'The Americanisation of Cricket!'
Apr 17th, 2007, 02:51 PM
#42
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Gardyloo:
The one place we can be absolutely sure DIDN'T inspire Starbucks was the nasty sub-postoffice that was at 84 High St when Starbucks first set up in Seattle.
Even then, there hadn't been a coffeehouse on the site for over 300 years, and no-one ever bothered drawing this odd idea during the few years it survived (or at least if they did, the picture never made it to the Oxford local history library).
Sometimes the home of lost causes, sometimes Oxford's been centuries ahead of its time. Either way, timing has rarely been its strong suit.
The one place we can be absolutely sure DIDN'T inspire Starbucks was the nasty sub-postoffice that was at 84 High St when Starbucks first set up in Seattle.
Even then, there hadn't been a coffeehouse on the site for over 300 years, and no-one ever bothered drawing this odd idea during the few years it survived (or at least if they did, the picture never made it to the Oxford local history library).
Sometimes the home of lost causes, sometimes Oxford's been centuries ahead of its time. Either way, timing has rarely been its strong suit.
Apr 17th, 2007, 04:38 PM
#43
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AlanRow, I wasn't comparing baseball to soccer; that would be stupid. But the internationalism of the "American" baseball leagues compare quite favorably to that of cricket or rugby. Baseball is a very popular game in lots of places that were never US colonies, and is THE MOST popular sport in several of them, such as Cuba, Venezuela (the only South American country where baseball tops soccer), and the Dominican Republic. It's also bigger than soccer in Japan and possibly in Korea.<br>
It is more correct to say that modern cricket, baseball and rounders both derived from older bat-and-ball ancestors. While cricket has been played in some form for centuries, the recognizably modern game -- with overhand bowling, for instance -- is much more recent. Baseball actually has significantly older formal leagues -- the County Championship wasn't formalized until 1890, while baseball had an organized professional league in 1871 (and many people would be equally surprised to learn that Australian Rules football has an older formalized code of rules than soccer does, 1858 to 1863).<br>
As for the origin of Starbucks, it lies not in Vienna but in Italy, where the founders observed espresso bars in the early 1970s. That's the official version, at least; in actual fact, espresso bars were hardly unheard of in Seattle as far back as the early 1960s. Starbucks was by no means the first; probably the Last Exit was. And long before that, were the espresso bars where THEY got the idea, in San Francisco, New York, Boston, and yes, London, Melbourne -- anywhere Italians settled in large numbers. The Two I's, anyone? Espresso Bongo?
It is more correct to say that modern cricket, baseball and rounders both derived from older bat-and-ball ancestors. While cricket has been played in some form for centuries, the recognizably modern game -- with overhand bowling, for instance -- is much more recent. Baseball actually has significantly older formal leagues -- the County Championship wasn't formalized until 1890, while baseball had an organized professional league in 1871 (and many people would be equally surprised to learn that Australian Rules football has an older formalized code of rules than soccer does, 1858 to 1863).<br>
As for the origin of Starbucks, it lies not in Vienna but in Italy, where the founders observed espresso bars in the early 1970s. That's the official version, at least; in actual fact, espresso bars were hardly unheard of in Seattle as far back as the early 1960s. Starbucks was by no means the first; probably the Last Exit was. And long before that, were the espresso bars where THEY got the idea, in San Francisco, New York, Boston, and yes, London, Melbourne -- anywhere Italians settled in large numbers. The Two I's, anyone? Espresso Bongo?
Apr 17th, 2007, 04:40 PM
#44
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AlanRow, I wasn't comparing baseball to soccer; that would be stupid. But the internationalism of the "American" baseball leagues compare quite favorably to that of cricket or rugby. Baseball is a very popular game in lots of places that were never US colonies, and is THE MOST popular sport in several of them, such as Cuba, Venezuela (the only South American country where baseball tops soccer), and the Dominican Republic. It's also bigger than soccer in Japan and possibly in Korea.
It is more correct to say that modern cricket, baseball and rounders both derived from older bat-and-ball ancestors. While cricket has been played in some form for centuries, the recognizably modern game -- with overhand bowling, for instance -- is much more recent. Baseball actually has significantly older formal leagues -- the County Championship wasn't formalized until 1890, while baseball had an organized professional league in 1871 (and many people would be equally surprised to learn that Australian Rules football has an older formalized code of rules than soccer does, 1858 to 1863).
As for the origin of Starbucks, it lies not in Vienna but in Italy, where the founders observed espresso bars in the early 1970s. That's the official version, at least; in actual fact, espresso bars were hardly unheard of in Seattle as far back as the early 1960s. Starbucks was by no means the first; probably the Last Exit was. And long before that, were the espresso bars where THEY got the idea, in San Francisco, New York, Boston, and yes, London, Melbourne -- anywhere Italians settled in large numbers. The Two I's, anyone? Espresso Bongo?
It is more correct to say that modern cricket, baseball and rounders both derived from older bat-and-ball ancestors. While cricket has been played in some form for centuries, the recognizably modern game -- with overhand bowling, for instance -- is much more recent. Baseball actually has significantly older formal leagues -- the County Championship wasn't formalized until 1890, while baseball had an organized professional league in 1871 (and many people would be equally surprised to learn that Australian Rules football has an older formalized code of rules than soccer does, 1858 to 1863).
As for the origin of Starbucks, it lies not in Vienna but in Italy, where the founders observed espresso bars in the early 1970s. That's the official version, at least; in actual fact, espresso bars were hardly unheard of in Seattle as far back as the early 1960s. Starbucks was by no means the first; probably the Last Exit was. And long before that, were the espresso bars where THEY got the idea, in San Francisco, New York, Boston, and yes, London, Melbourne -- anywhere Italians settled in large numbers. The Two I's, anyone? Espresso Bongo?
Apr 18th, 2007, 02:18 AM
#46
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Cricket in the U.K. some serious questions - how broad is the fan base or is it mainly in the ethnic groups from those former colonies or is it popular like football (soccer) on a wide scale.>>>>>
There are all sorts of cricket matches and the popularity varies. The basic professional game is the County Championship – the four day game – played over the summmer in a league format. It’s widely followed but not well attended (it’s played on weekdays during the daytime – so mainly retired people watch it). The one day cups and leagues are very popular and the finals are sell outs.
All England games are sell outs. Well they were – but after yesterday’s abject performance….
Cricket sold its soul to Sky TV so it’s only covered on satellite TV.
Do many kids play cricket?>>>>>>>
A fair few – mainly in the Independent school sector. Cricket requires a lot of space and that space has to be well-kept. Lots of state schools can’t afford this. Also in every town there are cricket clubs and they almost all have a colts arm for boys.
I know when i went to Soccer World on Carnaby Street recently there was a Rugby World up top but no Cricket World>>>>>>
It’s not that kind of game – people don’t really buy replica tops etc.
would i be correct in saying in the UK it's first football, then rugby, then cricket as the three favorite spectator and participatory sports where folks root for teams?
The most popular participation sport by far is angling. After that your order is about right. Most sporty types will play rugby or football ion the winter and cricket in the summer. I only play cricket for a beer team.
There are all sorts of cricket matches and the popularity varies. The basic professional game is the County Championship – the four day game – played over the summmer in a league format. It’s widely followed but not well attended (it’s played on weekdays during the daytime – so mainly retired people watch it). The one day cups and leagues are very popular and the finals are sell outs.
All England games are sell outs. Well they were – but after yesterday’s abject performance….
Cricket sold its soul to Sky TV so it’s only covered on satellite TV.
Do many kids play cricket?>>>>>>>
A fair few – mainly in the Independent school sector. Cricket requires a lot of space and that space has to be well-kept. Lots of state schools can’t afford this. Also in every town there are cricket clubs and they almost all have a colts arm for boys.
I know when i went to Soccer World on Carnaby Street recently there was a Rugby World up top but no Cricket World>>>>>>
It’s not that kind of game – people don’t really buy replica tops etc.
would i be correct in saying in the UK it's first football, then rugby, then cricket as the three favorite spectator and participatory sports where folks root for teams?
The most popular participation sport by far is angling. After that your order is about right. Most sporty types will play rugby or football ion the winter and cricket in the summer. I only play cricket for a beer team.
Apr 18th, 2007, 02:42 AM
#47
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Last time I checked the roster of the NHL team in my city there were exactly three Americans...all the rest were Canadians and Finns.
Americans suck everytime they play foreign basketball teams because they actually grasp the value of teamwork, unlike the prima donna ball-hogs over here.
Baseball, in any form whatever, is dam*ed boring unless you watch it in person. And drink.
I'm having a hard time thinking of a "US sport" played only in the United States.
But then, I didn't realize we had Canada (or anywhere else) as a colony...
Americans suck everytime they play foreign basketball teams because they actually grasp the value of teamwork, unlike the prima donna ball-hogs over here.
Baseball, in any form whatever, is dam*ed boring unless you watch it in person. And drink.
I'm having a hard time thinking of a "US sport" played only in the United States.
But then, I didn't realize we had Canada (or anywhere else) as a colony...
Apr 18th, 2007, 03:24 AM
#49
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>>Why do the British play these funny sports that are only played in Britain and its ex-colonies?<<
I was thinking this might have something to do with timing: in relation to the social pressures that produced codified rules for games and systematised competitions (which depended on industrialisation giving people more money and less disposable time, and railways). Most games were codified in Britain in the mid to late 19th century. By that time the US had its own similar processes under way.
Actually, the "funny sports" concerned are really only cricket. Others seem to have followed both the flag and trade: both soccer and rugby to Latin America, for example. And the popularity of baseball outside the US seems to follow patterns of relationship with the US that were as near as dammit colonial at the time it got going.
I was thinking this might have something to do with timing: in relation to the social pressures that produced codified rules for games and systematised competitions (which depended on industrialisation giving people more money and less disposable time, and railways). Most games were codified in Britain in the mid to late 19th century. By that time the US had its own similar processes under way.
Actually, the "funny sports" concerned are really only cricket. Others seem to have followed both the flag and trade: both soccer and rugby to Latin America, for example. And the popularity of baseball outside the US seems to follow patterns of relationship with the US that were as near as dammit colonial at the time it got going.
Apr 18th, 2007, 06:24 AM
#50
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<<So why does the US have so many sports that are only played by Americans and it's colonies like Canada?>>
Okay, I thought this was a joke, how about you let us know Alan.
Just for interests sake, I believe about 1/3 of NHL players are NOT from Canada or USA, and of the remaining 2/3 only 1/4 are American. There are some great European players that are not in the NHL, but it is dominated by Canadians (not saying other countries don't dominate in international hockey, I am referring to the NHL rosters). We have the weather for it!!
Another great sport that we love in Canada is Lacrosse, the NLL is the professional league in N.America. What a great sport to watch. ACTION.ACTION.ACTION.
Okay, I thought this was a joke, how about you let us know Alan.
Just for interests sake, I believe about 1/3 of NHL players are NOT from Canada or USA, and of the remaining 2/3 only 1/4 are American. There are some great European players that are not in the NHL, but it is dominated by Canadians (not saying other countries don't dominate in international hockey, I am referring to the NHL rosters). We have the weather for it!!
Another great sport that we love in Canada is Lacrosse, the NLL is the professional league in N.America. What a great sport to watch. ACTION.ACTION.ACTION.
Apr 18th, 2007, 07:06 AM
#53
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Um, where on earth did the Sushi thing come from?
Googling "Americanisation Cricket" turns up the real story - an column by the BBC Sports Writer Jonathon Agnew.
It's regarding the the new regulations for one-day internationals and the new substitutes rule.
Quote "However, I really do not believe that we want to see a situation in which you have an Americanisation of international cricket with a "bowling team" and a "batting team".
Googling "Americanisation Cricket" turns up the real story - an column by the BBC Sports Writer Jonathon Agnew.
It's regarding the the new regulations for one-day internationals and the new substitutes rule.
Quote "However, I really do not believe that we want to see a situation in which you have an Americanisation of international cricket with a "bowling team" and a "batting team".
Apr 18th, 2007, 07:11 AM
#55
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That makes sense. There was some controversy in the 2006 Ashes in england when bowlers would leave the field “injured” after their spell and be replaced with specialist fielders. It’s legal, but not really in the spirit of the game. Not really cricket in fact.
If you tried to feed my team sushi at tea time - well put it this way, you'd better be wearing your box.
If you tried to feed my team sushi at tea time - well put it this way, you'd better be wearing your box.
Apr 18th, 2007, 08:00 AM
#56
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>>Lacrosse is only played by schoolgirls here - in a sort of St Trinians way.<<
I distinctly remember a contemporary of mine at Cambridge played lacrosse. But then, he'd been to Manchester Grammar and became chairman of the National Westminster Bank, so maybe that doesn't count.
I distinctly remember a contemporary of mine at Cambridge played lacrosse. But then, he'd been to Manchester Grammar and became chairman of the National Westminster Bank, so maybe that doesn't count.
Apr 18th, 2007, 08:07 AM
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audere,
It is impossible for me to consider either NASCAR or poker an actual sport (raises hands to deflect incoming BudLight empties)...
Grand Prix racing, no problem. Contract bridge, perhaps, but it would fall under the "Baseball" category.
It is impossible for me to consider either NASCAR or poker an actual sport (raises hands to deflect incoming BudLight empties)...
Grand Prix racing, no problem. Contract bridge, perhaps, but it would fall under the "Baseball" category.
