teacherCanada

Well, it's just about time to promote the next (and likely last) school international education excursion. Eurotrip 2011 to France, Italy and Greece is firmly positioned, fully subscribed and only about 5 months from departure. Since we plan trips like these about 2 years prior to departure, Eurotrip 2012 needs to be made available to eager, adventurous students.

The plan. During March 2012, 14 days split between Morocco and southern Spain. Flight into Casablanca, visit Rabat, Fes and Chechaoune and Tangier before taking the ferry to Spain. A quick visit to Gibraltar, 2 nights in Granada, then 4 nights in Valencia. We will be in Valencia for the finale (nit del foc) at the end of Festival Fallas.

After spending about 2.5 months doing research for the trip and sending our tentative itinerary out to 7 student group travel companies, information about the potential trip was made available to students. Great news. 45 students came to the first meeting. This is a positive response because we hope to take only about 25.

I will post over the next 17 months as we progress towards our departure date.

I'll post this on the Africa forum as well to see the feedback there.

tC

WomBatt

I note from another post -'I have already planned our trip for March 2012 to Morocco and Spain' but you do say here it is tentative. I cannot be sure, therefore, there is any value in providing my feedback, but I am a little intrigued and would comment and query.

After your proposed first four destinations in Morocco, I cannot see any time expended in Tangier will be of any value, if you are still looking for something resembling Morocco.

Why Gibraltar? There is nothing to see, or do, associated with the culture of southern Spain.

You are really short changing southern Spain/Andalucia.

Valencia cannot be described as southern Spain and four nights/three days is surely overdoing your time there with the little time you have and could have been better spent elsewhere. (If indeed the goal is to 'provide our students with the opportunity to see beyond their backyards and to experience life in other cultures with all five senses'.)

I appreciate we all travel differently, but there is a large amount amount of time expended travelling and the trip does not appear very relaxed until reaching Valencia. Have your previous students not complained about pace?

Best wishes.

teacherCanada

WomBatt - a keen eye on your part. The trip is already planned, but because we have not received the required permission to travel from the school board it is tentative. My use of the word "tentative" was more with respect to the itinerary. The itinerary is still subject to changes and refinements. We've found from previous trips that the final itinerary isn't determined until we have returned home.

We won't be spending much time in Tangier - it was mentioned only because we will be using that city as a base to travel to Spain. We do understand that "authentic Morocco" is next to impossible to grasp in 6 or 7 days. The hope is students will be exposed to things outside their comfort zone and raise their global awareness.

Gibraltar. Now here is something I thought would be impressive ... but maybe I am mislead. Gibraltar has a markedly different (different than Spain) history and that intrigued me. Besides the obvious Rock, I thought the chance to walk around and see the tunnels and animals would be worthwhile. If our time spent here is not worthwhile and this idea needs to be revised and we could go instead directly to Malaga or Granada, we can consider that change.

Again, WomBatt, you are right about having little time in southern Spain. To get more time in Spain we would have to take it from Morocco. We removed Marrakesh from the itinerary due to travel time and I hesitate to take any of the other destinations out too. We do have several days in Fes, which I hope will give students a chance to explore the area more fully. There is still time to make adjustments and we are willing to consider alternatives.

Valencia does provide a fantastic last destination with the excitement attached to Festival Fallas. One aspect of the Valencia stay I must factor in is the hotel accommodation. Since we would be visiting on the final few days, hotels are unlikely to allow us only a 2 night stay since they would have customers willing to stay longer. We had this experience last time we visited. There certainly are enough attractions to keep us busy in Valencia for those days.

You are right about the pace. It is busy. We don't promote Eurotrip 2012 as a holiday or vacation. It is an international education excursion where we try to pack a lot of experiences into a short 14 day period. We try to make the most of our travel times. Our goal is expose the students to new experiences - train and ferry travel among them.

Thanks very much for your input. I'll have to spend more time reviewing our stop in Gibraltar.

tC

Egbert

I would only return to Morroco if I could go to Marrakesh and Essouira. I have been to the other places on your itinerary. Hopefully the students will learn to appreciate the place they live more, it is fascinating. I would spend 4 nights in Seville, two in Granada, 2 in Malaga and 4 nights in Madrid. Arab architectural masterpieces are to be found in Seville, Granada, Cordoba and Malaga. Ancient Roman ruins in cordoba, Italica, Carmona. Some of the world's best museums in Madrid. Valencia is a major destination for business conferences.

Britannia_C

I have taken a 16 day tour of Spain and the place that stands out most for me is Cordoba. The history is rich and it is not as touristy. Valencia is beautiful but 1/2 day was plenty. I would recommend Salamanca and Segovia but I know you are not going there.

StCirq

I would pass straight through Tangiers and get to the ferry asap. I would also eliminate Gibraltar completely and use those days for Spain.

It's certainly possible to get an "authentic taste of Morocco" in 6-7 days, it's just not possible to get that in Tangiers. And I can't even begin to imagine shepherding a group of students around there. It will be strenuous enough in Rabat and Fes and Chechouane (all of which I love, though not all would be my first choices - I'd pick Marrakech, Fes, and Essaouira).

Michael

I liked Meknès and when planning my trip, got the impression from the guidebooks that Rabat is not worth the visit if time is limited. Meknès also has easy access to Volubilis and Moulay Idriss.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7622870770847/

StCirq

I agree that Meknès is a great destination, smaller than Rabat and probably more manageable with a group. And Rabat being the capital city, it is lower on the authenticity scale if you're interested in the old souks and such. Still, because of its modernity it might be a fairly easy place to navigate with a group of kids and not so overwhelmingly "foreign." I shudder to think what it would be like to take a gaggle of students through the souk in Marrakech - I do love the place, but I never fail to get hopelessly lost, and the maps I've found are useless.

Michael

I think that a group visiting a souk must have a guide. They are not that hard to find, whether official or unofficial. The one we had in Meknès spoke English and was our guide for our excursion to Volubilis and Moulay Idriss. We were accosted by independent guides as we stepped out of our hotel. They spoke French, but my wife insisted, rightly, on an English speaking guide. The guide who first offered his services found one for us. The funny thing is that the guide we had was supposed to give him a cut of what we paid. We paid the going rate, which was very low, plus a tip. The original French-speaking guide tried to pry out of us what we paid. We told him that he should ask our English speaking guide. We also used an official guide in Fez, and he was not as good as the guide we had in Meknès.

Cowboy1968

Since I'm not sure what the educational focus of that trip is supposed to be, I find it hard to make valid suggestions.

I'd have thought that a school trip had a different spin than "6 days of the most wonderful places in Morocco or Spain or XYZ).
Especially since Morocco (being only a few kms from Europe) has several "not so wonderful" features like child labor or having people work for pennies so that kids on the other side of the Strait can buy a cool T-shirt for €30 which cost €1 to make. Not even talking about the labor and environmental conditions that the whole fashion production there causes so that someone in Vienna or Glasgow can carefully recycle their trash in jeans that wrecked the eco system elsewhere.
Or that our North Sea shrimp gets trucked through the whole continent and back to get peeled in Morocco because it can be done for pennies down there.
Especially for young people it might be interesting to see and compare the "career opportunities" of their peers in a 3rd world country.

In Andalucia, one might be interested not only in the Alhambra itself (which is without any doubt a wonderful place to see) but also looking for traces of a time when Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in (by the standards of the middle ages) peace and with many liberties and rights that are not the norm elsewhere these days.

The educational value of Gibraltar is still a bit unclear for me. Besides explaining that even serious and educated adults in fully-fledged 1st world countries can fight over bits and pieces of rubble and rocks as if the future of the universe depends on it.

teacherCanada

Egbert - thank you for your comments. Both Spain and Morocco have something to offer our group. It is indeed a challenge to create an itinerary that is educational and interesting for a teenage crowd. I hope we end up with such an itinerary.

Britannia_C - I wish we could spend 16 days in Spain. It is a beautiful country with so much to offer. Valencia is a target city because of Festival Fallas.

StCirq - I value your sage advice since I have read of your exploits and contributions to this forum for years. Thank you for your comments. Tangiers is going to be a transit city, not a destination. I have heard many stories about Tangiers and none of them endear me to the site. I feel Gibraltar is worthy of a visit. Can you tell me why you feel we should eliminate it? I will look at Essaouira to see if it will work for us. Meknes looks like a great destination and I think we could easily substitute it for Rabat on our travel day from Casablanca. Maybe we could arrange an overnight there if it is justified.

Michael - thanks for the flickr link. I looked through your photos and I am very impressed. Now that I can picture Meknes it will be easier to see if we can work a change in our itinerary. Thanks so much. We will most certainly have a guide (or guides) for the souks. The safety and security of the students is paramount. If I don't feel comfortable with an event we just avoid it. I must, however, balance my need for safety with a teenagers desire for risk. I think once we arrive at a souk they will not stray far from a chaperone or guide.

Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions and input. We are still waiting to see what the travel professionals can offer us.

tC

StCirq

tC:

Regarding Gibraltar, here are my thoughts:

It has its own currency. PITA to get it for just a day or two and then probably lose $$ on exchanging it again (probably fair to surmise that no one in the group will be returning to Gibraltar).

It's got one of the most dense populations in any space in the world. Its economy is based on tourism (there isn't much else to base it on); it's crowded, even when tourists aren't there.

Unless you really know your history (and I'm talking Carthaginians, Romans, Vandals, Moors, Visigoths, not to mention Dutch and British), it's pretty hard to make sense of the place historically in a day or two. Oh, and it's thought to be the place where the last vestiges of Neanderthal Man were found, but will the kids care or understand? It's of interest to me, but to a 14-year-old (how old are these kids anyway?)?

Monkeys are interesting for about 15 minutes. Rocks maybe for a half-hour. Sure, the geography is appealing, but weighed against everything else (including two ferry crossings as opposed to one), meh....

Finally, in contrast to Morocco and Spain, it's just a blip on the screen and one that's not worth the logistics, IMO. No kid is ever going to encounter any situation in life where he/she can recount his/her experience in Gibraltar as having contributed to much of anything useful.

That said, I can see how you might see it as an interesting transition between the two continents and a chance for the kids to ogle monkeys and climb on rocks and do something other than learn about a new culture (because Gibraltar doesn't seriously HAVE a culture, per se) for a couple of days. But at the end of the day, I would say the kids would find perfectly acceptable substitutes (camel rides in Morocco, e.g.) for what passes for the typical tourism attractions in Gibraltar.

thursdaysd

I already commented on your other thread - it would be easier if we could keep the Morocco comments on the Africa board and the Gibraltar/Spain ones here... But since it was mentioned here: although I like Essaouira it doesn't make sense unless you also go to Marrakesh, plus it's really touristy and not as "Moroccan" as the other places you're considering.

I used UK currency in Gibraltar, which might well come in useful on another trip.

teacherCanada

StCirq - thanks for your reply. I'm not so in love with the idea of visiting Gibraltar that I couldn't be convinced to skip it. I just thought it would be an interesting spot to spend a few hours. You mention two ferries. I thought we would be able to drive from the ferry landing in Spain into Gibraltar, spend a few hours, then drive on to Malaga or Granada. Is this not possible? Is another ferry necessary? If visiting Gibraltar would require too many hours, we could drop it. Is the border crossing time consuming?

Cowboy1968 - my thoughts when planning a trip such as this is to make it entertaining, memorable and educational. It is not a "mission" trip, devoted to helping some group of "urchins" less fortunate than most North Americans. We certainly encounter situations that make our students very appreciative of what we consider "normal". One of my goals is to encourage students to continue travelling after high school by exposing them to some of the wonders of visiting new and strange lands ... also, to try and reduce some of the anxiety attached to travel. The Alhambra is most definitely on our list of sites to see. Gibraltar on the other hand has little cultural value but was significant from a mythological point of view and militarily. Being able to witness looking from one continent to another is something these students have never done before - and that can have an impact on them.

thursdaysd - I agree with you. Essaouira is not convenient to our prospective travel path, plus it appears it is much more a destination for Europeans needing some R and R. I would imagine it is much like Hurghada or Sharm in Egypt - modern and focussed on different aspects of Morocco than I would like to present to my students.

Thank you all for your input. I really value your thoughts.

tC

Hooameye

"I thought we would be able to drive from the ferry landing in Spain into Gibraltar."

You can drive from Spain onto Gibraltar or park in the town outside the entrance gate and walk on.

teacherCanada

We are getting closer to finalizing the itinerary. For the Spain aspect, (I will deal with the Moroccan part on the Africa forum) we will likely skip Gibraltar ... or do a driveby if we can't see it from the ferry. We expect to spend 2 nights in Granada, take the night train to Valencia, three nights in Valencia, then a connection to Madrid for the return flight home. It will cost approx. $4000 Canadian per student to participate. The planning is progressing well. Thank you everyone for your support to date.

tC