scrb

Here's what they offered:

<b>Interlaken is the most perfect place for excursions to
Jungfraujoch as well as Zermatt/Gornergrat.
So we suggest
28.01.07 Z&uuml;rich, Hotel Central Plaza
29.01.07 Interlaken, Hotel Metropole with Jungfrau view
30.01.07 excursion Jungfraujoch/Top of Europe
31.01.07 Zermatt, excursion Gornergrat
01.02.07 Schilthorn with its revolving restaurant
the film On Her Majesty Secret Service was turned there
If you like walking in the snow, visit of the car free village M&uuml;rren
on the way to the Schilthorn
or a visit to Bern capital of Switzerland
02.02.07 Departure for Geneva
On the way to Interlaken, 29.01.07, you could do an overstop in
Lucerne, one of the prettiest town of Switzerland, with lake cruise e.g.
50% reduction.
If you agree to stay 4 nights in Interlaken
you will get a reduction of CHF 150.00
CHF 1090.00 for the package
CHF 250.00 supplement night in Z&uuml;rich</b>

I don't think this is a tour in the sense of a guided thing with specific schedules so much as they book some hotels and give you a bunch of train tickets.

I think they mentioned a reservation for the panoramic train but otherwise, I got the sense that I had to make it to the trains I wanted to take.

swandav2000

Hi,

That tour is sending you from Interlaken to Zermatt for a day-trip?? That's 3h30 on the train each way, so seven hours on a train for the day. You don't have that much time, and I wouldn't advise you to waste one day on that four-walled, moving carriage.

Again, I don't recommend staying in Interlaken.

s

scrb

Yeah apparently.

I didn't realize it was 3.5 hours each way. They said Zermatt to Geneva was 4 hours so I didn't think it would be almost as long from Interlaken.

Well if I can't find accommodations in Zermatt, then I will probably skip it, spend more time in Geneva, Zurich or Interlaken.

kleeblatt

Hi scrb,

Lots of Swiss don't make it to Zermatt because it's so out of the way. And there are so many other mountains to visit.

scrb

Well if I could find accommodations for just one night in Zermatt and the Swiss Pass covers trains from Interlaken/Wengen/Grindelwald to Zermatt and Zermatt-Geneva, then I will try to do it.

Looks like I could take an early train out of the Bernese Oberland area and arrive in Zermatt before noon. Then spend the night and then leave for Geneva the next day.

kbrennan

What is the Berner Oberland like at the beginning of April? We will be staying in Lauterbrunnen for 4 days.

Melnq8

As swandav pointed out, the Swiss Pass IS valid for train transport to Grindelwald. However, you must pay to get from Grindelwald to the Jungfrau (50% reduction with pass) and from Wengen to the Jungfrau (50% reduction with pass). You can get to the Jungfrau from either side via Kleine Schiedegg.

I'm with swandav, Interlaken would definitely not be my choice. We based ourselves in Interlaken one year and deeply regretted it.

The Swiss Pass DOES cover all the trains you mention -

&quot;from Interlaken/Wengen/Grindelwald to Zermatt and Zermatt-Geneva...&quot;

Everything your tour operator has suggested can be done on your own with a Swiss Pass and a few hotel reservations. I suggest you do a price comparion to see if it's cheaper on your own.

I wouldn't suggest that schedule though - way too much IMO. With your limited time, I'd suggest skipping Zermatt - definitely wouldn't go there on a day trip.

Just looked up sunrise/sunset times in Switzerland in February - sun rises around 7:45 and sets around 5:30.

scrb

&lt;quote&gt;I wouldn't suggest that schedule though - way too much IMO. With your limited time, I'd suggest skipping Zermatt - definitely wouldn't go there on a day trip.&lt;/quote&gt;

Well I was thinking of going to Zermatt after spending a night in Interlaken/Wengen/Grindlewald. Then I'd get there before noon, sightsee until sunset, then spend the night, then leave for Geneva in the morning.

But it is an extra 7 hour of transit (although would get the most out of that Swiss Pass).

Is the train ride to and from Zermatt scenic?

Or could that train ride time and the night in Zermatt be better spent with more time in Zurich, Geneva or points in-between?

Melnq8

Yes, the train ride to Zermatt is very scenic - it's part of the Glacier Express route.

Personally, I wouldn't make the journey to Zermatt for less than 2-3 full days. Made that mistake years ago when I went there on a day trip and found I had no time to do anything once I got there - not to mention the crowds during the high season.

If you're set on going and you plan your time well, you might be able to fit in a trip to the Gornergrat - the Gornergrat station is near where you'll arrive in Zermatt and trains leave 2-3 times an hour. Be sure to leave yourself plenty of time to spend up top.

Kleine Matterhorn is an option too, but you'll need to walk a bit to the cable station. Can't remember how long it takes, but be prepared to stand in line with lots of skiers.

Keep in mind if you're going to Zermatt from Wengen or Grindelwald, the journey will be even longer than from Interlaken.

Please report back if you're able to find a hotel room in Zermatt for only one night during the high ski season.

scrb

Well there is a search engine at zermatt.ch. Tried it, said no availability.

But you could submit a request and someone will apparently check it out. We'll see if we hear back.

What are the chances of buying affordable winter gear for the mountains in Zurich? All they have here are ski coats and such. So it would be nice to find something more stylish in the way of a coat, gloves, maybe something to cover up the head and ears, boots.

Melnq8

Affordable winter gear in Zurich? Highly unlikely. Switzerland is expensive. Two years ago our luggage was lost on a trip from Singapore to Switzerland in December. We were in dire need of hats and gloves, so purchased some we found &quot;on sale&quot; in Switzerland. Basic fleece hats and gloves cost us well over $100. The same items would have run about $40 at home.

scrb

I know it would be more expensive, what with VAT and exchange rates.

If I can get a nice parka for a $300 or so, it'd be good.

Because the pickings are slim out here in California.

Melnq8

Perhaps someone living in Switzerland will chime in regarding what you might expect to pay for winter gear.

Do you have an REI where you live?

There's always mail order too - like LL Bean, Cabelas, etc.

scrb

There is an REI. Haven't been in awhile though but it's like camping gear wear mostly isn't it? Not heavy-duty mountain wear?

There used to be North Face stores too.

Guess I could get some Gore-Tex stuff.

scrb

Well there are plenty of accommodations for 2/1 to 2/2. Lot of little B&amp;Bs they found.

Really nice service at zermatt.ch.

Now is 8 hours of sitting in a train for one night worth it or can I spend the time better elsewhere?

scrb

Hmm another suggestion was to skip Bernese Oberland and go to St. Moritz and then on to Zermatt.

Supposedly southern Switzerland is clear when it's often snowing or raining in Bernese Oberland and points north?

Also the idea was to wait until the last possible minute and base the itinerary on the weather forecast. But if I wait that long, I worry about accommodations.

Do trains get interrupted by bad weather?

kleeblatt

Make some decisions and stick to them.

I wouldn't go to Ticino in the winter.

Trains are rarely disrupted by bad weather. It's avalanches and slides that might cover the tracks that could postpone a train.

You're only one week on Switzerland and can't do it all. I've been here twenty years and haven't seen it all.

Here's a possible itinerary:

1. Night: Stay in Lucerne/Z&uuml;rich. Go to ABM, Migros, Vogeli or Manor for winter clothes. Slim pickings at that time of year here too though.

Coats: SFr. 100 (on sale) - 600.
Gloves: SFr. 20 - 120
Hat: SFr. 20 up
Scarf: SFr. 15 up

2-3 Night: Go somewhere in BO for two days.

4-5 Night: Go to Zermatt

6 Night: Go to Vevey or Montreux. Visit the castle in Montreux.

Fly home.

No one can predict the weather. We've had incredibly mild temperatures till now. Hiking in light coats. Very little snow in sight. Ski runs aren't open because it's too warm for snow-making machines.

We are hoping for snow in the next two weeks.

scrb

I'm getting there, believe it or not.

I'm thinking of a 4-day Swiss Rail Pass, which I would use from Tues-Fri or days 3-6.

That means day 1-2, I would spend in Zurich. Maybe day 2, I spend the night in Luzern. Or even go to Interlaken OST, leaving late in the afternoon/evening.

It would help if I could leave my bags in Zurich hotel after checking out on the morning of day 2. If not, then I would just go early to Luzern, leave bags at hotel and look around there.

Day 3 morning, go from Zurich/Luzern to Wengen. Spend night in Wengen.

Day 4 morning (again, if I could leave my bags until afternoon, I would sightsee more), go to Zermatt. Spend night in Zermatt.

Day 5 sightsee Zermatt, spend night again.

Day 6, off to Geneva, maybe after checking into hotel in Geneva, go back to Montreux in the afternoon or spend time in Geneva.

Day 7 morning, fly back.

My questions concern the nuts and bolts of the trains. Regarding the panoramic trains as listed on goldenpass.ch, I looked at their reservations page and it looks like panoramic is only for first class? So I would have to buy 1st-class Swiss Pass?

Secondly, how are the panoramic trains reflected on the schedule search results shown on rail.ch or sbb.ch? I see notes on the right column for IC, R, Regio.

Third, a lot of these routes require changing trains? For instance, from Zurich to Wengen, it appears changing trains to a particular platform at Interlaken OST and depending on which train, maybe also at Bern as well?

altamiro

&gt;My questions concern the nuts and bolts of the trains. Regarding the panoramic trains as listed on goldenpass.ch, I looked at their reservations page and it looks like panoramic is only for first class? So I would have to buy 1st-class Swiss Pass?

No, you can buy an 1st class upgrade (= the price difference between the 1st and 2nd class single ticket) for a particular trip.

Secondly, how are the panoramic trains reflected on the schedule search results shown on rail.ch or sbb.ch?

(rail.ch is just the english variation of sbb.ch, so no difference). Usually not at all. In the printed timetables there is often a sign looking like a snow covered mountain peak above the train run description. But seriously you will see all you need to see from a normal train wndow as well.

&gt;I see notes on the right column for IC, R, Regio.

Yes, that's a train type. Has not much to do with whether there is a panoramic car lined into the particular train or not.

&gt;Third, a lot of these routes require changing trains? For instance, from Zurich to Wengen, it appears changing trains to a particular platform at Interlaken OST and depending on which train, maybe also at Bern as well?

Yes. Nothing to do about it. The changes usually work very well. You always have to change in Interlaken because it is the end of the normal-gauge line. Trains to Wengen or Grindelwald run on the 1000 mm gauge.
As to change in Bern - people from Basel also want direct connections to Interlaken, so every second train from Interlaken via Bern goes to Basel, the others to Z&uuml;rich and beyond.

Mimar

REI sells expedition gear, so I imagine you can find something warm enough there.

Also you might want to look at www.ricksteves.com for train passes and maps.