I'm asking for criticism and advise on the Swiss portion of our trip this Spring.

We will be spending a week in Rome, and a week in Florence, then taking a train to Lugano on 9 May. We will stay there 3 days (Milan is an option, but the next step, the Bernina express, is a main point of the trip and Lugano seems interesting and more convenient to the train. From Lugano we will take the Bernina express to Chur, and a connecting train to Luzern. We'll spend about three days in Luzern, then take a train to Boltigen in the BO. We plan to stay there 4 or 5 days, then take a train to Geneva via Montreux. We will then spend 3 or 4 days in Geneva, and fly home from there on 24 May.

We'll stay in apartments in Rome and Florence. Since my initial impression is that we won't have enough time in Switzerland (particularly Luzern), we might take a day off Florence or Geneva and add it to Switzerland.

We want four or even five days in Boltigen to relax in the splendid rural scenery, and because it is my ancestral home. We might daytrip to Lauterbrunnen and the Jungfraujoch, since we liked the Lauterbrunnen valley when we visited before, but didn't get good weather to warrant ascending Jungfraujoch.

My main concern now is that the train trip from Lugano to Luzern is very long, but I don't think riding a train and viewing the scenery will be too exhausting, and I don't know the geography well enough to know if there is a shorter way to Luzern without missing any scenery.

I played with the train fares and to me the Swiss half fare card is our best option, particularly if we can find a way to visit again within a year.

Our main interests are scenery and art museums.

I've not finished picking our hotels, nor the sites we will visit, but in Luzern we are looking at Titlis, Pilates, and perhaps the Rutli meadow, not to mention Luzern itself. So I'm soliciting advice on setting a workable itinerary.

You could break up the train trip from Lugano to Lucene by stopping in Pontresina /St.Moritz for a night.

I'd do the math again about the Half-Fare Card vs the 3-day Swiss Flexipass and note on the flexipass between the first and third day of unlimited travel (in a one month period) you get 50% off everything that moves in Switzerland in between the first and third 100% travel day.


You take you first two days to cover the longest most expensive days

1- Lugano to Bernina to Chur to Lucerne

2- luzerne to Boltigen (perhaps doing a boat ride on the lake on the same day with pass covering it 100% or going to Ballenberg Museum (museums covered in full only on 100% travel days - about $20 value entry fee i;d think

3- to Geneva (after which pass expires)

As the pass expires when the final flexi day in finished you may want to buy Lucerne-Boltingen at 50% off and save last 100% day till Geneva if you plan to use your pass there on boats or trains.

But i'm not sure if pass would be better but could be and easy to see at www.sbb.ch for real prices in Swiss Francs - then compare the 3 100% travel days with what they would cost at 50% off and also figure in the 99 Swiss Franc cost for the pass and easy to see the difference.

But do not compare the prices for Swiss Passes given on www.sbb.ch with the calculations because Swiss Passes are considerably cheaper if bought in the U.S. rather than at stations in Switzerland - for some reason - at least last time i checked.

Three great sites for Swiss trains: www.swisstravelsystem.com - links you to the Swiss railways site, and scenic trains like Bernina Express, lake boats, buses, etc.; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - the last two have lots of objective info as well as the usual pass prices that many sites only have. the latter lets you download their free European Planning & Rail Guide that has a nice chapter on Switzerland and Swiss trains, etc.

Half-Fare cards can only be bought in Switzerland, at any station.

Maybe you have done all that but just wanted to say don't automatically think Half-Fare card is best (unless coming back in a year i guess).

Thanks for the input. I went back and rechecked, since I hadn't realized that Lugano to Chur to Luzern could be considered a single journey.

We have complicating circumstances. First, I prefer second class for most trips, because it seems a lot friendlier; the first class cars seem to value quiet and isolation; however, on some scenic legs I like first class for the better view. So my plan for Lugano to Luzern would be first class to Chur, then second class to Luzern. The next complication is that I am a youth of 64, while my wife is an elder of 65, and apparently such elders get a break on point to point tickets. In fact, when I put our general itinerary into the engine at Railsaver, they recommended the Swiss flexi 3day pass for me, and point to point tickets for her. I also wasn't sure i could have a lengthy layover in Montreux on our final leg from Boltigen to Geneva, but we do want to see the castle there, which we didn't get to on our last visit, and as I read it, the pass would expire on arrival in Geneva, when we might have enough energy to want to see Lausanne and even Vevey.

So I think I'll sacrifice the museum accesses of the pass, and take the flexibility (and the longer term) of the half fare card. On our last trip we reached an opposite conclusion and bought full passes; it was nice to be able to hop on any train at a whim (or at the weather's whim), but on this trip we plan to do a lot more walking.

The more I read and plan, I think perhaps we will take a couple of days from Geneva and add them to Luzern, where there is more to see than I had realized. We can always see more of Geneva on our next trip.

I know ground transportation in Switzerland is excellent, but calculating whether or not to get a pass or card, or which one, is a real headache, especially if you like some freedom to change your itinerary as you go.

CB -

Scenery and art museums are my 2 favorite things as well.

There are some lovely art museums in Luzern - my favorite is the Rosengart Collection, but there is also a wonderful contemporary art museum that juts out over the lake. For scenery, try the boat portion of the William Tell Express that leaves from Luzern.

I also visited a nice art museum in Lugano, but I can't seem to find the name right now. Lugano is another place where a boat ride will provide amazing scenery.

If you don't mind train rides, you can also check out the Beyeler Foundation and the Kunstmuseum in Basel. You can make a day of these museums. There are many fine small art museums throughout Switzerland and you will discover them in every area.

gruezi

Frommer's most current guidebook refers to a celebrated collection of art at Villa Favorita, but Fodor's most current guidebook reports that estate is now closed to the public, and in my search for information on the museum, I read that the collection has been dispersed to other museums in, I think, Spain.

One of the complications of planning is that things change, but often guidebooks and internet sites are not updated.

Have you considered taking the Palm Express coach from Lugano to St. Moritz then taking the regional trains via Andermatt and Göschenen to Luzern? Chur to Lucerne on the regular fast route is not nearly as adventurous as the trip "over the top". See www.rail.ch - input Andermatt as the intermediate between Chur and Luzern, then get a good map and follow along - it is quite a ride!

I put our general itinerary into the engine at Railsaver, they recommended the Swiss flexi 3day pass for me, and point to point tickets for her>

If one buys a solo 3-day flexipass they will pay about 20% more than if they were a part of a 3-day flexi saverpass - two names on one pass - not sure RailSaver figures that. Railsaver prices however should be considered like Swiss Cheese - full of whole and not always accurate - use the prices in Swiss Francs on the sbb.ch site for the price of regular tickets - including any senior discounts.

And you could leave the third day on a pass until Geneva and use it there.

In Luzern, eat at the Old Swiss House restaurant. Take his sportcoat, your dressy shoes, and your wallet. Order the wienerschnitzel. You will love it.

Have you considered taking the Palm Express coach from Lugano to St. Moritz then taking the regional trains via Andermatt and Göschenen to Luzern?>

Yes the Palm Express is a great scenic bus ride - along Lake Como and then up the switch-backing road up the Majola Pass - really gorgeous scenery.

But unless you stay in St Moritz and then do the Bernina Pass rail excursion from St Moritz as a day trip, then i would take the Bernina Express bus to Tirno, Italy and then take the Bernina Pass rail route over the Bernina Pass to St Moritz and then on.

The Bernina Pass route to me is Europe's most scenic and thrilling rail ride.

(Both buses are covered by a Swiss Pass, even though they go thru a lot of Italy, though you have to pay a small reservation fee.) I just went into the Lugano train station and made a reservation there the day before.

Have you considered taking the Palm Express coach from Lugano to St. Moritz then taking the regional trains via Andermatt and Göschenen to Luzern?>

More on this to me great tip from Dolly - From St Moritz to Lucerne normally you'd take the mainline train from Chur to Zurich then change for Lucerne.

But the route Dolly outlines is prettier if i think a bit slower - at Andermatt (on the Glacier Express route from St Moritz) you take a short steep tiny shuttle train down to Goschenen, which is on the Milan-Zurich mainline, which is also prettier IMO than the Chur-Zurich mainline (esp when you see the Weiskirch (church) go by three times as the train loops around a few times in tunnels)

But at Goschenen, if heading to the Berner Oberland you can also take a dramatic trans-Alpine Swiss Postal bus from there to Meiringen and Lake Brienz with trains to Interlaken or to Lucerne, over the scenic Brunig Pass.

I've been busy reading and planning, and some things have changed. We originally planed to visit Naples as a day trip from Rome, but now find there is a lot we want to see around Naples, so we will go from Rome to Naples, stay four days, then take the train to Lugano. I'll miss not seeing Florence, but we were there a few years ago, and we can go back on another trip.

This will give us a few more days in Switzerland, not a bad thing.

They don't seem to have complete schedules for May out yet, but it appears that the bus from Lugano to Tirino doesn't arrive until about noon, which will put us on the Bernina express that won't arrive in Chur until 1900. The more scenic trains you all have pointed out don't start that late, and I would rather see the scenery during daylight hours, so we will overnight in Chur, then take the scenic route through Andermatt and Göschenen to Luzern the next morning.

I really appreciate having this route pointed out.

Incidentally, I discovered that there are two varieties of Swiss half-fare cards. One costs chf 99 and must be bought at the station in Switzerland; it lasts one month. The other comes in 1, 2, or 3 year issues, with the one-year issue costing chf 150. This requires you to send them a passport photo, which they digitize and keep on record for years. So we went out and got some more passport photos and sent them off with our credit card data. Their web site seemed to say they will send you the cards a few days before you arrive, but I asked them to send ours early, as we will be in Italy without a confidently workable address.

Now I will get back to work finding ways to spend the extra days we will have in Switzerland due to sacrificing Florence. I'm still wondering how best to spend our time in Geneva. On the one hand, I want to stay there to make it easy to get to our 0915 return flight; on the other hand, it seems that most of what we would want to see and eat is in towns near Geneva, rather than in Geneva itself. I suspect we will be day tripping a bit.

So if you do not return to Switzerland within 11 months you will be out a lot of money - about $100 each? But yeh if really planning on going again then that looks like a good deal.

Hi clevelandbrown,

I'm coming late to this discussion, but I hope I can help a bit.

I do love the Lake Geneva region though have stayed in Geneva itself only once; I usually stay in Montreux, which I love. It only takes about 90 minutes to get to the airport by train from Montreux, so please don't rule it out.

Here is my list of things to do based in Montreux -- you may enjoy some of them:

Montreux old town
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Lavaux
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Promenade Fleuri
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...reux_Vaud.html

Morges
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...rges_Vaud.html

Gruyeres
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR..._Fribourg.html

Saanen
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...wiss_Alps.html

Gstaad
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...wiss_Alps.html

Note that Gstaad, Saanen, and Gruyere are closer to Boltigen than they are to Montreux, so you can see them while you're in B.

You may also want to rent a bike for one or two days while there. You can rent from the train stations in Vevey, Lausanne, or Montreux -- then cycle the lakeside promenade or the vineyards of the Lavaux.

Have fun!

s