Typical example of toffs' limited cultural hinterland.

Australia's wine industry goes far further back than Vietnam: Aussie white at two bob a schooner was the staple diet in every Yates's Wine Lodge from Blackpool to Birkenhead in the days British rock music ruled the world. Every aspirant group cruising between the record stores and guitar shops on an early 60s Saturday afternoon made sure they were well tanked up on it.

What you mean is: a <b> poncified </b> wine industry saps warlike spirit. Once the taste matters more than max inebriation for minimum outlay (Yates' Aussie white got you pisseder, faster for less even than Strongbow or Whitbread Gold Label), the rot sets in.

<i>We like lagers and ales, in particular, that are rich, complex and viscous tending to 8-10+%. So if you know anything available everywhere UK or in Cornwall or the Midlands, please point me to them.</i>

I have to say that, at least in London, the good stuff seems harder and harder to find. Lager seems to be king these days, at least as far as beer. Speaking with a bar manager friend, he said they just can't sell the real ales anymore, and his bar had basically flipped the representation - it might have been 4 ales, a lager or two, and a cider, but is now 3 or 4 lagers, an ale or two, and some cider.

<i>Belgium is all about microbrewers and overgrown microbrewers, even capable of taking over that awful stuff called Bud (why should they bother).</i>

Because lousy beer is where the profits are. European Bud, I mean Stella Artois, is InBev's flagship brand. The European mass-market beers like Stella, Heineken, and Carlsberg are not, IMHO, any sort of step up from Bud.

Flanneurs last post reads like a kitchen sink drama directed by Ken Loach.

It is a horrible insight into the grim life of those north of birmingham.

No wonder they're such odd looking types. Poor fellows. Never stoood a chance as apparently their mums were drinking Australian Turpentine whilst pregnant.

No wonder they think Ken Dodd's funny.

Stella and others are made here too by our largest boring brewer. Bud should not have made it out of St Louis Missouri, however the Belgians want to buy it for USD 49.9 Billion this week. Bizarre!

As for ales Chimay Blue is a benchmark for me along with a few of the other trappist breweries. There are 2 or 3 microbreweries here that are making good ales. None of them seem to be able to do a blonde as good as Leffe though. Leffe seems to make it on tap to some pubs in London.

I just wondered if there is anything new that is produced in the UK in the Belgian mould/style ?

Ken Loach? That southern ponce?

What does he know about real life?

Born halfway to Surbiton, educated at one of those places for dim public schoolboys, went into the BBC, keeps on filming Trotskyite fantasies about whatever nonsense the Toynbees are getting het up about this week.

And lives in Bath. BATH!!!!

Probably never seen a bottle of Whitbread Gold Label or South African sherry in his life. Closest he's ever been to the real world was listening to Brian Blessed's really rotten impersonation of a Scouse policeman in the early Z Cars.

Re Loach:

He was born in Nuneaton, which is north of Basingstoke and therefore grim.

He went to a Grammar School (which explains the chippiness and the muddled thinking.)

I expect he was quite the tippler of Cyprus Sherry and Sanatogen Tonic Wine, along with double diamond and a few light ales...

Maybe you should try some &quot;Bitter and Twisted&quot;.

It is made in Scotland and probably one the best beers from the famous Harviestoun brewery. It is finished by late hopping with Styrian Goldings, which gives it a sharpness like the twist of a lemon. A truly refreshing beer and strangely moreish. The result is a fresh natural tasting beer.

Bitter and Twisted (Harviestoun) is excellent - probably my preferred bottled ale - they sell it at the local supermarket.

I like different beers in differet weathers. In Summer I prefer more hoppy beers - e.g. Hopback Summer Lightning. In Winter, Ringwood Fortyniner , Fullers HSB (once Gales) and if available Fullers London Porter.

I have enjoyed (and I use the word advisedly)Chapel Down sparkling wine.

Yes this is a growing business out of Tenterden, Kent. Aggregate growth in England last year was about 300 acres of which they claim to have represented 120 acres. This is a winery that contracts others to grow and provide the grapes. Seems like relatively good value compared to some premium producers of sparkling wines in England.

Since you WILL insert gratuitous slams against Anheuser-Busch products (which I'd drink if very thirsty and it's free, and nothing else available) let me just say this in their defense:

The brewery is kept scrubby clean, and the Clydesdale stable is lovely and has stained glass windows.

Also A-B has been a very good employer for lots of people.

But they still produce absolute pish*

*This is a scottish term.

Is there anything new to report on Wine in England as we will be visiting England and particularly Cornwall this summer.

Yes the sparkling whites have got better and are now even more expensive than they were before.

Where have all the English advisors gone ? This is not a good sign. Maybe you should move to a post on Beers of England. Maybe wine has become too expensive as you say.

"sparkling whites have got better and are now even more expensive"

Well sort of. With the £ being hammered by the €, Champagne's getting to a ridiculous price. I remember buying it for 26/6d a bottle, which shows you how the world's gone down since the Summer of Love. Even on promotion, it's routinely at least 20 times that now. So English sparkling wine (virtually indistinguishable, soil, vinification and climate being identical to what you find round Reims) is now relatively better value.

And that really is about it. We're mostly drinking stuff with good bang for the pound. Which means the non-euro zone.

Is there anything new to report on Wine in England as we will be visiting England and particularly Cornwall this summer.>>>

You really do have to understand that wine producing in England is basically a rich man's hobby. It doesn't compare with what goes on in the major wine drinking regions.

Thus there aren't anything like the Napa Valley tours here. They would only take ten minutes.

A google produces the following:

http://www.camelvalley.com/

http://www.polmassickvineyard.co.uk/

But I'm not sure how bored I'd have to be to want to wander around someones back garden.

Now Cornwall has it's own fabulous drink - Cider. Go to a cider brewery if you want a taste of cornwall (or to these pubs):


http://www.ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index....de_to_Cornwall - 26k -

Thanks for the update on cider C_W, we will definately try a few when we visit this summer.

Really do. It can be a wonderful drink (not to be confused with the cheap crap sold in supermarkets, or drunk by tramps)

Just took a look at this years Decanter Magazine awards in preparation for forthcoming visit to Tuscany. I had to click on the tab for England and there we can see more progress.

http://www.decanter.com/worldwineawa...wwa_search.php

The cost of producing small qantities of sparkling wine shows through but maybe there is some chance that a few good pinot noirs will evolve over time.