BTilke

Actually, when I was treated at a doctor's office in central Germany (well off the tourist radar) there WAS a little can for "coffee break" tips for the office staff. We were happy to contribute since the doctor charged me absolutely NOTHING for the consultation and painkiller injection (she said the paperwork bother wasn't worth it).

Moreover, of course many shop staff etc get a "tip"--only it's called a commission. As do many professionals--I know I was paid bonuses at one European agency based on my billable hours (and the amount billed). They gave a high falutin' name for it, but essentially that's what it was--a tip based on my "customer service" and the amount of the bill. It just happened to be paid quarterly rather than after each service.

CEOs of international corporations apparently need MILLIONS of euros in "incentives" and "performance target bonuses" (another high falutin' type of tip) to do their jobs--so why shouldn't a helpful waiter/waitress be entitled to a few coins?

PrincessOfPenguins

BTilke: we read the guidebooks, and typically gave up to 10%, even in places where it was indicated that service was included. The exception was that one place where the service was horrible and the waiter was cheeky enough to think he deserved anything from us...

ira

I love listening (or reading) the ranting of Social Darwinists who, from the vantge point of comfortable jobs with guaranteed salaries, paid vacations and holidays, sick leave, health insurance, pensions and BONUSES, decry the concept of tipping as unjust and offer as a solution to low wages -"go get a better job".

It's enough to make a person vote Democratic.

david_west

How to tell Aussies form Kiwis: Get them to say “fish and chips” . Aussies say it like their colonial masters, and holders of the Ashes; kiwis say “fush n chups”.

Incidentally an Aussie tips about as often as one of their batsmen walks!

j_999_9

I'm new here. Are david west and anthony always so obnoxious?

david_west

I'm normally quite nice

AnthonyGA

A commission isn't a tip, because it is not at the discretion of the customer.

A tip is a separate transaction between the customer and an employee of the company serving him, independent of the company. It's called a tip in a restaurant; in other parts of the business world, it's called a felony.

I don't really tip much at all these days. Sometimes I tip a haircutter if he or she does a nice job. Sometimes I round up a taxi fare, as much to speed up the transaction for both of us as to give a tip, though.

There's something fundamentally dishonest and unethical about tips.

webin

I think tipping should be voluntary and not required from a customer. I agree with Anthony that this practice has created the vicious cycle which he described. But why do we tip the waiter for taking our order, or for bringing the food to our table >>> that's his job!

Do we tip the waiters to 'Insure Proper Service'? Are we afraid they'll do something foul with our food before it is served? Are we afraid that they will not give you that glass of water you asked for? Or delay your order, or throw away your order slip and say he's sorry...?

I guess the practice of tipping has truly created this ugly practice among the waiters. My question is: Who started this darn practice of tipping anyway? The Americans?

ira

> It's called a tip in a restaurant; in other parts of the business world, it's called a felony.<

So what's an "honorarium"?

What about paying someone's "expenses"?

Tere

tipping should be voluntary and not required from a customer. I agree with Anthony that this practice has created the vicious cycle which he described. But why do we tip the waiter for taking our order, or for bringing the food to our table >>> that's his job!

Do we tip the waiters to 'Insure Proper Service'? Are we afraid they'll do something foul with our food before it is served? Are we afraid that they will not give you that glass of water you asked for? Or delay your order, or throw away your order slip and say he's sorry...?



That's exactly my point of view! Totally agree with you!!

j_999_9

OK, someone has to throw a rope around Anthony, etc., with all the talk about felonious tipping.

A tip is a simple reward that passes between customer and employee, as a way to recognize the employee's competence.

To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a tip is just a tip.

saltymuffin

Thanks Josser for the
"Hairy Harry is going to marry merry Mary".

I have never seen that before. I am one Canadian who will admit to saying all those words differently. They sound similar but definitely not identical. (Although Mary and Merry is VERY close.) I can't imagine a Canadian pronouncing Harry like Hairy. . .

Hairy Potter?? No.
Marry Poppins? No.

I don't think that Mary Christmas quite works either. But that is close.

But I do NOT get this aboot thing.

How do Americans think we say "a boot"? Can they not hear the difference between "a boot" and
"about"? I agree with the thought that it must just be in contrast the the aBAWWWt that they say . . .

About rhymes with stout, pout and tout. Does it sound like stoot poot and toot when we say these words?

And Canadians Do say Eh - we just don't hear it. But it is not every second or in wierd non-sensical places like movies seem to do to portray Canadians.

rickmav

saltymuffin - where in Canada are you from?

lippincottfarm

I just got back from Merida, Mexico where I travel to two to three times per year. I was sitting at my favorite yarda bar when I actually looked at the bill and was still very, very sober. I had noticed the work propina on bills before but thought it was the tax. I asked my waiter what propina meant, and he looked at me and started laughing. I said this is a tip. He said, well - - a service charge. I said -- same thing. He said yes. Well, I've been double tipping for years and didn't know it and believe me, I've spent hundreds of dollars in this place eating and drinking. He told me he wondered if I was ever going to catch on. Needless to say, I won't be double tipping in the future, and I told him I expected a couple of free drinks in the future. He just laughed. Sometimes we Americans are so used to adding in a tip, we never think otherwise.

AndrewDavid

Neil, Every Ozzie we met begged us not to tip (of course we purposely avoided meeting you) as waiterstaff was well paid. We did in fact meet waitstaff who were paid A$25/hr.

Andrewdavid

Neil_Oz

Andrew, I purposely got out of town that week just to be on the safe side.

As for a connection between bonuses and tips, I don't see it. Prior to my well-deserved retirement a goodly part of my pay consisted of bonuses, but they were handed over reluctantly by my employer after hours of argument over my achievement (or not as the case may be) of a set of agreed objectives. While the whole exercise was a time-wasting nonsense, the money certainly wasn't (directly) extorted from my customers.

Come to think of it, I do remember a couple of jobs in which customers would shower hams, bottles of Scotch and the like on us every Christmas as "gestures of appreciation". Rubbish. The largesse was outright bribery, paid to ensure that the giver wasn't relegated to the bottom of the in-tray in the coming year. That's closer to a tip, I think.

"...an Aussie tips about as often as one of their batsmen walks!"
- Having spent a lifetime in almost complete ignorance of the rules of cricket (know nothing, care less) I thoiught batsmen ran rather than walked, but if David's comment means what I suppose it means, I plead guilty, Your Worship.

AnthonyGA

Why do waiters require "a simple reward" for doing what they are already paid for, if doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, migrant farm workers, ditchdiggers, garbagemen, and postal workers do not?

Linda431

"Why do waiters require "a simple reward" for doing what they are already paid for, if doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, migrant farm workers, ditchdiggers, garbagemen, and postal workers do not?"

Because in the U.S. at least, the system is set up that way. Waiters are paid below the legally mandated minimum wage. I'm not sure of the figures (someone will weigh in here) but it used to be about $4 an hour.

The IRS, knowing that waiters pocket their tips, have started assessing them an average tip. They have to pay taxes on whatever that average tip is, say 12 to 18% depending on the restaruant.

The only way to fix it is to not let the restaurants opt out of the minimum wage law and force them to pay their staff like everybody else.

I don't see that happening any time soon.

saltymuffin

rickmav,

I grew up in Alberta, lived in Ontario for 10 years, and am now back in Alberta. I don't hear a difference between first language English speaking Canadians in Ontario and Alberta (aside from how people pronouce city names - Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver). I also spent a year in the US - that is when I really started to "hear" the difference between Canadian and US accents. Americans don't seem to have much variety in their vowel sounds, a's, e's, i's and o's can all sound the same.

I think that Canadians don't notice their accent because they hear American accents so much on TV - they sound normal. But how you say things, and what sounds normal can be two different things. The differences are subtle, but much more obvious in person than on TV. When you run in to an American on the street you can hear that they are American - so they must be able to hear the same thing in reverse.

I never would have thought I said "eh", but it was sure pointed out to me when I was in the US - I do it, once in a while.

A big one is Sorry and Sari. Canadians don't pronounce these two words the same. I remember seeing a clip of an accent coach trying to teach Canadian actors US accents. He was explaining that "Americans say sorry like Sari - what Indian women wear" and they were all sitting there nodding and ahhh-ing. It was really funny. I have heard that script writers will actually change dialog for Canadian actors to avoid words that make a Canadian accent obvious.

AnthonyGA

Just about all English speakers in North America speak the same flavor of General American English. The regional differences are tiny and of roughly equal magnitudes. If someone has a "Canadian accent," nobody is likely to identify it as such unless they've heard the identical accent many times. Overall, with GAE, although you might notice that another speaker is "not from around here," that's usually as far as it goes, unless you've had previous substantial exposure to the regional variations you are hearing.

It's nothing like the situation in the UK, where accents can differ dramatically from town to town and even from street to street.