Palenque

Ummh - reclining seat on CNL vs Couchette on a regular overnight train

Having taken both many times i myself may opt for the reclining seat on CNL - having a modicum of privacy and not being cooped up with potentially six people all told if all berths are full

With the reclining chair, which on CNLs are to me at least not bad, you can freely get up to go to the loo, stretch, etc but in a couchette once the door closes and lights go off and if you are way up in the third level, etc getting down and out, without waking others, is much harder.
But OTOH with a couchette you do get a sheet, blanket and pillow and if the compartment is not full you could have it much nicer but IMO couchettes are a crap shoot - having taken literally zillions of them i can attest to that - usually nice upright folk but at times a night from Hell IMO.

Now for as to why one is two hours faster - i'll research that and be back!

Palenque

Ok i see the train that takes about 13 hours takes a more direct route - via Salzburg, Lienz and up thru Ceske Budejovice (sp?) to Prague

whilst the two-hour longer CNL backtracks to Basel then goes up to Frankfurt and then over to Prague - it no doubt goes faster on the tracks but covers much more distance - no doubt to serve several cities in Germany

But to me leaving about three hours earlier and arriving an hour earlier would be my choice - the CNL- the earlier the better arriving and often by 8pm i'm ready for a lie down rather than dwelling time in a train station awaiting the later train. That's my take at least.

Palenque

kale.... have you gone to www.bahn.de - the German rail site and looked for the so-called PREM fares - if you are looking for fares from raileurope.com do not think those are the only fares available. bahn.de regularly offers deep discounts, which of course tend to sell out in their allotted numbers weeks early. But if you have not check it out (a good way to reach the English schedule page of the Wunderbar bahn.de site is to hop to the home page of www.budgeteuropetravel.com and click on the link "The best European railways timetable" or some such wordage and this brings you into the English page of bahn.de - i reference that home page because it also gives you several useful tips for novices using the fantastic bahn.de site. And since CNL is a German train going mainly thru Germany bahn.de may have discounted online fares.

kaleighmh

Thanks so much for your opinion about the couchette/reclining seats and the suggestion of the Bahn website! I had looked at the SBB website and requested a fare through them, but the German website appears to have a better price than SBB or raileurope. Also, when I check raileurope just now, it looks like the price for CNL has gone way up, not sure why! So I will be booking through Bahn I think. I need to do a little more research because their website is incredibly confusing to me- I just want to sure I'm getting the right thing! It says that I can print the ticket at home- have you ever done this? Do you still go to the ticket counter, or just get straight on the train with your printed ticket?

swandav2000

Hi kaleighmh,

I buy discount tickets from bahn.de often, and yes it's easy and efficient to buy online and print yourself. You'll get a pdf that you can save and print. You simply board the train with this ticket.

You also have to indicate a credit card (not necessarily the same one you bought the ticket with) as a piece of identification. When the conductor comes along, you hand over your ticket and the credit card you indicated. The conductor will scan the bar code on your ticket and compare against the cc.

I'll only add that you need to be sure you have the time and date that you really want, as of course these discount tickets are not changeable. Be sure to use the European date format of day.month.year!

Have fun!

s

kaleighmh

Very cool, thanks swandav for that info! Printing at home should be on option for all tickets on all sites, that sounds very convenient!

Palenque

Also, when I check raileurope just now, it looks like the price for CNL has gone way up, not sure why!>

I'm not sure why either but RailEurope has recently begin launching discounted tickets - not as cheap as though on bahn.de but sometimes not much higher - but these are also in strictly limited numbers so that price tier may well have been exhausted by the next time you checked. But bahn.de pricing cannot be beat for advance discounted tickets and, unlike other national railway sites like trenitalia.com and www.voyages-sncf.com, seems to be user friendly and easy to use.

tipsygus

Sorry way back in March you asked why I suggested walking from Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg rather than the other way round. Quite simply the view, you will be walking toward the Eiger, Monch and jungfrau rather than away from them. It's an easy walk I think the signposts suggest 11/2 hours I did in less and I'm not that fit for walking at that alititude, and I had photo stops. I hope to that walk again in September and the one down from Kleine Scheidegg to Grindelwald, or at least part of the way.

Palenque

I hope to that walk again in September and the one down from Kleine Scheidegg to Grindelwald, or at least part of the way.>

I have hiked - not walked - up from Grindelwald to Kl Scheidegg and that is one long haul - but great - again you, like on Mannlichen to Kl Scheidegg have the Jungfrau Massif to ponder all the way - actually it's fairly steep going down and constant breaking to me at least can be as fatiguing as climbing. We followed the course of the train most of the way, figuring that the railway took the easiest course.

Palenque

I've also walked from Kl Scheidegg down to Wengen, overlooking the deep Lauterbrunnen Valley - this is an easier walk than to Grindelwald - not so steep and is actually along a track used by mountain bikers and 4-wheel vehicles. took me about two hours.

maitaitom

I agree with Tipsygus on your route walking from Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg. It was a suggestion by Bob Brown, who I don't know is still around on this board, but he did provide great insight into hikes in that area. Our early to mid afternoon walk made for some spectacular photo ops with incredible mountain views. You'll love the the gondola ride up from Grindelwald. Lots of fun.

Also, when you visit Gruyères, stop by the Auberge de la Halle restaurant (it might be a hotel, too) on the main cobblestone street in town. They make a fantastic gruyere macaroni and cheese that I have replicated on many occasions since our trip there.

kaleighmh

Unfortunately, Gruyeres had to be cut from the itinerary- we were just rushing way too much (and we're still gonna be moving pretty quickly!) We will just have to return someday.

I noticed that from Lauterbrunnen to Lucerne we can either take the Golden Pass segment, or go to Bern then to Lucerne. Since we don't have any specific plans for that day, I was thinking we'd go the Bern route and stop in Bern for a couple of hours. We'd just like to walk around Old Town for a couple of hours and see Munster and the clock tower. Is it worth missing the Golden Pass route, just to see Bern for a couple of hours?
We are taking the Golden Pass from Montreux to Interlaken a few days before this, so it's not like we won't get to see any cool scenery from a train.

If anyone thinks that we should go through Bern, could you suggest a walking route from the train that would be fun?
Thanks!

clevelandbrown

I think the Golden Pass route between Interlaken and Lucerne is pleasant, but not outstandingly scenic, so you may as well go via Bern and see a bit of that. Thun, between Interlaken and Bern has a nice old town and castle that can be seen in a couple of hours and might be worth a stop.

I will play the devil's advocate on Sion/Gruyeres. Gruyeres is a very small place and very touristic in that it is usually crowded, sells trinkets that tourists would buy, and looks not unlike a disney theme park. Sion, by contrast is a city with a well preserved old town where souvenir trinkets are rare, and the stores sell fashionable merchandise. There are good restaurants, and more places to stay than in Gruyeres. There are also many places to visit near Sion, notably Zermatt and even Chamonix, if you like mountains.

In the mountains above the Lauterbrunnen valley there is frequently inclement weather, but even if you don't have a clear day to go up one of the mountains (they have cable at the train station that shows how it is at the top) there is a lot of scenery and opportunities to hike in the valley. If the top is socked in, you might consider a visit to Gimmelwald, a less touristy environment highly recommended by some.

We are more likely to go back to Sion than Gruyeres.

suze

Wow I have to disagree on the description of Gruyeres directly above. I don't know what part of town you are talking about, as we came in by car, and only went to the castle, then stopped for wine and a little a meat & cheese platter lunch at an extremely charming stone restaurant. There was nothing 'disney-eque' about the Gruyeres I saw in my brief visit (and I have an extremely low tolerance for things overly "touristy").

I understand Gruyeres is out anyway on this itinerary, but just had to chime in because of the comment above.

clevelandbrown

We saw the whole town; it is not that big. It was car-free, but apparently the merchants can use cars to replenish their stores of I love Switzerland mugs.

We all have our own opinions, and you are certainly welcome to yours, but if that Giger bar doesn't look like something in a Disney park, I don't know what would.

swandav2000

I agree with both clevelandbrown and suze. Gruyeres IS touristy and almost-fakey looking, yet it's still one of my favorite little places to go. It is so pretty and quaint, and the setting is simply bucolic and beautiful -- there is a reason why all those folks head there imo.

Well, I would never go in July or August, when the crowds and atmosphere would be at their worse; but I tend to go there in the late fall, and it's quiet.

And I absolutely love the scenery on the Golden Pass route; I love especially that first glimplse of the brilliant blue of Lake Geneva. If you took that route, you could stop for lunch in Gstaad!

If you decide to see Bern, there is a walking tour posted by "Hambagahle" on the Trip Advisor Bern forums.

Have fun!

s

kaleighmh

Interesting to hear everyone's views about Gruyeres even though we won't be able to go there this trip (I'm sure other people may read this though..) Anyways, we don't mind if things are a little touristy (we ARE tourists afterall, and as swandav mentioned- there is a reason tourists frequent certain places!), but we will be there in late May, early June, so hopefully everything won't be TOO crowded.
clevelandbrown- thanks for the Thun tip! Did a little research on Thun and it definitely looks like something we would be interested in, and since it's on our route, it would be very easy to fit into the itinerary!
swandav- I will have to do a little research on Trip Advisor, I haven't looked over on that site yet, besides when I was researching hotels.
All my planning got put on the back-burner for midterms, but I'm back to planning now!

kaleighmh

swandav- we're actually doing the Golden Pass in the other direction, from montreux (staying in vevey) to interlaken (staying in lauterbrunnen), and then from there to Lucerne (though, I think we've decided to go through Bern instead of finishing the Golden Pass route). Hopefully leaving lake Geneva and approaching the Alps will be just as beautiful!

I saw your Gstaad suggestion on another thread, and have written it into the master plan But since we will be leaving Vevey mid-day Saturday, we were hoping to get picnic food from the market in the morning and make ourselves a little lunch on the train. Should we stop in Gstaad anyways just to walk around for a bit (and not eat there?)

swandav2000

Hi again,

Yes, I forgot to say I did see that you had postponed your visit to Gruyeres -- but yes for others who visit this thread, here's a link to my "review" (w/photos) of Gruyeres:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR..._Fribourg.html

You'll have a great time, kaleighmh!

s

nicki

Kaleighmh, you asked about must-sees in Zurich. What I loved most were the incredible stained-glass windows by Marc Chagall, in the Fraumunster church. Both the Rough Guide and Rick Steves books had descriptions of the windows which were very helpful. I just photocopied them from library books and took them with me. And here is info too: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/s...ch-fraumunster