Top Tourist Mob Scenes in Europe
May 2nd, 2016, 02:50 AM
#41
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Tourists planning an itinerary see a picture of the Cinque Terre like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...0460371%29.jpg
and they aren't prepared for finding this:
http://www.italiantribune.com/cinque...d-of-tourists/
It's only fair to warn people what they'll have to endure if they really want to see the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel in high season. It's true that both at the Louvre and in the Vatican Museums there are rooms that are pleasantly uncrowded even at the busiest times, but tourists who are in Rome for the first time and don't know if they'll ever be back don't really have the Etruscan Gallery at the Vatican Museums on the top of their must-see list.
I do warn people of crowds, and they have indeed got worse in the last five years or so. I used to tell people that there wouldn't be a long queue to get into St. Peter's Basilica if they went late in the afternoon. It's no longer true. The established wisdom is that buying a ticket to the Colosseum online allows you to "skip the line". Now, even with a ticket, you can wait an hour or more under the broiling August sun, because they often reach their limit of 3000 people inside at once.
The advice to visit famous museums in prime tourist magnet cities in the off season is excellent, but many people are constrained to take their holidays in the summer. It's also good advice to search for "hidden gems" instead of "must sees" if you have no choice but to visit these cities in high season.
I myself look for the kind of alternatives suggested by Traveller1959. When we went to Scotland a few years ago, I really wanted to see Loch Lomond. My father, who grew up in Glasgow, talked about it often. My preliminary research suggested the town of Luss, but a little digging revealed that it was a tour bus magnet. I looked at a map and decided to visit Tarbet, a bit further up the loch, not having read anything about the town. There was almost no one there, with a beautiful park on the lake, a boat dock that offered lake excursions, a great view of Ben Lomond, and a little tea room where we were the only guests.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...0460371%29.jpg
and they aren't prepared for finding this:
http://www.italiantribune.com/cinque...d-of-tourists/
It's only fair to warn people what they'll have to endure if they really want to see the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel in high season. It's true that both at the Louvre and in the Vatican Museums there are rooms that are pleasantly uncrowded even at the busiest times, but tourists who are in Rome for the first time and don't know if they'll ever be back don't really have the Etruscan Gallery at the Vatican Museums on the top of their must-see list.
I do warn people of crowds, and they have indeed got worse in the last five years or so. I used to tell people that there wouldn't be a long queue to get into St. Peter's Basilica if they went late in the afternoon. It's no longer true. The established wisdom is that buying a ticket to the Colosseum online allows you to "skip the line". Now, even with a ticket, you can wait an hour or more under the broiling August sun, because they often reach their limit of 3000 people inside at once.
The advice to visit famous museums in prime tourist magnet cities in the off season is excellent, but many people are constrained to take their holidays in the summer. It's also good advice to search for "hidden gems" instead of "must sees" if you have no choice but to visit these cities in high season.
I myself look for the kind of alternatives suggested by Traveller1959. When we went to Scotland a few years ago, I really wanted to see Loch Lomond. My father, who grew up in Glasgow, talked about it often. My preliminary research suggested the town of Luss, but a little digging revealed that it was a tour bus magnet. I looked at a map and decided to visit Tarbet, a bit further up the loch, not having read anything about the town. There was almost no one there, with a beautiful park on the lake, a boat dock that offered lake excursions, a great view of Ben Lomond, and a little tea room where we were the only guests.
May 2nd, 2016, 06:36 AM
#42
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Strangely, hordes of tourists concentrate on a few places in Italy like Cinque Terre and San Gimignano, while you find in Italy at least 1,500 abandoned villages, all of them full of historical buildings and some of them quite romantic.
http://www.parallelozero.com/reporta...villages-442-0
What about an "abandoned-village-itinerary" for a trip to Italy?
Would be something different than the usual "Rome-Venice-Florence-Amalfi Coast-Cinque Terre-Lake Como-in-ten-days" trip which is so often requested here.
http://www.parallelozero.com/reporta...villages-442-0
What about an "abandoned-village-itinerary" for a trip to Italy?
Would be something different than the usual "Rome-Venice-Florence-Amalfi Coast-Cinque Terre-Lake Como-in-ten-days" trip which is so often requested here.
May 2nd, 2016, 07:47 AM
#43
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Some of those abandoned villages don't look safe to visit. Walk in the middle of the street!
For someone who will be in Lazio (the region where Rome is located), in the vicinity of Tarquinia there is a very suggestive abandoned medieval village called Norchia, across a ravine from a little-known (and not supervised) Etruscan necropolis. This is really worth the visit. When we were there, we didn't see a single person except a shepherd with his sheep near the car park. You have to walk some distance on a mule path to reach the necropolis, then you have to climb a bit on the other side of the ravine to reach the village, abandoned in the early 15th century. I've read that the inhabitants got on the wrong side of the pope and were exiled, but I've also read that the village was abandoned because of malaria. (Both explanations sound plausible.)
For someone who will be in Lazio (the region where Rome is located), in the vicinity of Tarquinia there is a very suggestive abandoned medieval village called Norchia, across a ravine from a little-known (and not supervised) Etruscan necropolis. This is really worth the visit. When we were there, we didn't see a single person except a shepherd with his sheep near the car park. You have to walk some distance on a mule path to reach the necropolis, then you have to climb a bit on the other side of the ravine to reach the village, abandoned in the early 15th century. I've read that the inhabitants got on the wrong side of the pope and were exiled, but I've also read that the village was abandoned because of malaria. (Both explanations sound plausible.)
May 2nd, 2016, 08:00 AM
#44
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I have been to Arles and Avignon in peak season and they weren't horrors. Just busy.>
Those cities have a much larger area than small places like Bellagio so the crowds can diffuse a bit - I rather like a town that has many folks out at night, etc but in the day to be in a Bellagio - ain't worth it for those looking for the dreamy 'fishing village' they've read about where the only angling done today is for tourists' euros.
Disneylandesque and again I rather like that but do not think many except Irish and IMD really care for.
Those cities have a much larger area than small places like Bellagio so the crowds can diffuse a bit - I rather like a town that has many folks out at night, etc but in the day to be in a Bellagio - ain't worth it for those looking for the dreamy 'fishing village' they've read about where the only angling done today is for tourists' euros.
Disneylandesque and again I rather like that but do not think many except Irish and IMD really care for.
May 2nd, 2016, 08:03 AM
#45
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Terrific photographs! They bring in mind those wonderful and absolutely mob-free Dead Cities in Syria. That was twenty years ago. In the last five years the term »dead city« has got a new meaning, I'm afraid.
May 2nd, 2016, 08:11 AM
#46
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As Irish pointed out
We are the problem. And because many of us visited these places when they were less crowded, in a way we are complicit in their popularity.
I hate crowds, but I am the problem.
We are the problem. And because many of us visited these places when they were less crowded, in a way we are complicit in their popularity.
I hate crowds, but I am the problem.
May 2nd, 2016, 08:11 AM
#47
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"Would be something different than the usual "Rome-Venice-Florence-Amalfi Coast-Cinque Terre-Lake Como-in-ten-days" trip which is so often requested here."
Let's keep in mind that majority of travellers , especialy from overseas,
visit Italy ( or some other destination in Europe ) once or twice in a lifetime.
Of course they wish to see the " hightlights" rather than the "abandoned villages".
It is mostly the frequent travellers who
have the privilege of exploring " different locations " and finding the " hidden gems".
Let's keep in mind that majority of travellers , especialy from overseas,
visit Italy ( or some other destination in Europe ) once or twice in a lifetime.
Of course they wish to see the " hightlights" rather than the "abandoned villages".
It is mostly the frequent travellers who
have the privilege of exploring " different locations " and finding the " hidden gems".
May 2nd, 2016, 08:29 AM
#48
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Most of those villages have fairly modern structures, and many of them don't look safe to visit. Watch out for falling shutters and precarious balconies!
In Lazio, near Tarquinia, there is a very suggestive abandoned medieval village called Norchia, with an equally abandoned Etruscan necropolis. You have to walk a little distance on a mule path to get there. First you descend into a ravine, where you can see the impressive Etruscan tombs on the wall of the cliff. Then you have to climb a bit on the other side of the ravine to see the village, which was abandoned in the early 15th century. I had read that the inhabitants got on the wrong side of the pope, who exiled them. But I've also read that they left because of malaria. Both explanations sound plausible. If you're in the area, it's really worth a visit.
In Lazio, near Tarquinia, there is a very suggestive abandoned medieval village called Norchia, with an equally abandoned Etruscan necropolis. You have to walk a little distance on a mule path to get there. First you descend into a ravine, where you can see the impressive Etruscan tombs on the wall of the cliff. Then you have to climb a bit on the other side of the ravine to see the village, which was abandoned in the early 15th century. I had read that the inhabitants got on the wrong side of the pope, who exiled them. But I've also read that they left because of malaria. Both explanations sound plausible. If you're in the area, it's really worth a visit.
May 2nd, 2016, 08:54 AM
#49
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Someone up thread mentioned the Pantheon being so crowded you'd need to be shoe horned in. I agree. I was in Rome for 5 days mid October and never did see the inside of the Pantheon due to crowds. Tried several times, but nope.
I am not a panic attack sufferer but the closest I've ever come to one was at the Spanish Steps. Which I did not even intend to go to, I reached them accidentally from the top when I was a bit lost. It was AWFUL. I don't understand how all those people could tolerate hanging out in that area. Or what for? What were they even doing? You could only see 12 inches in front of you. I got out of there as quickly as I possibly could.
I did not enjoy Rome much, but not because I disliked Rome. It was the crowds. I didn't give Rome a fair shake by going in mid October. I'll return someday but only in the off-est of the off season. As of now I hardly even feel like I was ever really there.
I am not a panic attack sufferer but the closest I've ever come to one was at the Spanish Steps. Which I did not even intend to go to, I reached them accidentally from the top when I was a bit lost. It was AWFUL. I don't understand how all those people could tolerate hanging out in that area. Or what for? What were they even doing? You could only see 12 inches in front of you. I got out of there as quickly as I possibly could.
I did not enjoy Rome much, but not because I disliked Rome. It was the crowds. I didn't give Rome a fair shake by going in mid October. I'll return someday but only in the off-est of the off season. As of now I hardly even feel like I was ever really there.
May 2nd, 2016, 09:13 AM
#50
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limmy, friends who were in Rome last Oct said the pantheon was empty early morning and at sunset.
I hope that will hold true in sept this year.
We are spending a few weeks in Puglia followed by a few days in Rome. I have never been there and will hate it if everything is as crowded as you say.
I hope that will hold true in sept this year.
We are spending a few weeks in Puglia followed by a few days in Rome. I have never been there and will hate it if everything is as crowded as you say.
May 2nd, 2016, 10:30 AM
#51
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Giverny was bad enough for me to say never again. I visited in late April. It was so overrun with tour groups you almost could not move. Istanbul and the Cinque Terre villages also among the worst crowds for me. I visited in late July when it was over 100 degrees every day of the trip. UGH!!!!
May 2nd, 2016, 11:41 AM
#53
"Let's keep in mind that majority of travellers , especialy from overseas,
visit Italy ( or some other destination in Europe ) once or twice in a lifetime.
Of course they wish to see the " hightlights" rather than the "abandoned villages".
It is mostly the frequent travellers who
have the privilege of exploring " different locations " and finding the " hidden gems"."
Danon, you nailed it! Unlike most Fodorites, we haven't been to Europe for the upteenth time, so we will be part of the crowds in popular tourist spots. We've been pushed shoved, and stepped on getting into the train at Jungfraujoch, and walking around Monet's House in Giverny -- but seeing/experiencing these places was worth the RUDENESS of certain tourists!
visit Italy ( or some other destination in Europe ) once or twice in a lifetime.
Of course they wish to see the " hightlights" rather than the "abandoned villages".
It is mostly the frequent travellers who
have the privilege of exploring " different locations " and finding the " hidden gems"."
Danon, you nailed it! Unlike most Fodorites, we haven't been to Europe for the upteenth time, so we will be part of the crowds in popular tourist spots. We've been pushed shoved, and stepped on getting into the train at Jungfraujoch, and walking around Monet's House in Giverny -- but seeing/experiencing these places was worth the RUDENESS of certain tourists!
May 2nd, 2016, 12:41 PM
#54
I think an abandoned village itinerary for a trip to Italy sounds wonderful. But when people come here looking for ideas of places that are off the beaten path, they are frequently chided by posters who say they don't understand why anyone would travel all the way to Italy (or whatever place they are asking about) without seeing the most famous and popular attractions.
I completely understand the appeal of sites that are less known and more atmospheric and always wonder why people are criticized for seeking them out.
I completely understand the appeal of sites that are less known and more atmospheric and always wonder why people are criticized for seeking them out.
May 2nd, 2016, 01:18 PM
#55
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I don't think that people should be cticized for what they are interested in ,
but it might be a bit puzzling to many posters if the the first time visitor to Italy wished to travell the distance and spend several thousand dollars just to visit abandoned villages and nothing else.
The country is so rich in history, art , architecture and beautiful scenery,
it seems reasonable to be enthusiastic about recommending its treasures to other
travellers.
but it might be a bit puzzling to many posters if the the first time visitor to Italy wished to travell the distance and spend several thousand dollars just to visit abandoned villages and nothing else.
The country is so rich in history, art , architecture and beautiful scenery,
it seems reasonable to be enthusiastic about recommending its treasures to other
travellers.
May 2nd, 2016, 01:39 PM
#56
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I think an abandoned village itinerary for a trip to Italy sounds wonderful.>
but when it becomes better known those abandoned villages may end up like the Cinque Terre - overrun with tourists seeking off-the-path gems. And what if Rick Steves trumpets them on telly and in his books?
BTW Rick Steves did NOT put the Cinque Terre on the travel map - for Americans maybe but the 5 Lands has been a tourist magnet since Roman times I believe.
Pompeii is an abandoned village I'd say... enough said.
but when it becomes better known those abandoned villages may end up like the Cinque Terre - overrun with tourists seeking off-the-path gems. And what if Rick Steves trumpets them on telly and in his books?
BTW Rick Steves did NOT put the Cinque Terre on the travel map - for Americans maybe but the 5 Lands has been a tourist magnet since Roman times I believe.
Pompeii is an abandoned village I'd say... enough said.
May 2nd, 2016, 02:52 PM
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We found parts of Rome to be extremely crowded last May, but we anticipated that and planned accordingly. We did not visit the Vatican. We rented an apartment iin Monti. We visited smaller museums and did a food tour in Testaccio. Minus a couple short excursions into tourist central, we steered clear of it and are doing the same in a couple of weeks. We like Rome, but we loved Umbria--in part because it wasn't overrun with visitors.
I think there is a middle ground betweenRome/Florence/Venice and abandoned villages--at least in Italy--but I think a lot of people convince themselves that the best path is the most worn one. I mean the herd can't be wrong, right? We try to find some balance in our trips, either by going in the off season or by picking destinations that aren't quite so popular.
I think there is a middle ground betweenRome/Florence/Venice and abandoned villages--at least in Italy--but I think a lot of people convince themselves that the best path is the most worn one. I mean the herd can't be wrong, right? We try to find some balance in our trips, either by going in the off season or by picking destinations that aren't quite so popular.
May 2nd, 2016, 06:39 PM
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" I think a lot of people convince themselves that the best path is the most worn one. I mean the herd can't be wrong, right?"
On the other hand,
desire( for some ,a lifelong dream ) to see the Colosseum, Venice, Duomo, the art of Michelangelo,
Bernini, Caravaggio, the Sistine Chapel , the riches of art, architecture and history
might really be what inspirers many travelers rather
than simply following " the herd."
On the other hand,
desire( for some ,a lifelong dream ) to see the Colosseum, Venice, Duomo, the art of Michelangelo,
Bernini, Caravaggio, the Sistine Chapel , the riches of art, architecture and history
might really be what inspirers many travelers rather
than simply following " the herd."
May 2nd, 2016, 07:09 PM
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I love visiting Versailles .. have been many times over 45 years or so.. but last time I went.. well its the last time I will go anytime between the end of May to mid October.
You could almost lift your feet up and have the crowds bear you along in the palace( or trample you to death if you fell).
I get why certain places are super busy.. and I am one that will wait in line if its something I want to see , I am ok with it.. I never jam pack my schedule so I can relax in lines and not be all stress about wasting time.
I think a first timer who chooses to avoid all crowds or lines is going to miss some wonders of the world.
You could almost lift your feet up and have the crowds bear you along in the palace( or trample you to death if you fell).
I get why certain places are super busy.. and I am one that will wait in line if its something I want to see , I am ok with it.. I never jam pack my schedule so I can relax in lines and not be all stress about wasting time.
I think a first timer who chooses to avoid all crowds or lines is going to miss some wonders of the world.
