Hi everyone. Our South of France trip is all planned for Sept of this year and we're just waiting right now, so are in process of starting to plan next year's trip. We've pretty much narrowed it down to Switzerland, Lakes, and Venice; but I need some help in figuring out the best routing. We have maximum of 15 days and plan to travel by rail only.

Fly into Zurich-
Luzern: 2 nts
Berner Oberland: 4 or 5 nts
Lake Lugano: 2 nts
Lake Como (probably stay in Varenna): 2 nts
Venice: 4 or 5 nts
Fly home from Venice

Questions: like the idea of Luzern first, as it gives us a couple days to unwind. However, the train ride from Berner Oberland to Lugano is about 5 hrs (was hoping to keep under or around 4 hrs if possible from place to place.) Should we consider going straight to Berner, going Luzern next, then taking the William Tell Express to Lugano?

Secondly, regarding the lakes, should we pick only one to stay at or two? Should we consider Lake Maggiore, Orta or Garda instead, with Venice as the last stop?

If we took Venice out, we could fly RT Zurich and see French Switzerland as well, but we missed Venice on our last trip to Italy and thought this would be perfect way to fit it in.

Would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions on how to make this itinerary flow.

Thanks very much.

That's a pretty good itinerary you have now. It's another 1.5-2 hours or so from Luzern to the Oberland so if you are feeling up for it after the flight into Zurich, you could easily flip Luzern and the Oberland in your itinerary.

One other factor to consider is the weather. If it is nice and sunny when you arrive and is expected to stay that way for a few days, then head straight for the mountains. Otherwise if clouds and rain are expected, then ride it out in Luzern then do the Oberland.

I've always thought that pairing Venice with a visit to Switzerland would make for a spectacular contrast.

Did you know that there's a nighttrain from Lausanne (Lac Leman) that leaves after 11 p.m. and arrives in Venice the next morning? All sleepers and couchettes I think. Sooooo, if you'd consider saving Italian Switzerland for another trip, you could stay on Lucerne's lake a couple of days, then settle in the Oberland, and then on to French Switzerland's Vaud, before taking a nighttrain to Venice.

If you don't wish to give up the southern lakes, then perhaps you could consider eliminating Lucerne as a place to stay; it is a possible daytrip from the Oberland, especially if you'd consider staying at the foot of the mountains instead of up above (wash my mouth out with yucky soap). Anyway, by doing that, you could go straight to the Oberland, then the Vaud, then across to Lugano, and onto to Venice as you planned. I don't think there's much point to moving from Lugano to Varenna -- one or the other with a day trip would suffice. (Varenna if you love small; Lugano if you'd like to throw in a bit of small-scale cosmopolitan ambiance (ence?).

One more option? If you could fly into Geneve, you could put the Vaud first, then the Oberland/Lucerne, etc.

All in all, you can't go wrong working with the outline you've begun. J.

I like that itinerary--always have.
Your only possible glitch is not doing the BO first, but the train ride is longer from Zurich. Also, you can save some travel time by just taking the Postal bus from Lugano to Menaggio on Como and either stay there or ferry to Varenna. Nice trip !

I would definately visit Venice, it will give you a nice contrast and 4 nights or more is perfect.

I had bypassed Venice on a number of trips to Italy over the years and last year in January my husband and I finally tagged on 4 nights in Venice onto the end of a Christmas trip to visit my family in England.

The city was magical and I enjoyed it so much that I took my mother for 4 nights from the UK when I was visiting her this March.

Hope you have a great time.

The train ride from Zurich, particularly the airport station, takes about one hour which IMO is better for the first day after what I assume will be the mosly sleepless overnight flight. Then go to the BO.

You could easily spend three-four days on one of the two lakes (Como or Lugano)..frankly I would spend them all at Como (you can take an easy bus ride from menaggio the short distance to Lugano) as I think Como is the more scenic of the two lakes (but that's subjective).

I would not try to fit in Lac Leman AND the the other lakes AND Venice in this short a period of time. Do it the way you originally planned: Lucern/BO/Lake/Venice...home

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm afraid I need more help now...

We've narrowed it down to either Luzern/Berner/Lakes/Venice (2,5,3,5 days); or Luzern/Berner/Lake Geneva/night train to Venice (2,5,3,5 days.)

The latter option with night train(mentioned below) isn't one I originally thought of, but sounds interesting. We'd be opting for French Switzerland instead of Lake Lugano/Como. We also haven't ever taken an overnight train, and are a little hesitant, but I'm sure it would be fine.

While I originally thought I preferred the Lake Lugano/Como idea, my train timetable research says there doesn't seem to be an easy or short way to get there from Berner Oberland. I figure if we stay in Wengen or Lauterbrunnen, we need to get back to Interlaken to get train, and the route goes back up to Luzern, then down to Lugano, which makes about a 6 hr trip all together. I thought of going straight from Zurich to Berner, back up to Luzern, to Lugano, then Venice, but agree that 3 hr train ride after overnight flight would be tough (although we've done it before) and we'd still need to then make our way to our accommodations-exhausting! We've taken trains before on various trips, but the longest trip was probably 3.5 or 4 hours at a time.

If we opt for Lake Geneva area instead, I'm thinking we can always pair up Lake Como later with Cinque Terre & a return trip to Tuscany easily enough.

In lieu of the distance, would you still pick Lugano/Como vs. Lake Geneva? If neither prove to work very well, and Venice is just too much (I'm hoping not-we really like this idea) then we could do something else instead and save Venice for next trip back to Italy.

Or, any ideas for different lakes that may not take as long to reach? (was thinking maybe Stresa on Lake Maggiore, as it's 3 hrs from Interlaken.)

Also, we could do this trip either the last week of May/beginning of June, 2006, or, first 2 weeks of September, 2006 (preferred, as it is our wedding anniversary.) Knowing that we cannot predict weather to a certain extent, which time would be more reasonable for Switzerland? Former postings seem to say both are fine, with Sept seeming slightly more favorable.

Thank you again for your assistance. Thanks to those on this forum, our Provence trip this fall will no doubt be wonderful!

Ihopp,

The Swiss trains are quite enjoyable and the scenery makes for a wonderful journey. That 6 hour train ride will be a breeze. We did a 11 hour train ride once through Switzerland, no problem! Enjoy, the scenery out that train window will knock your socks off!

I love the towns along Lac Leman (Lake Geneva) of Lausanne, Vevey, and Montreux. Or if you prefer a larger city, then Geneva proper.

The night train leaves around midnight from this area and gets to Venice the next morning. Just be sure you have a private sleeper (wagon-lit) booked. I've done this trip several times and it is great fun.

Hi lhopp,

I've spent a few days in the Ticino (Lugano & Locarno) but didn't love it much. On the other hand, I've been to Lake Geneva umpteen times and am going back again this Sept. I love it there. But, of course, I'm not you, so I can't tell which you'll like more.

Just to let you know what you can do there, here is my standard list of activities, based in Montreux. Websites for photos follows.

Spend a morning walking along the 11km flowered lakeside promenade from Clarens to Villeneuve, passing the Chateau Chillon between Territet and Villeneuve; there are plenty of cafes to stop and have a coffee & snack along the way to replenish your strength. There are also plenty of benches to sit and read, watch other walkers, or simply stare at the majesty of the lake and the mountains in the distance.

If you make it all the way to Villeneueve, top off your long walk with a wonderful pizza & beer lunch at a lakeside café in Villeneuve, then take the ferry back to Montreux (I think the ferry stops in late Sep/Oct).

Spend a morning walking up to Montreux's old city and the old church for fantastic panoramic views from the church’s terrace. Have lunch at the Hotel/Restaurant du Pont at 12 rue du Pont (I had a ravioli in cream sauce with shaved truffles that was out of this world!). Montreux’s website is at www.montreux.ch

Spend the morning in Vevey hunting down the antiques shops in the old town. Then have lunch at the Hostellerie de Geneve on the Pl. Marche. Vevey’s website is at www.vevey.ch

Be sure to walk from Vevey to the town of La-Tour-de-Peilz, just a few blocks. Walk along the lake past stately trees and park benches until you come to an old fort, a small park, and the port. You'll see lots of folks out playing in good weather.

Take the train (the “wine train”) from Vevey to Chexbres, then spend a morning walking the vineyards down to the lake, hitting Rivaz & St. Saphorin. For lunch, find the Auberge du Rivaz (in Rivaz . . . ) with a terrace lake view or see if any of the cellars are having a cheese/wine tasting. Website: http://www.lavaux.com/navigation.asp?page=balades.asp

The lakeside village of Cully, just east of Lausanne, is a picturesque stop and has two recommended restaurants, the Auberge du Raisin and the Au Major Davel.

The lakeside village of Lutry, just two miles east of Lausanne, has a well-posted tour of medieval buildings as well as some good wine caves for tasting. Website: www. lutry.ch

Spend a day in the mountains, taking the train to the resort of Gstaad. On the way back, stop at Chateau d'Oex for lunch.

Take the funicular from Territet up to Glion and have lunch at the Hotel Victoria, enjoying its panoramic views of the lake.

Spend an afternoon in the medieval village of Gruyeres, making sure to sample the berries in creme-double. Website: www.gruyeres.ch

Spend an afternoon in Nyon at the Roman museum and the Caesar's columns nearby. The Fodors guide recommends a meal at the Auberge du Chateau just steps from the Roman museum. It was closed when I was there, but it looked charming. Website: www.nyon.ch

Go to the small, charming village of Celigny. Not much to see here but a picturesque place (it was actor Richard Burton’s home during the last years of his life). Have lunch at the Auberge du Soleil -- great prix fixe feast!

Spend the morning in the town of Morges, just west of Lausanne. Morges has a cobbled main street that is lined with shops and patisseries; it has a flowered lakeside promenade that signs say runs all the way to Lausanne; and it has a large, green park next to the lake that is filled with stately trees. Here's the Morges tourism website: www.morges.ch/view.asp?DomId=51

The website for the tourist office of the region is: www.lake-geneva-region.ch

My personal travel journal (w/photos) of Montreux: http://www.igougo.com/planning/journ...JournalID=7825

Montreux photos: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/swanda.../ph//my_photos

Have fun --

s

I like your second option w/nighttrain from the Vaud, especially if you travel often enough to include the Italian lakes in some future trip. I visited Switzerland many times before I ever ventured into Ticino. If this is your first Swiss experience, then Lucerne/Oberland/Lac Leman sounds perfect. I'll bet the vineyards are great in september along the Lavaux. (But what do I know?) J.