I’ve tried to read all the posts on this board about using the TGV but I’m still a bit confused/hesitant. Here’s our tentative data:

* arriving CDG via Delta at 9:05 am Wednesday, September 28
* taking TGV to Dijon and picking up car
* driving to and staying in Beaune that evening
* driving on south for several days
* returning car to Dijon and taking TGV back to Paris (Gare de Lyon) on Wednesday, October 5 and staying a few days (5th arron.).

Thanks to everyone’s suggestions I was finally able to fumble my way around the SNCF website. Unfortunately, the only train from CDG to Dijon doesn’t depart until evening. I found trains leaving at 11:54, 13:04 and 14:34. Obviously we will want to get on to Dijon/Beaune as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Although I have about a hundred secondary ones, here are my most pressing questions:

1. What is the earliest TGV we can realistically expect to catch from Gare de Lyon, assuming a 9:05 am arrival to CDG? We will take a taxi from airport to station.

2. Should we spend the extra money for refundable tickets, if only for peace of mind? or should we just wait and get tickets when we get to the station? Considering the cost of the trip, a few extra euros one way or the other won’t really matter.

3. Just what the heck is a “reservation” and do we want one?

Thanks for any assistance, and sorry if these questions have already been answered over and over.

A reservation is a booking for a specific seat on a train at a specific time on a specific date. Standard train tickets in France and some other European countries are valid for two months and allow you to get on any train (whether it has empty seats or not). If you reserve, a seat will be set aside for you on a specific train, but your ticket is still valid on any other train though there is no guarantee you'll have a seat.
TGVs are different in that reservations are compulsory and all TGV tickets are for a specific seat on a specific train. If you pay the full fare, your ticket can be used on another train, subject to seats being available.
From Paris to Dijon, there are some ordinary slow trains as well as TGVs. There's one at 1227, for example, which gets to Dijon at 1515 - reservations are optional for this train. I doubt whether any of the trains will be full on a Wednesday in late September: even if all the TGVs were full for some strange reason, you could still get to Dijon on the slow train.

Sometimes the SNCF site requires thinking outside the box. I don't know why it won't show you all the possibilities for getting from CDG to Lyon, but it doesn't. If, however, you break the trip up into two segments, it will show you that there are TGVs from CDG to Lyon at:

9:45, 10:10, and 13:11.

Then, there are trains from Lyon to Dijon at:

11:55, 12:05 (that'd be cutting it too close), and 16:16

If you got really lucky, you might catch the 9:45, in which case you could be in Dijon at 13:47. You'd have to race to the TGV station at CDG, though, and make a 5-minute connection in Lyon. Realistically, you'd catch the 10:10, but then you'd have a 4-hour layover in Lyon. I think taking the slow train is probably your best option, though it will require going into Paris to the train station.

Or you could pick up the car in Lyon instead and use the two hours to drive there.

Geoff, the last time I was buying train tickets in France (June), they told me French train tickets are not good for 60 days any more, but only for the same date that is on them. They said that regulation was changed-- I believe early in 2005. They are good for any train that day, however, on the same route, as long as the ticket price is the same. Those kind of tickets are still very convenient for day trips, as you don't have to worry exactly which train to catch to get back in the late afternoon or evening to your base city. Thus, you can save time by buying both segments at once and not waste time standing in line twice.

Gare de Lyon to Dijon takes 1h30 by TGV and 3h with slow trains (TER). there is a TGV at 10h34 to Dijon (12h11)for 20€ (prem's). not sure the car agency will be open between 12 and 2pm.
I wouldn't like to go to Lyon and go back up to Dijon...
Hope you'll have time to visit my nice town!
welcome to France!
corinne

Christina,

I can only speak for "slow trains," specifically those now categorized administratively as TER, or regional. Tickets for those trains are still good for use any time up to 60 days after issue.

There have been changes in refund policies, and that might be what was being described to you.

Now I'm really confused. My itinerary does not include--or at least is not supposed to include--travel to Lyon. I thought the "Gare de Lyon" was the name of the main train station in Paris (like Penn Station, not necessarily in Pennsylvania)?

StCirq's message confused me as well. You don't want to go from Paris to Dijon via Lyon - it's a long way round so will cost more as well as taking longer.

>I wouldn't like to go to Lyon and go back up to Dijon...< I said that as well because it seems a bit weird to go down to Lyon which is 200km further south from Dijon to go back to Dijon.

Gare de Lyon is the station in Paris where all trains go south.
so you can follow my advice if you don't want to lose time! ;-)
>there is a TGV at 10h34 to Dijon (12h11)for 20€ (prem's).<

I don't know, Dave, but it definitely was not refund policies that was explained to me as we were not discussing refunds at all. It was the validity of the ticket. They used to even have good for 60 days printed on them, and now they don't. I don't know if it would be regional or what category it would be, but the train I was buying tickets for and asked how long they'd be good for was from Montpellier to Narbonne. Maybe that is not a TER, I don't know.

Could you save time by returning your car somewhere in the south and then taking the TGV directly back to Paris instead of first returning to Dijon?

Well, StCirq's message confused me too

Let's just say I posted while I was putting together an incredibly complex train itinerary for a client who was traveling from Paris to Lyon and then Avignon and then Dijon and I got mightily confused. Milhouse - don't listen to anything I said!!!

Now I'd better check my client's itinerary to make sure I didn't mess that up, too!

well, I have sleuthed out part of the mystery on the ticket validity, as I was curious. Apparently, SNCF is running some tests on various tickets for anti-fraud measures, and sometimes they are only valid for that same day. That's the kind of ticket I had from Montpellier to Narbonne, with was actually a TER train, I checked.

I know that a year or two ago, I had a ticket from Paris to Reims that said right on it that it was valid for 60 days. I also found my tickets from this June, and right on the one from Montpellier to Narbonne it says "A utiliser di 26/6/05 ni echange, ni remboursement". I don't know what "di" means, I thought that was maybe a typo for "le". That was the ticket I was discussing with the clerk and she showed me the rule in writing. It was just a "plein tarif" second class TER ticket.

I found a statement on the SNCF website saying that they are running tests and sometimes tickets are only valid that day. I must have gotten one of those

<<Attention : dans le cadre d'une mesure expérimentale anti-fraude, sur certains trains sans réservation, les billets ne sont échangeables et remboursables que jusqu'à la veille du jour de voyage indiqué sur le billet ; vérifiez la mention sur votre billet.>>

So, I guess for some trains without reservations, you may need to ask if it will be valid for other days if there is any chance you might not use it immediately. This wouldn't apply to TGVs as they require reservations.

Thanks for researching that. It's certainly something to be checked when buying train tickets in France.