My family of 5 (3 young children) are vising Switzerland in the middle of March. We are planning to rent a car in Venice and drive the autostrada through Milan and up through Switzerland to the Luzern area.

With 3 kids, would it be easier to drive or use the trains? What would the driving conditions and weather probably be at that time?

Thanks!
Laura

I was in northern Italy and Switzerland last March, and there were some days that it poured rain. I'd considered renting a car, and was very glad I didn't. Wet, unfamiliar mountain roads can be very dangerous, especially with the locals driving too fast.

The train system in that part of the world is great, Switzerland especially. Much less stressful than driving.

Consider the Bernina express for part of your trip. Or the post bus from Chiavenna, through Soglio and on to St. Moritz. At St. Moritz you take a train (we went to Zurich, but I'm sure you can get to Luzern from there as well) Also very scenic. You'll love the snowy, alpine scenery.

Thank you for your reply!

Is the autostrada-type road from Milan also a mountain road, or is it flat? And did you find that you still got to enjoy the beauty of the rural landscape, even from a fast train? (I guess I thought we'd see more of the scenery by car -- although, since you said roads can be dangerous and stressful, we may actually look around and see more of the landscape from a train window, lol!)

There's a no-change train that leaves Venice about noon and arrives at 8 PM. Alternately www.mappy.com says it takes 5 hours to drive -- in good weather.

The car would probably be cheaper (though insurance is required in Italy). On the other hand, the train would probably be better for the kids. Plenty of room, no need to stay in their seats, a toilet at the end of the car. And easier on the would-be driver.

Look at www.weatherbase.com for average temps and precipitation.

I'm not familiar with the road you mention. Sorry!

Oh, we could definitely appreciate the gorgeous views from the train and post busses! A car is obviously better if you want to spontaneously stop in little villages or make your own itinerary. But even with the train and post busses, getting off and on is an option.

Mimar, thanks for the weather site - it was very helpful!

The car does seem to be cheaper than 5 train tickets (even with the outrageous drop-off charge!), and I was concerned when I saw 6 1/2 to 8+ hours on the train -- does that usually turn out to be a really long trip for kids, or could I expect it to go by relatively painlessly?

One other thought--I'm guessing the autostrada is less mountainous than the train routes I suggested. But it's also probably a lot less scenic. If scenery is a priority, you may want to consider that.

Yes, train travel from Venice to Luzern will be time-consuming. Only you know your kids. I would think they'd find the train an adventure.

Is it really cheaper to rent a car? Isn't the drop-off charge hundreds of dollars? Have you factored in gas?

I agree. Before you get all fired up about jumping in a car and heading for Luzern, I suggest you look at the cost.

For the 5 of you, I suggest a larger car for the trip. A Mercedes C class wagon, which will hold 5 passengers according to the diagram, would cost you $1100 for a 3 day rental period.

That is the price offered by Auto Europe, and I find them to be among the more competitive companies.

At about $6.00 a gallon, you would pay about $90.00 for the gas and highway tolls. So you are looking at a transportation cost of about $1,200 dollars.

If you take the train, the shortest travel time requires 2 changes. At one of the changes, you have 4 minutes between trains. The trains are on neighboring tracks, however. You simply walk across the platform. You will, however, need to have everybody at the door ready to get off, hand the luggage down, and get everything and everybody across the platform. I suppose it depends on how well organized you are. Some families can do it.

Possibly some helpful person will assist you, but that is not a given.

The connections requiring 1 change take longer, but the change is in Milan and you have 20 minutes. I am not sure how far you must walk, however, between trains.

We have travelled to Switzerland with our 2 young children (2 and 4) and we MUCH prefer to ride by train. Things to note:

1. You mentioned buying 5 train tickets. In Switzerland, our children travelled for free. We had some kind of a family pass which we got for free with our rail passes, but our kids were so young they would have been free anyway. You should check out whether you really need to buy your "young" children tickets. Or perhaps you will only need tickets for the Italy portion. Sorry I don't have any real information but I do think you should research this a bit if you have not done so already.

2. For my family, I would take 8 hours in a train vs. 5 hours in the car without question. My kids enjoy being on the train. Many have dining cars and most have tables. I bring coloring, small art projects (like gluing and cutting out stuff, etc.), paint with water books, a couple of small toys. . . Plus I always bring a portable dvd player and some dvds - which I highly recommend. No problem walking around, eating, going to the toilet on the train. Plus when you have a change or two it mixes it up a bit, new seats, scenery, etc - I find it helpful in eliminating boredom.

3. 4 minutes to walk across the platform is plently of time. We travel with a side by side all terrain double buggy, 2 kids, a rolling backpack suitcase, a large rolling suitcase, and a carryon backpack (or 2) with things to do for the kids, diapers, etc. and we have never had a problem on short connections. Most often when we do have a stressful time it is because our buggy won't fit through the train doors. But we always figure it out. Maybe 2 minutes of stress.

4. If you are flying out of Switzerland after Lucerne and taking the train to the airport, you may be able to check your bags at the train station and they will check them straight through to the airline for you. Also for future reference if you are travelling by train within Switzerland you can have the trains transport your baggage separately. We have done this before as well.

>The car does seem to be cheaper than 5 train tickets (even with the outrageous drop-off charge!)

How old are your kids? if under 14 you only need to mention them on your ticket and then you buy 2 (not 5) tickets.

It's not a *** airline.

Altamiro beat me to it. You children will travel on Swiss trains for free if you get the right kind of tickets or pass. Where else are you going in Switzerland? A "Swiss transfer ticket" costs about $94 U.S. and gets you two days of travel, one from the Swiss border to your destiniation (Luzern), and one from your last city stop back to the border (or airport). You buy this in the US before you go, and request a family card, which is free, and will cover your children age 15 and under.

So total cost is about $190, not counting the portion in Italy (which would be from Venice to Milan, and Milan to Lugano in the Ticino). Most trips are about 7 hours with one or 2 train changes. It's a very scenic train trip and your kids would enjoy it, I think.

I understand the idea of having infants/toddlers for free - but with older kids where do they sit? Assuming the train is full the adults that have paid for seats obviously have priority. If you have 3 non-payig kids do they all have to sit on the parents laps? Or in the aisles? Or???

(I've only done a train through Switzerland once and it was quite - but not completely full. So don't know the chance of this ocurring. But twice I've done train trips out of London when the train was more than completely full - people were even standing in the aisle. In that case what do you do with the free kids?)

We've probably taken more than 40 trains around Switzerland, always in second class and without reservations. So there's no problem with where the kids, or the adults, sit.

The only time we could not find seats was on a train going into Zürich from Bern on the day of the Love Parade, when thousands and thousands of people pour into the train station.

To clarify---the "paying adults" do not have "priority" over the non-paying children who are traveling on a pass.

Only people who have paid to actually reserve a seat have "priority". In practice, only a few people on the main inter-city runs, and the designated "Panorama trains" actually reserve seats.

Even traveling in groups ranging from seven to fourteen people, we have never had a problem finding seats, other than the one time I mentioned. The Love Parade Day is a pretty unusual circumstance.

Also, if one is concerned about seating, you can pay the reservation fee (a few francs) and reserve seats for kids traveling on a family pass.

Thanks to all for your helpful responses!

I did not know about the free tickets -- I had researched prices on the sbb site, but I had to submit an order and they replied that I had to go through trenitalia. That site did quote me a price -- that it'd be over $800! I will now look into family passes and point-to-point tickets, such as by your route, enzian.

The reason I'd wanted a car wasn't just to get from Venice to Luzern, but also to detour through Vicenza (to show my children where I lived as a kid), then to use the car to sightsee easily around Luzern.

But we could get a taxi in Vicenza. The big question then, I guess, is about trains around Switzerland -- is it easy to get between towns around the lakes, etc.?

Also, where2, I'd just read today about being able to send our bags ahead by train. Will we find out how to do that when we get there, or does someone know a website?

Thanks!

Hi Laura:

That's quite an undertaking with 3 small children. The weather is iffy, you'll need winter clothes which means more baggage and you'll have to keep them motivated.

Car vs. Train

It's a tough call.

Car:
Advantage: Flexibility and room for storage. You don't have to load and unload everything.

Disadvantage: Stress caused by Italian roads and possible snowy Swiss roads as well as cost.

Train:
Advantage: No driving! The kids can walk around on the train. Trains are punctual.

Disadvantage: Baggage storage. Hand-baggage and small suitacases are easy to store. Big suitcases are more difficult. You are also dependent on timetables.

If you are planning on only 3 bases for your trip, then take the train. Otherwise, consider a car.

Road conditions in March: hard to say. We are still waiting for our snow but it should come this week.

Switzerland is fabulous for clearing roads. Minutes after a snowfall, snow ploughs and salt trucks are on the roads in the higher elevations. Slushy snow and visibility on the autobahn at lower elevations can be a problem.

The site for check in at the railstation is below:

http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reisemarkt/...er/flyrail.htm

Apparently you go to the rail station the day before, hand them your checked bags, and they will print you a boarding card. There is an attachment on that link that shows airlines that offer the service and some airlines do not offer it.

We looked into the "fly rail baggage" system where you can check your bags with the airline and they will forward them to the trains and you just pick them up at the rail station. We flew Easy Jet from London and they did not offer this service but I am fairly sure RailEurope sells the transfer tickets to attach to the bags you are forwarding. It seems like people do this a lot with skis and other winter sports equipment.

When we flew into Switzerland, we went to the rail station baggage counter and asked them to transfer our bags, but since the flight was so late in the day, they couldn't guarantee that the bags would get there same day and we did not want to go without the bags for the night as I had not packed appropriately for this. Having the bags was no big deal. But when we left Grindelwald for Zermatt, we checked the bags in the morning at the Grindelwald station and they got to Zermatt by 8pm I believe. The stations had information on the service and it seemed like it was not an unusual request. From Zermatt to the airport, we did not check the bags as Easy Jet did not allow full check in and it wasn't such a big deal for us to keep our bags so we didn't do it. You can click around the site above and you should find information on all of these services.

One of the reasons we go to Switzerland is because it is easy to get around without a car. My kids are horrible in the car but love trains and it is fantastic for us. Sometimes we use a taxi to get us somewhere out of the way, but not very often. That being said, we always stay in hotels in a town (not apartments just outside of town) so train transport is very accessable to us.

Also, if I am certain of the times of my journey, I occasionally reserve seats on a train. I do this because some trains are configured with tables with 4 seats around them and it is better for my kids to sit at these tables. Also, some trains have compartments (not sure if the Swiss trains do. . . ) and you can reserve a compartment for your family so you can shut the door and not disturb other passengers. It costs a few euro per seat and we have only done it a few times.

I just want to raise another couple points. If you have a lot of luggage, you may have to rent a bigger car. Cars that carry 5 people can't always handle 5 peoples' luggage.

And the train/bus/boat connections are wonderful in Switzerland. Your kids might enjoy a trip on the postbus, very modern but with an oldfashioned horn (sounds like a stage coach).

Schuler, you hit the nail on the head for me with your list of advantages and disadvantages, since those points are exactly what has made this decision so difficult! And Mimar, I agree that while I was concerned about all the luggage on the train, I then became concerned about that same luggage in a trunk, and I don't know if that can even happen, lol!

Thank you, there2, for taking the time to describe your experience with sending bags on the train -- that is invaluable information I will be researching.