zooey91

We have a 10 day trip planned for November: three nights London, four nights Edinburgh, one night Cambridge, two nights London.

We're planning on taking the train both directions, and buying a 1st class Britrail pass.

Since the return will be the Eastern route, as we're going through Cambridge, would it be worthwhile to take the Virgin train through Glasgow on the way up? I realize it would add an hour to the journey, but I'm wondering if the Western scenery & Virgin 1st class would be worth adding a bit of variety to the train travel on our trip.

Thanks.

Jim

janisj

First of all - have you priced the BritRail Pass against point-to-point tickets? Very often individual tickets are quite a bit cheaper than a BR Pass.

The scenery up the west side isn't very good - not as good as on the eastern side anyway. (Actually, the scenery on the east side isn't that great eitheruntil after you quite far north).

TimS

I did a quick check using the Journey planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk and found General Standard Avance tickets from 25-30 GBP for either London-Edinburgh or Edinburgh-Cambridge.

zooey91

Interesting. When pricing on Rail Europe's website, the 1st class 4-day flexi-pass was cheaper than 2nd class point-to-point tickets (Heathrow Express, London-Edinburgh, Edinburgh-Cambridge, Cambridge-London).

But their prices were much higher than the general standard adance tickets on the national rail cite ($172 for London-Edinburgh 2nd class, which is over 80 GBP).

Sounds like Rail Europe is only selling unrestricted tickets to gullable folks (me?!) will buy a britrail pass.

Thanks for the tip!

Jim

ben_haines_london

Yes: RailEurope may offer the best fares for France, Eurostar, Thalys, and Belgioum, but othwerwise national rail lines, and agents, often make the best offers. I would seek fares from two US agents
Budget Europe Travel Service, phone 800-441-9413 or 800-441-2387, site http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/
and
Euraide of Florida, E-mail [email protected], phone
at the Florida office 941/480-1555, site http://www.euraide.com,
before I booked.

Ben Haines, London
[email protected]

rogerdodger

Just a thought. I do enjoy rail travel in Great Britain and I also use the Britrail pass. Now, just for consideration, think of taking the train up to Carlise on the western side, then the local(2nd class only) to Glasgow via Dumfries. I have done this a couple of times and it was much fun for me, however, as I mentioned, I like riding the rails.

PalQ

Yes if you want to go the discounted ticket route and book far in advance for the cheapest prices you can save over a BritRail pass - but if you want flexibility - able to hop any train you want and in first class i've never seen a train without empty seats in first class - then the BritRail pass compares very well to walk up fares, which are often sky high.
I love flexibility - you would not have to decide whether to take the scneic West Coast line one way and the equally but differently scenic East Coast line back - sponteneity to me is worth the price.
And first class on British trains, especially on trains like Virgin Cross Country is extremely plush compared to standard class - definitely worth it to take Virgin - you get tons of free food in first class - really tons and booze, tea, coffee, drinks too. Not so in standard class. I find standard class seats on most trains very cramped - i'm fairly tall. first class is way more comfy. And i don't believe the dirt-cheap online tickets in first class are as available as standard class though i'm not sure of this. Oh well that's just my opinion. I've had first class BritRail passes yearly since the 70s and can say that to me first class is definitely worth the extra money. Apply to train travel the same criteria as you would to your hotel is my motto. (In which case i'd be going second class, however.)

zooey91

Thanks, this is all very helpful (but I'm still not sure what we'll do).

Our plans are fairly firm, though, so advance purchase may be worth it. However, the Britrail pass would allow us to decide to change our Cambridge plans closer to the last minute. Nevertheless, I don't know if it's worth the extra $$, though, as buying our tickets now, even in first class, could cut our costs in half.

So is Virgin's first class that much better then GNER's? Enough to justify the different scenery and extra hour?

As far as Glasgow, I'm only referring to changing trains there, not going as a final destination, in order to see a different part of the country and experience Virgin trains (we may take a day or evening trip from Edinburgh during our 4 nights).

PalQ

Virgin trains first class is vastly superior to GNE - i've ridden both many times and GNE's not bad but you only get some 'tea or coffe?' and some shortcake type small snack. Virgin gives a veritable 4-course meal - well not a meal but they keep bringing out the food. That said i wouldn't take the route just for that but for different scenery - note the East Coast line between Newcastle and Edinburgh was recently voted by some UK magazine UK's Most Scenic Rail Line - even though i consider the two Scottish West Highlands lines infinitely prettier, the East Coast line - at least this part is very nice.
Note that food is not promised with first class BritRail passes or tickets i believe but i've always gotten it on both these lines as they try to entice business types onto the train and off the plane. The West Coast line, once infamously bumpy, has just been basically relaid in one of the costliest UK rail projects ever.
Still on UK trains you coffee or tea cup will always be rattling - unlike on practically any fast train on the Continent i've been on. But first class on UK trains i find superior to first class on the Continent - to me it's a symbol of Britain's legendary class oriented society, true or not, so there is a huge difference between the classes on these type trains. First class is very plush - standard class often like a Greyhound bus, oft with empty tin cans, newspaper and other detritus strewn about. But of course 2nd class will get you where you're going at a much lower price.

PalQ

If you can marshall all your travel to Edinburgh and back in a 4-day period note that the 4-straight day pass at about $325 p.p. is about $70 cheaper than the 4-day flexipass in first class.

zooey91

We'd need the 8 day if we got a consecutive pass. We know we'll be traveling to Edinburgh on the 6th, part way back on the 10th, the rest of the way on the 11th.

A 4 day flexi-pass would cover these three trips, as well as a day trip or one way on the Heathrow Express. (or two day trips or both ways on the Heathrow Express if we decide to stay an extra day in Edinburgh and not stop on the way home, which is what would be nice about a pass vs. advance tickets).

Thanks again.

rogerdodger

Don't forget thr 25% discount on Btitrail passes for use in November, December and January.

zooey91

I wasn't aware of the discount.

This is a special type of pass? Could you reply with a link?

Thanks!

Jim

rogerdodger

Jim, no, not a special pass. You get a 25% discount on any of the Britrain passes. You can only purchase them from 9/1/06 to 12/19/06 for travel between 11/01/06 2/28/07.
I order my passes from Rick Steves, so just type that in and follow the instructions. Let me know if you have a problem with it.

zooey91

Great tip! Thanks!

PalQ

Rick Steves charges a $15 mailing fee i believe whereas others like RailEurope (www.raileurope.com) and BETS (800-441-2387) don't - I've ordered from BETS for years and highly recommend them for their expertise at answering questions. Prices are the same anywhere but S&H can vary - like Steves i believes tacks a $15 mailing fee on.
yes the 25% discount for travel Nov thru end of Feb makes the pass a much better deal.

wilees

If you book way in advance you can get London to Edinburgh for £12.50 one way.

Bargin.

zooey91

So the 25% discount applies regardless of where you buy the pass from?

Back to the original question/thought:

I just discovered that we'd need to change trains in Glasgow if we want to go London-Edinburgh via Glasgow, so that's got us rethinking things a bit. If we really want to see some different scenery, and experience Virgin's first class, it seems like we ought to spend the night in Glasgow.

Otherwise we'd have to schlep a bit, in addition to adding 45 minutes train time to the journey.

Hmmmm.

rogerdodger

Regarding the 25% discount. One would think so, however, the reason I purchased from Rick steves was due to the fact that he was up front about it. As far as going via Glasgow or not is a hard call. I like different scenery, so I would, then the local commute train between Glasgow and Edinburg.

PalQ

Yes the 25% off is regardless of where you buy the pass - it's a BritRail decision that all agents, including RailEurope would automatically charge on the same computer system most have. Same for the 3rd thru 9th passenger 50% off of what the first two folks buy (an even better deal of course from Nov-Feb) and a free kids pass for anyone under 16.
Most passes also qualify for one British person to accompany the passholder free