I'm in the early stages of planning a ski/tour for my family of six for next January. Several years ago we flew into Zurich skiied 3 days in Lech, spent 1 night in Luzern then skiied 3 days in Wengen. We were able to incorporate a little touring because we drove most of the time.
This trip we'll have the 2 new in laws in our family and are currently thinking about Zermatt.
Questions:
With 6 adults would it be better to rent a car to get to Zermatt?
In what other area might we consider skiing? We're intermediate skiers and would prefer a village atmosphere rather than a purpose built resort. We would consider anywhere i.e. Switz, Austria, France, etc. that didn't require much more than a half day of travel. Would love to explore some areas we havn't seen yet.
Would it be better to fly into Geneva for Zermatt?
Thanks so much for your help.

A few places I've been to that might fit your description:

Saas Fee (car-free town in a valley near Zermatt)

Leukerbad (great wellness town with skiing, located in Wallis but on the other side)

Engelberg (not too far from Zürich with great skiing)

Arosa (located above Chur)

Lenzerheide (located above Chur: beautiful scenery, good skiing and easy to get to)

If I had a choice from the above, I'd go to Saas Fee or Lenzerheide.

I think your better airfares are into Zurich rather than Geneva. I also think the travel times to Zermatt from either place are about the same. You can check the times out on the raileurope.com website. There's also another really good website for train schedules, if that's the way you're going to go, which is bahn.de. It's a german site and if you click on tickets, there's a choice of languages, so you can check the schedules in English. They have very detailed schedules, so you really get a good idea about times, how many stops, etc. I don't know much about skiing in Europe, but I was in Zermatt early last March and they have some great skiing areas. I rode the Gornergrat(sp?)from the main train station to the very end, which I was told is the 2nd highest place in Europe, and there were several places to get off on the way up to the top for skiing. From my vantage point, the runs didn't seem terribly steep, so maybe they were quite doable for intermediate skiers. At the very end of the village there is another ski lift area that goes to another part of the mountains. What's nice about where I ended up, was that the Matterhorn mountain was right there and it was awesome to see. It just seemed like it would be a great place to ski. Zermatt itself is really pretty and quaint, but I guess it depends on what you want to do. There are no cars allowed in Zermatt, but possibly you could drive to Brig and take the train from there. Good luck however this works out for you.

Hi Pawleys,

I feel that I ought to add my thoughts about Zermatt --

I'm one of those terrible intermediates lolling about on the slopes, and I thought that Zermatt wasn't the right resort for me (though I only skied there once). It was very cold with blasting wind that made me even colder and that obscured the slopes with blowing snow.

I also didn't think the village was all that charming. Yes, it has buildings of dark brown wood, but they are really almost right on top of one another. It struck me as being overbuilt.

I know I'm in the minority on this -- lots of folks here love the place! But just for the record, I would investigate the places that schuler mentions.

Good luck!

s

Another vote for Engelberg - easy to get to from Zurich and very much a ski town. I'm not a skier, so can't comment on the range of skiing, but Engelberg definitely has a village atmosphere - it's not car free, so you can drive, whereas in Zermatt, you'd have to leave your car in Tasch and take the train into Zermatt.

You might look into renting a chalet, since you have six people - here's the site for Engelberg - www.engelberg.ch

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I an not familiar with Engelberg, Lenzerheide so I need to do some more research. I definately want a snow sure location that has alot of charm. These places look like they would be convenient to see an area of Switz we haven't seen. Maybe could do Zermatt first then travel to one of these areas then back to Zurich for a couple of nights before we fly out? How does that sound?

I'm not sure i agree that "the best airfares" are in and out of Zurich. I would at least check on fares into and out of Geneva if cost is a major factor.

Am sure you already know that Zermatt is carless and you end up parking in the huge lot in the village below (Tasch). Getting there from Geneva by rail will take at least 2.5-3 hrs using the fastest possible services.

I cannot comment on the pistes or the level of skill required but the village itself is definitely a "village" with the usual, and expected, architecture, and often the prices to match although I've always found it to be somewhat less sterile than St. Moritz, for example.

You could get more information at www.zarmatt.ch

Sorry..that URL is
www.zermatt.com

Thanks for the website, Intrepid, it's great.
As far as airports, I'm going to check airfares. I might get lucky and be able to use frequent flyer miles. Ideally, I would love to fly into Geneva just because we've never seen that area. Had thought it would be nice to spend the first night in Glion or somewhere near the lake. Do you think that we would enjoy being in that area in winter time?

I must first say that if you aren't going at Christmas and can therefore be a bit flexible on dates, I would NOT go in January, which traditionally is the coldest month (maybe tied with December) for skiing in Switzerland and Europe generally. (I am guessing Swandav was in Zermatt in Jan or late December). I would go in February or early March.. Temps will be better, you also have more time for snow to build up.

I am a huge fan of Zermatt for intermediates. Lots of trails, lots of options for going to different parts of the mountain and you can ski over to Italy for the day which is fun. I personally would stay on the mountain and do ski-in and ski-out thereby avoiding the schlep to the lifts each day and the long haul down into town (which sometimes requires walking if snow is thin on the 1-2 trails into town). Flying into Geneva is preferable, as it will save you an hour on the train and on top of an overnight flight, an hour can make a big difference.

I am also a very big fan of Saas-Fee which is also car-free, but is smaller and does have charm and is off the tourist path. There is good cross-country in the valley. You can do a day trip to Zermatt from here. Getting to the lifts is much easier than in Zermatt as the town is much smaller.

Verbier is also excellent for intermediates, but is not at all charming. If you go there, I would rent a car, as there is no train access and you would end up taking a bus for part of the journey, not that much fun with a lot of equipment. For Verbier, flying into Geneva makes the most sense.

If you fly into Zurich, I am a big fan of Davos and Klosters, esp for intermediates. The 12-mile Kublis run is really something. Lots of off piste here as well. Neither village has a lot of Swiss charm, but sometimes you run into Prince Charles which kind of makes up for it. . . Klosters is a little more charming, and has some better restaurants, but either is fine.

I have skied Arosa once, and enjoyed it, this is also in the same area and is easily reachable from Zurich. I have been to the town in summer and it is very charming, and car free as well. From any of these if you wanted to take a day off, you could do the spectacular Bernina Express train ride up through the glaciers.

I agree St Moritz is a little sterile, same with Celerina.

If you fly into Zurich, the St Anton Austria area is only 2.5 hours by train and is also excellent for intermediates. This is a charming car-free town with a very lively après-ski life.

Car versus train is a toss-up. With 6 adults and stuff you would fit into a car, and I not sure you would even fit into a van, and vans are hard to find for rent anyway, they are often booked, run a search now at Budget, AutoEurope, etc to check for yourself. If you are going to a car-free town like Zermatt, Saas-Fee, St Anton it is a waste of money, IMO as the train is really easy, and for the 10 minutes struggling on and off with luggage it is worth it. You can also ship luggage from the airport to Zermatt, if your flight arrives early enough you may be able to use "Fast Baggage" which guarantees delivery in 8 hours, take a look at http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...isegepaeck.htm (Saas Fee may be on that list; you can of course ship luggage by rail anywhere you want in Switzerland or Europe, but the 8 hours is only guaranteed to certain destinations like Zermatt. Shipping ahead would certainly work if you want to spend time in Zurich or Geneva on your way out, you could ship skis and ski gear to the airport and have it waiting for you. Take a look at http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...ck-schweiz.htm).

The Lake Geneva area is not really at its best in winter, it is quite brown and the ferries are not running on the lake. I personally would save it for a better time of year. The only reason to fly to Geneva would be (i) better airfare, (ii) nonstop flights and (iii) for the resorts closer in like Verbier or to save train time to Zermatt.

Renting a chalet is certainly a possbility, but then someone has to go shopping and do the cooking and cleaning(I always think it is men who think renting a house is a vacation. . . .) If you give a budget I can recco some hotels in places I have mentioned.

Sorry, meant to say that with 6 adults and stuff you would NOT fit into a car.

I also just saw the bit of your post about Franch. You might also consdier Gstaad which is good for intermediates and has a charming little downtown. Of course if you have been to the BO before, this may not be so appealing to you.

For France, you should definately consdier Courmayeur and Chaminoix in the Mt Blanc area. Very good skiing and both are lovely towns. You can fly into Geneva and be there in less than 2 hours by car (train is not an option, as for reasons I dont' understand it takes like 5 horus to get there by train from Geneva.)

Actually, this female was thinking about space and cost when I mentioned renting a chalet. We like to rent apartments whenever possible for the extra space and the kitchen facilites (for making morning coffee, picnic lunches and keeping the beer cold).

I certainly don't go on vacation to cook...

Thanks for the VERY helpful info. Cicerone, I don't know if my entire family can get away in Feb; but, it's worth looking into if the weather is that much better.
Also, I had been thinking it would be ideal to stay IN the village of Zermatt and I had been looking at the Romantik Hotel Julen. ( We stayed in the Romantik Hotel Krone in Lech several years ago and really enjoyed the atmosphere and the spa.) Now it appears I need to consider a spot on the mountain to facilitate skiing. Do you have any suggestions?

The Julen would definitely be at the top of my list if you wanted to stay in town. A very charming hotel with a nice indoor pool and wellness area. I have stayed there in the summer months, great Matterhorn views.

My view on staying in town in Zermatt is that if you want to ski every day, or most days, it is kind of a pain to get to the lifts. I did it once, and vowed never to do it again and after that always stayed on the mountain. I am just not a fan of walking around in my ski boots carrying my skis on snowy/icy streets to get to buses and/or to get to ski lifts. Conversely, at the end of a long day, I am not a fan of skiing down narrow, icy, skied off-trails with bare patches which are full of other tired skiers and then waiting in a queue for a bus to get back to town and then walking with my stuff in my ski boots over icy, snowy streets back to the hotel. (This is an issue in many resorts in Switzerland where ski-in ski out hotels and rental homes are hard to find; I am headed to Whistler in March and cannot wait to have a condo with that great feature!! The best place to avoid this IMO is to ski at Saas Fee which is quite small and built into the mountain. Arosa may also work for this and some parts of Verbier.). Zermatt also is a problem in that unless there is a ton of snow down in the village, the trails down into the village will be bare and you will end up walking more than you want to get back down into town, not a lot of fun in ski boots.

However, if you only want to ski for a few days, or only every other day, or if not everyone if your group skis, then staying in town is probably better for you, and the Julen is a good choice.

There are only 3 hotels actually up on the mountain, one is a 5 star which I love, the other two I have not stayed at but seem fine, they are 3 stars I think. They are all up on the Gornegrat portion of the mountain, which is excellent for skiing, and you can easily get over to the Sunnegga portion of the mountain which is another very good area (the actual Zermatt mountain area is not the great IMO). The one drawback to these are that they are up ON the mountain, so you have to take the train down into town at night if you want to go out (15-20 minutes), which will cost something like CH35 per trip without any discount card or unless you have a ski pass that includes this trip, so it can get pricy if you go into town each night. Of course if you ski hard all day, you may just want to have dinner in the hotel and go to sleep (and if you stay at the Rifflealp they have a pool and a wellness centre as well), then these hotels are not a problem at all. (I also don't know how late the last train runs, for info on the Gornegrat bahn train, go to http://www.gornergrat.ch)

Riffelalp 222m, 5 star luxury, great rooms, views and amenities. Website is Riffelalp.com. The Seiler group, which runs this hotel, has several other good 4 and 5 star hotels in town, esp. the Monte Rosa hotel and the Mount Cervin hotel, take a look at www.zermatt/ch/seiler.

Riffelberg, I have not been in the rooms, but the lobby and restaurants are charming in Swiss style. Location is mid-way up the Gornegrat just below the Riffelberg station. Great Matterhorn views. This group has other hotels in the town of Zermatt. http://www.matterhorn-group.ch.

Klum Gornegrat. Unparalleld location at the very top of the Gornegrat with stunning views. I have not seen the rooms, but the restaurants and public areas were just redone last year so I assume the hotel is nice as well. Run by the same group which operates the Riffelberg hotel. http://www.matterhorn-group.ch.

I have had friends vist from the US who got package deals for Zermatt which included airfare and the Rifflealp Hotel through ski tour opeartors in the US, so it is possible to get deals. The airfare is ususally very good, the hotel prices are usually not much less than they would have paid themselve, but the good airfare makes up for it.

As for the weather, December and January and generally the coldest months. If you cant' go in Feb, then go as late in Jan as you can. Take a look at weatherbase.com for historical temps. There have been times in Dec and Jan that is have been so cold and windy that they have to close cable cars.

If I can also add one additional suggestion, if you aren't interested in skiing for the entire 10 days, and don't want to see Zurich or Geneva (which frankly aren't that great in Jan and Feb for touring, daylight is short and it is a little cold for walking around the old town, ferries aren't running) then you might consider flying into Geneva and out of Milan, and spending that last 3 days of your trip in Milan. You can take the train in 3.5 to 4 hours from Zermatt, a pretty ride. (Only 1 change required at Brig) Milan is great for 3 days or so, besides the Last Supper, there are excellent restaurants, great little boutiques (and places like the huge Armani store), some good museums, and La Scala is open for the season. I think it is such a wonderful town for a short break in winter.

For schedules at La Scala, go to http://www.teatroallascala.org/publi.../EN/index.html

Cicerone, thanks for taking the time to respond to all of my questions. I think I have the picture of skiing back into Zermatt. I think I've gotten spoiled the last couple of years when we've skiied at Beaver Creek. The snow was great at Xmas. I know you'll have a great time at Whistler. It's been a long time but, it's one of our favorites.
Do you know where I might see a map of the rail lines? I didn't see one of the Swiss rail site. I think it would really help with my planning if I could actually see the routes.

Adding on to Cicerone's advice about Zermatt, I would also say getting to the lifts is somewhat of a pain depending on where you are staying, especially if you are in the main section of town. However, there are two hotels above town, not on the mountain, that offer excellent access to the lifts as well as the opportunity to walk into town at night for dinner which I think is a major plus. The Grand Hotel Schonegg (4 star) and the Alpenroyal (3 star) are up on the trail which comes down from the Sunnnega area. We have been to Zermatt a number of years in early March and the trail down from Sunnegga has always been skiable. I usually start by skiing on the Gornegrat, then ski over to the Sunegga area and then ski the trail down to this area where these hotels are. Both hotels have a wonderful breakfast and the Schonegg has an outstanding dining room and great apres ski. The Schonegg has an elevator that takes you right down to the access road to the Sunnegga lift (a short walk) and the nearby stop for a free bus to the Gonergrat station as well as the lifts to the Matterhorn area. Both hotels are in the same family so I would think you can use the very handy lift if you stay at the Apenroyal.

Some great info here. Thanks. I'm skiing Zermatt in late Feb-early March and would appreciate any help with a few questions.

1) For the first two days, I'll be skiing with a couple of low intermediates. Any recs? Could I get them to Cervinia?

2) After that, I'll be on my own. I can handle most Rockies double diamonds, although I like it a little lighter for crusing and powder. Any special tips? I'd love to ski off-piste, but by myself I know it's probably not a good idea.

3) Also, any recs for ski rentals and/or deals (doubtful, I'd guess) on lift tickets? I'll have four and maybe five ski days.

4) Snow doesn't look all that great yet (although I'm spoiled by the Cottonwood Canyons on recent trips). It's about 10-60 inch base. Is that typical? Do the the snows typically come later or should I worry?

Thanks for any or all help.

repete,

I have skied only once in Zermatt, so my experience is limited (btw, I think there are better resorts in the Alps). I think I can respond to some of your questions:

1) I would recommend Sunnegga-Blauherd for low intermediates. At least for the first day - or, if they are *very* low intermediates you could try Gornergrat - Rotenboden first (easy). On the second day you could take them to Cervinia (via Kleinmatterhorn, Theodulpass).

2) Cruising and powder? Off piste? Sort of double black diamonds are the runs and slopes from Hohtälli/Stockhorn to the north. Very steep. You might find better cruising options above Sunnegga (Blauherd - Rothorn). Do not ski off piste in the Kleinmatterhorn area - glaciers!

4) Snow usually comes later. Don't worry about the 10 inches in the village, it doesn't get much snow, but the skiing areas get more. However, Zermatt is not known for huge loads of snow in winter. Snow often comes quite late (March, April) in highest elevations.

Ingo,
Thanks. No, I don't look for cruising and powder at the same time, but I'll take a little of either. Basically, don't like bumps much these days.

I appreciate the input.

Pawleys, I am not sure what you mean by maps of the rail lines, do you mean a route map for all Swiss trains? I don't know of a map for that, there may be some train enthusiasts' site with that kind of map, mabe do a Google search. If you want a map of the lifts/cable cars at Zermatt itself, take a look at http://bergbahnen.zermatt.ch/e (click on "ski areas" and then click to see close ups of the various areas)

repete, I am not aware of any deals on lift tickets (discount tickets aren't sold early like they seem to be for US and Canadian resorts), but you can buy a 4 out of 5 day ticket. Rental prices for equipment also tend to be the same pretty much everywhere, it's a toss up whether you want to rent in the US to save the time of hunting out the rental shop on your first day and renturing on your last, up to you; your hotel may also have a rental place. You can ski off piste, but IMO you are best off hiring a guide to do this as they know they area and the conditions each day. I would never ski off piste without one, but IMO they are well worth the money. That being said, I don't think Zermatt is the best place for off piste so mabye save your money. (IMO Verbier is graet for off piste and maybe Davos next). Your hotel can help you find a guide if you want one.

Skiing over to the Italian side is quite easy, a low intermediate could do it with no problem IMO, and even a beginner with some patience and self-confidence could do it. You take a series of cable cars up to the top and then ski one longish trail down over to the Italian side, not a hard trail at all, it is wide, not very steep, and treeless (you are above the tree line). The first time I did it was after 3 days back on skis after 10 years of not skiing at all. The trails on the Italian side are very good, in some ways better than Zermatt, esp for intermediates. The only drawback IMO with skiing here is the trip back, at the end of the day when you are tired, it is a long ski down (basically accross the lower face of the Matterhorn) and while not technically difficult, it is windblown and can be icy. It is no reason not to ski Cerivina, but just something to keep a little reserve of strength for at the end of the day. I would not go over to the Italian side on a snowy day (altough the weather of couse can change during the day), but only head over on a clear one. Also, get an early a start as you can, aim to be at the base of the Zermatt-Furi lift when it opens (I think 8:30) as it take about 90 minutes to take the lifts up and over to the first trail over to Cervinia.

I agree that Sunegga is great, I also love the Gornegrat for the wide open sunny trails and the great Matterhorn view.

As your trip is so soon, below are some reccos for lunch on the mountain (lunch being one of the prime acitivitiees when skiing in Switzerland, the Swiss know how to live);

Sunegga - Chez Vrony (41-27-967 2552), a trailside restaurant in the charming hamlet of Findeln, reached from the Sunnega ski area. Definitely make a reservation. Great fondue on their outdoor terrace, some of which have lounger seats to really relax and take in the view.

Cervina - Chalet Etoile
Plan Maison Lift
tel: 39 0166 940220

On a sunny day there is nothing better than sitting outside and having some of their great soup and pasta. I would definitely recommend making a lunch reservation, as it gets very crowded. They have a large outdoor seating area.

Gornegrat
Riffelberg Hotel
At the Riffelberg stop on the Gornegrat train

Nice restaurant with indoor and outdoor areas with Matterhorn view. For non-skiers, this is a bit more of a walk downhill from the Riffelberg stop (and a bit more of a walk uphill after lunch back to the train) but is doable; also can access walks and the sledge run from here. Go to http://www.matterhorn-group.ch/en/ri...ants/index.php for info on the hotel and the cafeteria and restaurant.

Riffelalp
Rifflealp 2222m Hotel
go to www.zermatt.ch/riffelalp
Rifflealp stop on the Gornegrat train

Kulm Gornegrat
Gornegrat Station

Cafeteria and sit-down restaurant. Views are only good if you are at the windows. The cafeteria has a small outdoor area in the sun. The restaurant tends to get quite smoky (a problem with many restaurants in Switzerland in winter.) Go to http://www.matterhorn-group.ch/en/go...ants/index.php for info. A bit of a pain to get to and from with ski boots, as it involves some stairs and uphill walking.

If you haven’t; already found it, there is a live webcam of various parts of the mountain at http://bergbahnen.zermatt.ch/e/web-cam/