulty of large luggages at train stations as well as find a place to keep them have been discussed. Also, keep in mind that unless one stays in modern hotel, there aren't elevators either. Yes, the hotel employees can help you with luggages if they can, but at very small B&B's, there is often just one person minding the check in/out process and if he is busy, you'll have to wait before he can help you with luggages.<BR><BR>How does one pack light? I do not believe this comes naturally to all. Rick Steves travel skills video series currently broadcasted over US on PBS give good idea.<BR><BR>I think the novice packers pack as though they are on a car vacation, way too much unique combination of cloth, shoes, shirts. For example if you insist on unique matching cloth, with 3 pairs of shoes, 3 pairs of pants, and 3 paris of shirts, you only get out 3 different combination. But if you choose 1 pair of shoes that matches all other pants, 2 pairs of pants that match 2 pairs of shirts, you get 4 combination using less than half the volume and weight! They also carry too many what-if clothes, what if gets too cold, what if it rains, what if they need to dress nicely and uniquely, etc and the volume skyrockets.

DennisF

Thanks Greg. I do hope to catch the Rick Steves episode.