My husband and I are planning a ski trip to switzerland in early February. After a bit of internet research Grinderwald is my first choice. We have been skiing 3 times and can ski easy intermediate runs here in Australia which I was thinking may be more like beginner runs there. Any tips for a nice but budget say 3 star hotel in Grinderwald for 7 nights? Also can someone tell me how many daylight hours there are in winter? Also I would love some itinary suggestions as we would like to have about 2nights before and 2 nights after skiing. I was thinking about a night in Zurich or Lurcern and one in Interlaken on the way to Grindelwald. We would be arriving in Zurich around 9.15am although have not yet booked the day, maybe the 1st of Feb. Also what is the weather like in say Zurich in winter does it snow or Rain or mainly just cold? Looking forward to your replies, Thanks

Grindelwald was our first, and remains our favorite, European ski destination and I think it's a good choice for your trip. The scenery is absolutely unbeatable and confident beginners can ski just about anywhere on either the eastern (First) or western (Mannlichen) side of the valley. Some of the lifts are antiquated and a bit slow, but that's part of the charm, and it's not as snow-sure as some of the higher resorts, but that's more of a problem for the slopes heading back to town, which are a bit boring anyway. You also have the option of taking the train up through the Eiger or trying the traditional wooden sleds if you want to take a break from skiing for a while.

We have always stayed at the Hotel Eiger, which is right in the center of town. I'm afraid it may not qualify as "budget" but I can recommend it highly both for its location and its hospitality.

An overnight in Zurich is a good idea and something that we do from time to time. We particularly like their art museum and Bierhalle Kropf. We always go in early March and I've never seen snow in town then, but I don't know about early Feb. I've never been to Lucerne, so can't comment on that. My only experience with Interlaken is to change trains there.

Don't forget to spend at least one day all the way over on the Murren side of the area, which is something of an expedition, and then head up to the Schilthorn on the tram. And before you go, rent the films "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" which was shot in Murren and at the Schilthorn and "The Eiger Sanction" which has quite a few scenes of the Eiger (of course) and Kleine Scheidegg.

February is generally an excellent month for skiing, not too cold like December and January can be. You may run into school holidays, but not a lot you can do about that. The Grindlewald area is not my favourite area for skiing, but it is certainly beautiful.

For daylight hours go to sunrisesunset.com and use Zurich as a guide. In the mountains, the sun will get below the Alps a bit earlier, but you will have a rough idea.

Zurich does not generally get a lot of snow (at least not in the 4 years I lived there) but is usually just cold. If it does snow it usually does not stick around much, rain is also common. It is a very charming small city with a lot to see and do, and would certainly make a good place to stop either first or last.

If you can arrange your air ticket to let you fly into Zurich and out of Geneva (or vice versa), you would be able to spend 2 nights in the Lake Geneva area which is very beautiful and would let you see a different part of the country (see below).

I would not spend a night in Interlaken. In the first place, it is less than 30 minutes from Grindlewald, so you can go there for an afternoon if you want. In the second, there is not much to see in Interlaken. If you want a lake town, stay a night in Thun which has a more charming old town and a castle. Interlaken has a bit of an old town and some nice mountain views on a clear day, but as you will be in Grindlewald, you will have much more spectacular views, and you can go to Murren and Wengen if you want to get valley views.

I am not a fan of Lucerne, esp in winter when ferry rides on the lake might not be that much fun. It is also 3 hours by train from there to Grindlewald, so it doesn’t really break up the trip much. However lots of people on this board like Lucerne, so do a search.

As for skiing, I have to put in my two cents and say that the Jungfrau valley, while certainly extremely beautiful, is not my favourite place to ski, and I don't think it is a great place for beginners. I find the trails narrow and a bit dark; and as noted above, the lift system is antiquated (frankly a problem in a lot of Switzerland but this area is the worst). I far prefer Zermatt, Saas Fe, Gstaad, Davos or Klosters. I think Zermatt is a great place for beginners, particularly the Gornegrat section of the mountain. As noted above you also have the Matterhorn looming over you which is a nice plus. You can ski over to Italy for the day, which is fun and there is great skiing over there. Saas Fe is in the next valley over from Zermatt and has some great skiing as well, with some good cross county skiing down in the valley. You can take a day off and go to Zermatt if you want. Gstaad is also a good choice for you as you are not strictly beginners, it also has the most charming Swiss style downtown. Klosters and Davos are good choices, and have some great runs if you want to challenge yourself a little bit, esp the 12 mile Kublis run from Davos to Klosters. There is cross country skiing in the valley and a great sledging run (basically runner sleds) one valley over towards St Moritz. They are not really charming towns, although Klosters is a little bit more charming than Davos. The valleys and mountains are all beautiful as well, although admittedly don't have quite the same wow factor as the Jungfrau/Monch/Eiger (other than Zermatt which packs a lot of wow).

If you can get a flight into or out of Geneva, then for your first or last 2 nights, I would recco that you go to the Vevey/Montreux/Laussane end of Lake Geneva which is very beautiful. In February the hillside vineyards will be brown, but you will still get the beautiful lake and Alp views and can still do walks and wine tastings. There is the Chillon Castle which is definitely worth a visit. I can recc some hotels. My favourite town is Vevey, but I would probably recco the Kempinski hotel up above town (for a splurge) as you can do more walks from here and they have a great spa. You can then train from here to Geneva airport in about an hour or so. Take a look at rail.ch for schedules.

From the Grindlewald and Gstaad areas, a nice way to get to or from the Lake Geneva area would be the Goldenpass train up and over several passes, take a look at Goldenpass.com.

If you decide on Grindlewald, a 3 star hotel that might be a good choice would be the Best Western Hotel Derby, take a look at bestwestern.com. I have not stayed here but have seen several of the rooms, some have been redone quite charmingly in a Swiss pine style with wrought iron bedsteads, ask about a redone room. (I can probably even find the room numbers of these rooms if you want; I did a pretty extensive hotel search in the BO last year for a family Christmas vacation and looked at most 3/4/5 star hotels in the valley.) This hotel was #2 out of 40 on tripadvisor.com for Bernese Oberland hotels, take a look at comments there. Most of the rooms have great views.

If you decide to ski in Davos or Klosters, then flying in and out of Zurich makes the most sense. You can make a day trip to St Moritz (or go ski in that area for a day or two), which is an absolutely lovely train ride. You could also spend a day doing the Bernina Express ride up and over the Bernina Pass, past glaciers and down into Italy, one of the great train ride experiences. For information on the Bernina Express, go to http://www.rhb.ch. Click on "English" in the lower right to get the English version. Click on "Experience Trains" and then look for the Bernina Express.

thanks for the replies flyfish and cicerone. I thought Grindelwald was the best for easier skiing but maybe not. In Australia where we have skied we have always had ski in/ ski out right from the lodge door but I don't think that is possible anywhere in Switzerland, is that correct? Since a week of skiing is the main reason for our visit it is important that we get the ski resort area right for our ability. I did initially look at Zermatt but I thought the accommodation looked expensive and St Moritz is way out of our league. Do you know of any nice 2/3 star hotels good value in Zermatt. The Derby in Grindelwald was going to cost us CHF 1550 For 2 adults inc breakfast for 7 nights. So thats about the price we are looking at. We don't need fancy 4 star as long as its clean, warm with ensuite, and has a good breakfast we will be happy.
So far as the flights go, I'm pretty sure we wil have to arrive and depart from Zurich but I will check.

Ski in and ski out is tough in Switzerland, as most hotels are located at the bottom in the villages, but I do know three in Zermatt. One is a five star, so is out for you. The other 2 are below, both are 2-3 star. I have eaten in both and like their restaurants, I think the Klum Gornegrat was just completely redone this past January so might be quite nice. They are both up on the Gornegrat part of the mountain which is very good for novice skiers. The one drawback to these are that they are up ON the mountain, so you have to take the train down into town at night if you want to go out, which will cost something like CH35 per trip without any discount card or unless you have a ski pass that includes this trip, so it can get pricy if you go into town each night. Of course if you just want to have dinner in the hotel and go to sleep then these hotels are not a problem at all. (I also don't know how late the last train runs, for info on the Gornegrat bahn train, go to http://www.gornergrat.ch

Riffleberg, 3 star, have not been in the rooms, but lobby and restaurants are charming in Swiss style. http://www.matterhorn-group.ch. Great Matterhorn views. This group has other hotels in the town of Zermatt.

Klum Gornegrat. 2 stars, great location at the top of the Gornegrat with stunning views. I have not seen the rooms, but the restaurants and public areas are nice. Run by the same group which operates the Riffelberg hotel, see the website above.

The 5 star hotel is the Rifflealp, I would defintatley recco lunch, dinner, or apre-ski drinks here to watch the sun set over the Matterhorn . . . Website is Riffelalp.com.

The Hotel Alpina is a 2 star in town which gets good reccos on this site, take a look at http://www.alpina-zermatt.ch

If you have to fly out of Zurich, you may still be able to get back to Zurich from the Lake Geneva side of Switzerland, it would depend on the time your flight departs from Zurich. I forget that you are returning to Australia, not the US (like most people on this board) so you may not have an early morning departure. Train time from Lausanne to Zurich Airport is only 2.5 hours, so if you have a late morning or an afternoon or evening departure, you could do easily leave the Lake Geneva area in the morning and make a flight. (You could of course do it with an early morning departure, but that would mean an overnight in Zurich the night before your flight which kind of defeats the purpose and adds to the cost.)

Train time from Zermatt to Lausanne is about 3 hours. From Grindlewald to Lausanne is just a bit longer.

I think Arosa is great for your level. Begginner slopes from the top of the mountain. Village is very nice, small and easy to get around. You can there in about two hours by train, have to transfer once in Chur

Sansman, I was thinking of Arosa too, but have only skiied there once as part of a trip over the back side from Davos and was not with any novices, so good to hear the trails are OK. Auzzie is looking for 2 or 3 star lodgings, any reccos?

Auzzie, from Arosa you can also do the Bernina Express (you get it in Chur) and you could also go St Moritz for a day. Chur has a small but nice old town and you could take an ofternoon off and go there. Bad Ragaz, in the valley on the way back to Zurich has hot springs and some good hotels that might be a place to stop for an overnight, there would be cross country skiing in this valley and horse backriding and walking. You could also stop at St Gallen on the way back to Zurich for an overnight, they have a very nice old town including a beautiful cathedral and library.

From the Arosa/Klosters/Davos area you could also go to Lucerne (about 3 to 3.5 hours) and spend a night or two and then head back to Zurich. Get a map, Switzerland is quite small and most places are fairly close.

I looked at my notes for the Derby hotel in Grindlewald, and see that Room 208 was the nicest. It was redone in blue and white with wrought iron headboard, was a corner room and had two balconies. I don't think they will confirm actual room numbers, but you might say you liked the redone room and decor and see if they can give you a similar room.

Thanks agains for your replies.
Arosa does look nice from what i could find that was in english.( Im getting pretty good at guessing/reading German now.
Hubby seems pretty keen on the Jungfrau region He wants to go to the top.
Do you know much about the smaller villages in the area like Wengen or Murren. The main thing that concerns me about Grindelwald is the access to the gondelas up to the actual ski runs
I believe it takes a fair while to get up the mountain is this true?
Murren is a higher altitude so do you pretty much go straight up the ski lifts from the village?

The gondola up into the First ski area (east side of the valley that Grindelwald is in) leaves from the center of town and, as I recall, takes about a half hour to the top, with two intermediate stations to get off (or back on) if you like. From there, there's a short chair lift to the very top (Oberjoch). I have to respectfully disagree with cicerone, at least with regard to First - the First pistes are wide and sunny most of the day and, with the exception of a few well marked and easily avoided runs, quite accessible to beginners. Access to the other side of the valley is a bit more time-consuming and involves either getting on the cog train, again more-or-less from the center of town, for a slow but reasonably enjoyable trip along the base of the Eiger North Wall up to Kleine Scheidegg, where you can either start back down or take another short chair to the top. Alternatively, from Grindelwald you hop on the ski bus for the very short trip to the base of the Mannlichen gondola, which is arguably the slowest gondola in the world and what people are usually referring to when they talk about antiquated lifts. It takes something like 45 minutes to the top of the Mannlichen ridge, again with an intermediate loading point. The pistes on the Mannlichen side are somewhat narrower and a bit darker in the later afternoon, but I don't recall either being an issue. I mostly ski in New England on trails that are heavily forested, usually both steep and narrow, with lots of icy patches to keep you focused, so I guess it's a matter of what you're used to.

From Wengen, there's a tram that takes you up the other side of the Mannlichen ridge (too steep for skiing on that side) and from there you access the same slopes as from the Mannlichen gondola. Alternatively, you can take the cog train to Kleine Scheidegg, approaching it from the other side. From there you can work along the ridge toward Mannlichen or drop back down to Wengen the way you came. There are lifts that leave from the center, such as it is, of Murren, and of course there's the tram to the Schilthorn - definitely some place you want to go, but not recommended for beginners as a place to ski. The very steep run down from the Schilthorn isn't called The Inferno for nothing, though often it's groomed out these days - when I was there some years ago the bumps were taller than I am and while I did get to the bottom eventually it wasn't a pretty sight. The variety of slopes at Murren is more limited, particularly for beginners. I really think that Grindelwald is the best base in the Jungfrau, primarily because of the easy access to First.

Thank you FlyFish,
I know wherever we go we will have a good time as this will be our first trip to europe. There is just so many places to choose from which is half the problem. The other half is that none of the Travel agents or even the booking agent here, have any knowledge at all about skiing in Switzerland so I highly value all the info Iam recieving here.
I think seeing as Grindelwald we our first selection I might stick to that now you have relieved some of my concerns about skiing there.
A few more questions maybe you or others can help me out with---
If the First lift area is where we would be likely to be doing most of our skiing would in be better to say in accommodation closer to that lift or does it not make much difference?

Is there a free ski bus to take you to the lifts and what route does it take?

I see there are different lift tickets. The Jungfrau one showes the area covering Interlaken as well. Does this mean our lift ticket will include the transport cost for us to travel from Interlaken to Grindelwald?

Hotels---- Thanks for info on the Derby
Its in our price range. Has any one stayed at the Parkhotel Schonegg? I know it is closer to First lift.
Thanks

Hi auzzie - If you go to www.grindelwald.com (and click on the "E" in the upper right for English - took me a while to figure that out) you can bring up a map of town. On the map you can clearly see where the Firstbahn leaves (toward the right and just off the main street), and, to the left, the central bus stop. A bit further left beyond that is the train station where you will arrive. The several times we've been there we've stayed at the Eiger, which is No. 25 on the map, about midway between the Firstbahn and the bus stop. The town is much smaller than it appears from the map - the walk from the Eiger to the Firstbahn for example, in ski boots with skis over shoulder, is about 5 minutes - less if you're in a hurry. We also had no hesitation in taking the slightly longer walk in the other direction to the train station - or, it's possible to wait for the bus. I'm talking about in ski boots with equipment of course - in normal walking shoes the distances are trivial. There are several bus routes and many stops besides the central one marked on the map. All are clearly marked, with timetables posted at each. The buses, and the BOB (Berner Oberland Bahn) cog train, as well as all the various other lifts, trams, funiculars, etc. in the area bounded by Interlaken, Murren and Grindelwald are all part of the Jungfrau Top ski region pass, which is one of the nice features of the area. For example, if you want to go from Grindelwald to Wengen you could take the train up to Kleine Scheidegg and then down to Wengen, or take the Mannlichenbahn gondola to the ridge and then the tram down to Wengen, or take the train down to Zweileutschinen, then back to Lauterbrunnen, then up to Wengen, all with your single lift ticket. And all the trains, trams, etc. run on a schedule that is followed with a precision that's almost frightening - the latest any one of them left in the many, many times I've ridden them was 15 seconds behind the scheduled time. We made a connection at Zweileutschinen once that was only one minute scheduled between trains - no problem at all.

With regard to whether you want to be closer to the Firstbahn base, I think that's up to you. For me, I really like the idea of walking out the door of my hotel and down the street without involving a bus, but the buses are very convenient and all of them stop there. You had mentioned the Derby - as I recall, it's right at the train station, so will be more convenient for the Kleine Scheidegg and Mannlichen slopes. You may not want to walk with your gear as far as the Firstbahn (though you certainly could), but the buses will get you there quickly, so I wouldn't make that a major consideration if you like the hotel otherwise.

I really think you'll like First. You can bring up a piste map at www.skimaps.com to get an idea of the area. Although there are several reds marked, most of them would qualify as blues in many other areas, and the blues are very easy skiing, practically beginner slopes. If the runs back into town are open, a very nice long cruise is to work your way over from the top of the Firstbahn to the Schilt t-bar. From the top of that it's a lovely blue (No. 10) to a couple of easy reds (12 and 23 - the Stepfi run) that end up - after perhaps an hour or more if you take your time - back south of town at a hotel (Wetterhorn, I think) where you can have a beer and a snack at the outside tables while you wait for the bus back into town. Another place you want to check out is the restaurant at Schreckfeld, which overlooks the valley and is a strong contender for my most favorite place to be in the world, with a Rugenbrau and order of fries in front of me.

On the other side of the valley, the open slopes from the top of the Mannlichenbahn down to the Lager and Mannlichen chairs are very pleasant and you can ski them repeatedly without having to deal with the slow gondola, except for the first time up. Also, the various easy blues that take you from Kleine Scheidegg to Brandegg and then back into town at Grund are fun - if you don't mind a little skating and poling in places - when there's enough snow down lower for them to be open. There are signs posted at the bottom and top of the major lifts that clearly show which runs are open that day.

I remember how magical it was the first time we went several years ago - still is, of course, but different - and I really envy you being able to do it for the first time.

Two things - the skimaps.com piste map for Grindelwald is pretty bad - you can get a much better map at the grindwald.com site. And I believe the Schilt t-bar I mentioned has been replaced by a chairlift - good thing, as it was a long one - though it's still shown as a t-bar on some of the maps.

Thanks all,
Just researching hotels now, deciding where to stay. Will post again later when itinary worked out so you can all pick it to bits.