corli33

"The difference between the US and other countries is, if you haven't had good service (in a European restaurant for instance), you don't have to tip, unlike experiences I've had in the US where you feel obliged to tip even if the server is totally disinterested and couldn't give a toss.>>"

Not true. If the service is bad here in the US, you do NOT have to tip at all unlike Europe where you pay higher taxes on a meal to cover the service even if it's lousy.

Padraig

corli33 wrote: "The poster was talking about if it makes one feel good to do something nice or reward somebody ...what you would be doing is harming someone. Two totally different things genius."

Does it make you feel good to distort an argument and adopt an insulting tone?

kerouac

What are these "taxes," corli33? I just explained that the service charge is a convenient fiction to protect the customer.

Hooameye

"Not true. If the service is bad here in the US, you do NOT have to tip at all"

My friend (American) lived in N.Y. State, now lives in Florida, I've had this conversation with him a few times, he and his friends/family regard tipping as compulsory for fear of being thought of as insulting or being accosted by the server or followed outside and involved in an argument. The reaction also bears out what some other American posters seem to feel about not tipping (or not tipping the right percentage) in the UK.

StCirq

<<he and his friends/family regard tipping as compulsory for fear of being thought of as insulting or being accosted by the server or followed outside and involved in an argument.>>

That's HIS issue, not the general public's.

Hooameye

"That's HIS issue, not the general public's."

He and lots of people like him (with his point of view) ARE the general public.

Lynn_Gibson

Good grief! This is an incredibly confusing issue. I am American, and I have owned and operated a restaurant in the USA. There have been two occasions recently in the USA where I got really bad service (inattentive servers, food brought out cold, etc.) and I DIDN'T LEAVE A TIP! I too, agree, that tipping is NOT compulsory here (although it is expected), but that doesn't mean that I have to fall into line when I get bad service.

I often "round up" when traveling in Europe (leaving the "round up" in cash) not because I have to but when service has been pleasant and good. I haven't been treated rudely ever in Europe because of the size of my tips.

avalon

But I have been treated rudely in the US when the tip didn't satisfy the server.In Houston , we had a bill for $700.00 for a company dinner at a place where all the server did was pour water, Left a $50,00 tip and was follwed out into the street and harangued because I didn't leave over $100.00 for him, He didn't do shite and didn't even deserve the 50! Gave all my NYC Citibasnk guests a good laugh!

kerouac

I was followed out on the street by a waitress in Los Angeles for an "insufficient tip."

111op

I know this is off-topic already, but out of curiosity, I typed "tipping in the USA" to see what I find.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travell...0316-8za2.html

"America is the land of bald eagles, apple pie, home foreclosures and tipping."

"The best tip about tipping in the US is to tip."

"Sure, it is un-Australian."

"Leaving a couple of coins with the bill and heading for the exit is not appropriate if the service was OK.

When in Rome eat spaghetti. When in the US tip."

Of course as I said, nothing is mandatory or even obligatory. Is brushing your teeth mandatory?

111op

Lynn_Gibson, since you ran a restaurant, I'd assume you'd presume that cold food is most likely not the fault of the waitstaff.

You should have complained to the chef, in my opinion.

corli33

"Does it make you feel good to distort an argument and adopt an insulting tone?"

You were being obnoxious and the one distorting. The woman was talking about doing something nice if it makes you feel good and you snidely said well how about not tipping if it makes you feel good.

corli33

"What are these "taxes," corli33? I just explained that the service charge is a convenient fiction to protect the customer."

VAT taxes.

111op

Next, I typed "not tipping in the USA for bad service" into Google and out comes this article:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...052.html?yhp=1

"Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends."

"Police charged them with theft since the gratuity was part of the actual bill. However, it is doubtful that the charges will hold up in front of a judge. The couple is scheduled to appear in court next month.

UPDATE: Theft Charges Dropped Against No-Tip Couple"

Question: Who wants to be like this couple?

111op

I read about two pages of this interesting FlyerTalk thread on not tipping for bad service in the US:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/dinin...-received.html

Personally I think that if service is really that bad, some complaint is warranted. I just think that it's passive aggressive to sulk the entire meal and then leave no tip at the end.

corli33

"But I have been treated rudely in the US when the tip didn't satisfy the server.In Houston , we had a bill for $700.00 for a company dinner at a place where all the server did was pour water, Left a $50,00 tip and was follwed out into the street and harangued because I didn't leave over $100.00 for him, He didn't do shite and didn't even deserve the 50!"

If you had a company dinner, the server would have had to do a lot more than pour water. Also, I find that gratuity is almost always included in the bill now, if there are more than 4 people, at least anytime I've had a company dinner and I live in Texas. Secondly, I've never had anyone run after me or chase me out in the street and harangue me for not leaving a big enough tip and I don't know anyone that has ever had that, even after all of my years of living in the US. If a waiter does this, they're not supposed to and a complaint should be made to management. Anyways, I'm sick of these whiny non-Americans on here complaining about tipping in the USA. It doens't matter what you think as it's not your country. Some countries are "tipping" countires, Iran for example. Others are not. If you go to a country that tips, respect the local custom or STAY HOME and shut up!!!

corli33

"Personally I think that if service is really that bad, some complaint is warranted. I just think that it's passive aggressive to sulk the entire meal and then leave no tip at the end."

Actually, I agree with this. If the service is that bad that I wouldn't leave a tip, I would just talk to management and complain.

corli33

""Police charged them with theft since the gratuity was part of the actual bill. However, it is doubtful that the charges will hold up in front of a judge. The couple is scheduled to appear in court next month."

I've heard of this too. As a matter of fact, at work we were talking about it and everyone said the same thing, it's a tip and they were under no obligation to leave one. Maybe there was automatic gratuity in with the bill and they didn't tell management to remove the gratuity and just walked out and didn't pay. Arrest though seems harsh and I don't see how it can hold up under the law.

111op

corli33, the excerpt I posted says charges were dropped.

But no matter. I agree with those who feel like they have to tip in the USA, even if service is "bad," but I was surprised by the number of people on that FlyerTalk thread and here who wrote that they'd not tip for bad service.

The thing is I just think that it's hard to define bad service. To me, service really needs to be *so bad* for me to even think about not leaving a tip, and even if that happens, I'm pretty sure that I'll want to talk to someone first.

A lot of things that happen in a restaurant have nothing to do with the waitstaff. As I said, if the food is cold, it's more likely the fault of the kitchen than of the waitstaff, in my opinion. The waitstaff shouldn't be penalized for something like this.

corli33

"the excerpt I posted says charges were dropped."

Oh, I didn't read that line. As I said, I didn't see how it could hold up.