scrb

Would be flying into Zurich and flying out of Geneva for one-week, Sunday to Saturday.

Thought about doing this in November (during this Thanksgiving week as a matter of fact) but people advised that it just rains, no snow.

Don't ski but I rather see snow than rain.

So is a railpass going to allow me to see the snow-capped mountains as well as get me from ZRH to GVA in the course of 6 days?

Air fares are really good and I would imagine hotels are relatively less pricey? Or does the ski season make it a high season for hotel prices there?

swandav2000

Hi scrb,

Yes, January and February are high season for ski resorts, and the hotels will be charging their premium rates. You can minimize this impact a bit if you choose to stay in a city a little bit away from the resort areas, like Bern or Thun.

If you're thinking about Jan-Feb 07, you may find that the best hotels in the resorts are already sold out. You may also find that the hotels require a seven-night stay.

You probably don't need a railpass for a trip like this, which looks to have not a lot of rail travel. You can try out your itinerary at www.railsaver.com (click on "only if it saves me money&quot to see an estimate of your rail charges. Perhaps a simple Transfer Card or Swiss Card would work for you. Take a look at all the passes at www.swisstravelsystem.com.

Good luck!

s

kleeblatt

We just got our first snow today. I live at a 950 meter elevation. The mountains are most definitely snow-capped now. The last few days were rainy and before that we had beautiful and abnormally warm weather. Goes to show that weather cannot be predicted.

In Jan/Feb, you should have more chances of snow than rain. It's a beautiful time of the year where you can see skiers whooshing down the slopes, cross country skiers glide through fields of snow and even sledders hugging snow-banked curves as they yell with glee down the run.

It may be high season but many schools won't have winter vacation till later, so you should still find rooms.

Where would you like to go when you're here? Berner Oberland? Wallis? Engadin? Lots of fun choices to make.

Dukey

I cannot speak for those particular months but two years ago when we last visited (in early April) I was pleasantly surprised how it was basically snow-clear in Brig and then as we proceeded eastward and upward into the Goms and beyond the countryside was totally snow-covered...a nice contrast.

Whereas I would agree with Swanday about a pass, some sort of Swiss Travel System product might be useful IF you are going to spend a lot of time riding all over the place which you could easily do in a week remembering that Switzerland is about the size of West Virginia.

suze

You need to have a general idea of how many train journeys you will be taking, to figure out if a pass, a half-pass, or just buying point-to-point tickets is what you need for the train.

At lake level (Geneva) it does not snow very often.

WallyKringen

The big cities - Zürich, Bern, Genève - are at elevations of 500 m or so and don'toften get snow that sticks for very long.

That's why Schuler asked "Where would you like to go when you're here? Berner Oberland? Wallis? Engadin? Lots of fun choices to make." So consider going up higher - either to stay, or at least on daytrips from a lower location.

Melnq8

scrb -

We're planning to visit Switzerland in early Feb. We haven't booked a place to stay yet due to some logistical issues, but last time I checked, there was no shortage of available rooms with the notable exception of Zermatt. FYI - many hotels and most apartments require a week long stay during the high season.

Keep in mind that Jan 12, 13 & 14 is the World Ski Cup which is held in Wengen and it will be next to impossible to find a room in the BO during this time - not to mention incredibly expensive.

We've been to Switzerland twice over Thanksgiving, and based on our experience, you were smart to wait until January. Just about everything was closed in the alpine villages. We got snow both times though.

We plan to buy a Swiss Saver Pass, which has worked well for us in the past. They're a good deal if you plan to travel around quite a bit.

scrb

Thanks for the replies all.

"Where would you like to go when you're here? Berner Oberland? Wallis? Engadin? Lots of fun choices to make."

OK, I must admit I haven't looked at this in awhile. I'm actually in Buenos Aires on a slow "broadband" connection but I was thinking if I want to go in January, I better get something set up soon.

I would definitely want to spend at least a couple of full days in both big cities so that probably doesn't leave time to really go far to the resorts.

Ideally, it would be a couple of higher elevation places easily reached on the rail line between ZRH and GVA.

Just enough to take in the scenery. If there were such places without having to deviate too far from the main rail line, I could probably do with stopping for half a day or maybe like 4-5 hours.

Of course, for a 1-week trip, it would also be easier if I didn't have to pack anything special for the snow. All I have is an old ski jacket and pants but it would be somewhat absurd to lug that stuff all the way from California for one day and I don't even plan to ski.

I guess I would at least need good boots, in case the snow isn't cleared when I'm in such areas. Like arriving in the morning after a storm or something.

It is some trouble but I want to see those snow-capped Swiss Alps. But that's really to the south isn't it, nearer to Italy than ZRH or GVA?

Melnq8

There's always Engelberg, which is easily accessible by train from Zurich and Lucerne. A day trip there would give you a nice taste of the alps, even if you don't plan to ski.

swandav2000

Hi scrb,

As Melnq8 says, Engelberg is a great choice -- it's not far from the main rail line, and it's a mountain village.

Another options would be to take the Golden Pass route from north to south, hitting Luzern, Interlaken, Gstaad, & Montreux before reaching Geneva. (Go to www.goldenpass.ch to see the route). This is a fairly standard first-timers route that goes close to the peaks of the Berner Oberland before rolling through the hills of the Pays d'Enhaut and then the vineyards of the Lake Geneva region. Going the whole way at once is a full-day's event, but you'll see a lot. Of course, you don't have to do the whole thing in one day -- you could stop in the Berner Oberland, or in Gstaad (technically still in the far west of the BO but closer in spirit and geography to the Pays d'Enhaut).

If you decide to do the GP route, you can take a detour from Interlaken to see the Top of Europe at the Jungfraujoch and also see a mountain village or two.

Good luck!

s

suze

You can see Alps from the Geneva area. Do you need to be IN the mountains or just to look at them from afar (second is easier obviously). Geneva has some excellent shopping.

scrb

Not really big on shopping. Would be interested in the things every big city has to offer, food, culture, history.

But the idea is, if I'm going in the winter, I might as well catch and capture (photograph) some of the scenery unique to the country.

How long does a direct route from ZRH to GVA take on the train? How long a detour is Engleburg?

I will check out the Golden Pass.

But I may have to reassess a bit too. When I checked air fares last week, ITA showed $845 on Air France. Go to the Air France site, where they're running a sale for trips booked through Nov. 27 and it comes out to $961. But now, ITA is showing $808 complete.

Only a couple of hundred which I can afford. But it's either take a trip in January/Feb or save the vacation days for the fall and maybe go elsewhere.

Melnq8

Per the Swiss Rail site (see link below) the most direct route from Zurich to Geneva takes 2:45. Zurich to Engelberg is 2:07, Geneva to Engelberg is 4:16 and Luzern to Engelberg is 1 hour.

http://www.sbb.ch/en/

Cicerone

There is no high elevation place on the rail line “between” Zurich and Geneva, the countryside between them is rolling hills, but no Alp areas. If you want to be in higher Alp elevations in Switzerland, you have to go south and in some cases east of both places. I would not spend the majority of my vacation time in either Zurich or Geneva (esp the latter), and I used to live in Zurich and think it is a great little city. But IMO Switzerland is about the countryside, not the cities. The cities are very clean and pleasant, but IMO to spend 6 days in them and just pass by the countryside is to miss the point. Geneva is not Rome by any stretch of the imagination.

I think that the Alps are nore beautiful in winter than summer when they are blanketed in thick snow (and they are pretty stunning in summer) Even if you don't ski, there are so many things you can do in the mountains like winter walks, cross country skiing, sledding, horse drawn sleigh rides, balloning, paragliding, or just sitting by a fire sipping mulled wine and admiring the view from a window. You can also take cable cars up and get great views during the ride and from the top, and then take the car back down again. There are some wonderful train rides up to and in the mountains as well.

Jan and Feb are great months for taking train trips generally as you will get clear weather (barring snowstorms of course which do happen), but you will get days of clear sunny weather which are great for the train trips. If I had my druthers I would pick Feb as opposed to Jan, as Dec and Jan are typically colder and snowier, but if you have to go in Jan that should be find too. In my years living in Switzerland it always seemed that the very best ski and snow conditions were in February (to me the best ski condition is a totally clear and sunny day where it has snowed heavily the night before). I have been in Zermatt in Jan when it was so cold and windy that cable cars had to be closed.

IMO the very best train trip to take from Zurich is the Bernina Express (go to http://www.rhb.ch), but if you don’t want to commit to that whole day trip, then I would just take the regular train from Zurich to St Mortiz for the day. The hour or so between Tefencastle and St Mortiz is especially beautiful in winter as the little red train winds around and climbs up the valley. There are two wonderful very long sledge runs (like a runner sled) in this valley at Bergun, one is something like 8 kilometres long, great fun if you want to get out into the snow. (It’s also lit at night for night sledging.) You can have lunch in St Moritz and walk around, or take the train over the very, very lovely village of Guarda. You could even consider staying in Guarda for a night or two and making day trips from there. (Train trip to Guarda is not as lovely as a good bit is now through a long tunnel, but you could make the train trip from St Mortiz one way, as the trip between the two is only an hour or so.)

If you do go in mid-January, you can make a day trip to the World Cup in Wengen from Zurich, it is a long day but extremely doable and a fun day as well. Take a look at http://www.wengen.com/evelhr.html. I agree trying to get a hotel room then is too hard, but at any other time you might consdier overnighting in this very lovely area.

If air fares are getting high for Switzerland, you could look into flying into Milan, it’s only a 4 hour train trip from there to Zurich (and a very pretty one at that), it is also more doable for getting to Zermatt and then on to Geneva or even Zurich.

scrb

The week I'm thinking about is Jan 27 to Feb 3. There really is nothing worth seeing in Geneva? Or the train from ZRH to GVA isn't scenic?

One of the reason for going to GVA is to make the return flight just a bit easier, departing at 7:30 and giving you almost two hours at CDG to switch terminals. From ZRH, it would be departing at 7 AM and then having about an hour to switch flights.

From previous experience, AF schedules these very tight schedules through CDG and sometimes, you're likely to get bumped. I've had to spend a night at some airport hotel or find my checked luggage arriving a day later.

So if I go from ZRH to St. Moritz, can I then go west towards GVA or do I need to return to ZRH?

Maybe I could go to St. Moritz for a day, then Interlaken. Is Zermatt worth going to? How about Lugano? Can you go direct from Zermatt to GVA or do you go through Interlaken?

Still need to check out the Golden Pass and see what kind of accommodations are available.

Thought I would spend 2-3 days each in the two big cities and maybe rent apartments in one or both. But maybe fly into ZRH on Jan 28, leave towards St. Moritz on Jan 30 morning, figure out the rest of the days in between and then arrive in GVA the afternoon/evening of Feb. 2 and fly out the morning of Feb. 3. Or maybe get into GVA in the morning of Feb. 2 if possible or the previous day.

Cicerone

The train trip between Zurich and Geneva is quite pretty in parts, esp the last hour or so, but there are no really high Alpine views, although when you get to Lake Geneva you will get some very nice views of the Alps for 20 minutes or so. Mostly is it just rolling green hills and fields, pretty but not spectacular compared to some of the other train rides in Switzerland.

There are some things to see in Geneva and the lake towns along the lake; I have posted on things to do and see in Geneva before and can repost. The old town of Geneva is small but pretty and there are a few musuems, but there are no significant ruins, churches or buildings of historic, archtectural or artistic significance which you may be used to seeing in other European cities. The musuemas are better in Zurich as well. My feeling is that if one is in Geneva for business then great, there are things to do, but I would not say to make a trip especially TO Geneva (or even to Zurich for that matter) when there is the great Swiss countryside to see. It's like going to Arizona and spending all your time in Pheonix and missing the Grand Canynon..The lake towns along the shore east of Geneva like Vevey, Lausanne, Montreux, and the wine villages above these are very nice as well, however in Jan and Feb they are really not at their best, they will be quite brown and ferries are running on a very abbreviated schedule, and IMO taking ferries on the huge and scenic Lake Geneva is one of the pleasures of the area, as are the walks which won’t be that great in Jan and Feb. This area is one of my favourite regions and I would normally recco it for lots of activities, but not really so much in Jan and Feb; especially when the mountain areas will really be quite gorgeous with snow and blue skies. But if you want to go to this area, I would recco that you stay in Vevey, Lausanne or Montreux rather than Geneva as the towns are smaller, more charming and the views are much better. You can make a day trip to Geneva if you want. You can get to Geneva airport just about as easily. (There is an apartment I have been dying to rent myself in Epesses near Lausanne, take a look at http://www.vrbo.com/58903.)

I think Zermatt is quite spectacular actually and something you won’t forget. You can take trains and cable cars up for good views and pictures and there are some good winter walks in the area as well. You can take a train from Zurich to Zermatt, and from Zermatt to Geneva, each require only 1 change near Zermatt. You can also take a train from the Interlaken area to Zermatt. Again, go to rail.ch and also get a map as this will help you locate the places you are talking about, you will see how far south Zermatt is. IMO with only 7 days, you should not try to “do” more than 3 places (and 2 places with day trips would be better IMO), or you will be rushing it and won’t get to experience any of these places. So if you really want to spend time in both Zurich and Geneva, then only pick one mountain place. Virtually every place on your list requires at least a 3-hour train ride, and many require 4-6 hour train journeys, which will eat into your time quite considerably. While Switzerland is small, because of its mountainous terrain, train trips take longer than you would think.

For train schedules, look at rail.ch. That will tell you how long your trips would take and where you would need to make connections. To go from St Moritz to Geneva you do have to change in Zurich, but I would not let this stop you from making the trip. St Moritz to Interlaken is doable, the shortest route appears to take 5.5 hours and also requires going back to Zurich. To get to Geneva from the Interlaken area, you could also consider taking the Golden Pass train from Interlaken to Geneva, a very scenic ride. You could also stop in Gstaad for a few hours. There are many choices really.

I would not go to Lugano in Jan and Feb. This is really a spring, summer and early fall location. It is known for gardens and its spring-like atmosphere, which you will not find in Jan and Feb.

Melnq8

scrb -

Zermatt is definitely worth visiting, but as I mentioned earlier, some hotels and most apartments require a week long stay during the high winter season and most rent from Sat-Sat.

IMO Zermatt is not a good place for a day trip but better suited for longer stays. We went to Zermatt as a day trip once from Interlaken and spent the whole time getting there and back, leaving little time to actually see Zermatt. Keep in mind the days are really short in the winter too.

scrb

OK, found a good fare so pulled the trigger, flying into ZRH and flying out of GVA. I have 5 full days and arrive on Sunday, Jan 28th at 2:25 PM (giving me a "half" day) and fly out on the morning of Saturday Feb. 3.

I have to really study the train schedules. The Golden Pass only has one route, Zurich-Luzern-Interlaken-Zweissimen-Montreux-Geneva? So with the pass you would stop at as many of these places as you'd want?

Perhaps I could try to spend a day and a half in ZRH (Sunday and Monday nights, go directly to Interlaken (leaving ZRH Tuesday morning) for a day and then stay overnight in Zermat (Wednesday and Thursday, then head to Geneva (Friday, hopefully arriving Friday afternoon to have some time before flying out Saturday morning).

scrb

Has anyone had any experiences with the Jungfrau Tours?

For instance, the 7 day/6 nights one might work:

http://www.jungfrautours.ch/index.ph...ss&lang=en

Would be essentially trading a day in Zurich to shop and sightsee in Lucerne instead. That's assuming when I get off the plane at ZRH at 2:25 PM on Sunday, I could hop on the train to Lucerne.

Or I could take one of the other rail/hotel packages for 5 nights, saving half day at each end for ZRH and GVA.

Such as:

http://www.jungfrautours.ch/index.ph...at&lang=en

I would go back out to the airport I guess to board the train (would be nicer if I could depart from a downtown station).

Do the lakes package make sense at the end of January?

http://www.jungfrautours.ch/index.ph...es&lang=en

With this, I wouldn't have to worry about apartments for less than a week since I would be constantly on the move.

Only concern is whether they move you too quickly from place to place, giving you only a chance to see some attraction and then get right back on the train again.

W9London

As for Geneve attraction, I was impressed by the Patel Philippe museum even though I was not into watches.

If you're heading to BO via Montreaux, don't miss Chillon. We enjoyed a guided tour of the castle.