We are considering taking a trip to Europe in the fall. We were initially considering Italy, but in looking for flights using FF miles, the only possible flights appear to be in/out of Zurich. Could anyone recommend an itinerary for Switzerland and northern Italy for a 2 week trip. We are a family of 3 with a 5 year old who is an excellent traveler. We have traveled internationally before, but never to either of these two countries. Thanks for your help.

My husband and I have traveled to Switzerland and Italy, so hopefully I can help! We started in Zurich, spent a couple days there, then took the train to Murren in the Swiss Alps. (where he proposed!) From there, we took the train (long train ride) to Venice, then continued our trip to Florence and Tuscany.

For you, however, since you want to stay in Northern Italy - I would suggest Venice, Florence and/or the Bellagio/Lake Como area. We never made it Bellagio, but I hear it's just lovely. And the next time we go back to Italy, we will be sure and check it out.

Zurich is a very nice city. Switzerland in general is such a clean, beautiful country. I was so impressed by it. The Swiss Alps are just gorgeous, so since you're in Switzerland, it's a must see! But, the rest of the itinerary was just a suggestion. I'm not sure how you like to travel, or what you like to see. But, hopefully that helps a bit! I know the initial planning can be overwhelming.

I'm on this board a lot.. planning our next trip to France, so if you have any more questions, just post here and I'll try to help!

We did a somewhat similar trip a couple of years ago at the end of October, flying in and out of Zurich. Because we were leary of planning too much time in the mountains so late in the year, our itinerary was weighted more to cities/towns. We did encounter rain and some cool days, but ironically our time in the Bernese Oberland area was clear and sunny. We travelled by train, bus and ferry and visited:

Zurich (just a full day)
Luzern
Bern
Montreux (day trip from Bern)
Wengen (including Jungfraujoch)
Lugano
Bellagio
Milan
Flew back to Zurich early enough to make connection; no overnight in Zurich.

Originally, we planned to circle back to Zurich within Switzerland and not go to Italy on this trip, but our American Airlines FF miles covered the flight back to Zurich from Milan. I couldn't say no to a visit to Bellagio, although finding an open hotel so late in October was a challenge.

In retrospect, I'd skip Lugano or just spend one night passing through. It just wasn't my cup of tea. I enjoyed Bern very much, but others here might suggest the time better spent elsewhere (Venice perhaps if you want more of Italy). I think you have to find the itinerary that works with your return to Zurich at the end. Check with the airline about an open-jaw ticket that would allow your return from another city or in the matter that we travelled, for example from Milan or Venice to Zurich.

P.S. Using American Airlines FF miles, we flew Swiss Air in/out of Zurich and Swiss Air on the connection from Milan.

Love this thread, as that's what I'm doing in October. Continental does to ZRH, back to states from Milan at the best price... We'd like to do 2 nights in Luzern, then head down to Lugano & Bellagio.

One question I have that seems like I would have read it, but how high are the alps the train passes through - any altitude sickness?

Also, if anyone has favorite hotels, I haven't done much research yet, so I'd love to here where to stay - 2 or 3 stars with a view is all we need.

mccarder - our full itinerary is Luzern->Bellagio (or Mennagio)->Venice->Florence-> Tuscany->last night in Stresa I believe. We have 15 nights without travel. I keep trying to get more days in Venice, so the order may change, and we may not make it to Tuscany, Ideally I'd like no more than 5 moves, that is 3 days each and I'm only taking 2 actual nights in Lucern.

I hear the overnight train to Venice is very convenient from ZRH. Keep us posted on your plans! Trav

Travelphile: You don't notice the altitude because you're rising and descending gradually, and, since you're sitting on the train, there's no physical excertion to tax your lung power. If you plan to hike around at a higher altitude, I think you'd want to wait until you've been at the altitude for a day or two.

As far as hotel recommendation go, first do searches here for "Luzern hotels" (also spelled "Lucerne hotels&quot, "Bellagio hotels," etc. If you have questions after your searches, post again.

I would discourage the over-night train from Zurich to Venice only because you'd miss some spectacular scenery.

We took the Bernina Express in June. It would be a little out of the way as it runs from St Moritz/Pontresina south to Tirano, Italy. The Bernina is unique because it is on-grade as it crosses the Alps (not in a tunnel). Fantastic (a UNESCO Heritage landmark).

Enjoy your trip.

There are some great ideas here!

Although Lugano isn't my top ten city either, I absolutely adore the easy hike from Lugano to Gandria and then taking the boat back (or vice-versa). On the boat ride, you can also get off at the Smuggler's museum on the other side of the lake. Take an hour and explore it's exhibitions. Then take the next boat to your destination.

lavaflow-
Did you do a trip report for your Switzerland/Italy trip? Would be interested in the details since your trip sounds exactly like what we may want to do. We are planning our first trip to Europe (Italy), but I know someone who lives in Zurich and says that we can stay with them for free. Since we are traveling on a budget we are considering this, but Italy is a top priority for us. Was wondering if it is really expensive to travel from Switzerland to Italy (would like to see Florence & Venice for sure; Positano and Rome would be nice but not necessary) and if too much time is wasted on travel (we are planning around 2 weeks). I'm thinking the cost savings of a free stay in Zurich may be offset by the extra travel expenses. Is it possible to fly into Zurich and out of Venice?
Would love to hear more comments!

Thanks for all the responses so far. It is so hard to figure out how to narrow down the possibilities on trips like these.
Acquarius2378 - We also are more interested in concentrating on Italy esp. considering the higher possibility of bad weather in Switzerland. I can't decide if it's worth it if have to fly in/out of Zurich. Am considering whether we should postpone trip and try again in the spring.
lavaflow - thank you for you kind offer to help in anyway. As to what kind of travelors we are...in the past (pre-child), we liked to move alot and see as much as we could while still taking time out for recreation like hiking, golf, dining, etc. We have enjoyed staying at B&B type places. I am not generally drawn to large cities, but my husband enjoys them more. We are not so much into art, but "when in Rome..." so to speak...
We are interested in the cultural and historical aspects of the areas we travel to. With that all said, things are different now as we will be travelling with a 5 year old. She is a good traveler, but things will have to be slower and we will have to schedule time for more kid-oriented things. I know this is way open, but I'm enjoying reading all the postings anyway.

aquarius -- No, unfortunately, I did not do a trip report, but maybe I should post one because it was such a great trip, stayed at some great places, etc.

But, here's a BRIEF summary, that I hope you (and others) will find helpful.

We had two weeks. Started our trip in Zurich for two nights. Took a relatively brief and BEAUTIFUL train ride to Murren. If you love small towns, you'll love Murren in the Swiss Alps. Very quaint, charming, secluded and the scenery is breathtaking. All the hotels are right next to the mountain. I can't remember the name of the place we stayed, but all of the accommodations in Murren offer a rustic experience. Nothing fancy, but comfortable, clean and affordable!

From Murrren, we took a very long train ride to Venice. (I think it was 8 hours) We stayed in Venice for 3 nights. Took a train to Florence, where we rented a car and drove to our hotel in Tuscany. Stayed another 3 nights, drove back to Florence, dropped off our rental car, then took the train to Positano. Stayed three nights in Positano, and then took the train up to Rome, where we stayed one night before flying back home.

We are "on the go" travelers.. and disregarded the advice we got from people who told us to stay to pick Northern or Southern Italy. We really wanted to see Positano, so we decided to fly out of Rome because it's fairly close. We didn't get a chance to see Florence or fully explore Tuscany, but I would not have anything different with our itinerary. We never felt rushed or exhausted from the travel.

We took a lot of trains, but found it to be EXTREMELY easy and everything was on time. We had no hiccups in our transportation at all, except for missing one train.

Yes, you can fly from Venice to Zurich. You will have to take a train to the Venice Airport, which is pretty easy and close. I don't remember how much we paid for the trains, but someone on this board must know a website that has schedules and fares.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions about our trip!

aquarius-- I just checked Expedia about flights from Venice to Zurich. I didn't find any that were NON-STOP. Maybe someone else knows if there is a direct flight?

A few thoughts:

You can take the Bernina Express from Chur (eastern Switzerland) to Tirano (or the regional train that follows the same route for less money--the only difference is that the regional train doesn't have the windows that curve up onto the roof). In addition to saving some money you will be able to open the windows on the regional train so you get fresh air and the ability to take photos without the scratches and/or dirt on the outside of the windows. From Tirano it is a short train ride to Varenna on the eastern shore of Lake Como. Lake Como is like heaven!! I hightly recommend Albergo Olivedo which is less than 5 minute walk from the train station and is right on the lake. Their website: http://www.olivedo.it/olivedo/inglese/home.htm
The ferry stops immediately in front of the hotel. It will take you all over the lake. From Varenna you can get a direct train to Milan so you can easily travel throughout Italy.

In Luzern we stayed at Hotel Roesli. Website: www.roesli.ch It is a plain, simple hotel that is very clean and extremely well-located. It had the most reasonable rates of any hotel in central Luzern. Our room was quite large and comfortable. If you stay at the Roesli you have to walk across the street to Hotel Baslertor for check-in and breakfast. The Baslertor has the most lovely breakfast room with a very tasty buffet. We enjoyed long, relaxing breakfasts at the Baslertor while we caught up with our travel journals. We loved Luzern--it is completely walkable and has lots of very interesting history. The Tourist Office sponsors excellent walking tours.

Although I mentioned Lugano wasn't one of my favorite towns in Switzerland, I just recalled that there is a wonderful amusement park for children on the lake just a ferry stop or two from Lugano. I forget the name, but it is essentially Switzerland miniaturized (and I think the name is a variation on that description). We didn't go inside, but we could see it from the ferry. It's entirely outdoors and you walk around the "towns" and "sights." It has a slight feel of Legoland to it.

Regarding Lake Como, bear in mind that most hotels in Bellagio and Varenna close by the third weekend in October. There is always an open hotel somewhere, but your choices after Oct. 15th begin to narrow.

You mentioned you were thinking more Italy and less Switzerland because of the chance of bad weather. I wouldn't worry about it too much. You can lose the weather lottery wherever (and whenever) you go. Switzerland in particular has many indoor things to do and see (except, obviously, in the mountains). If you go to Luzern, for example, the Transportation Museum is a must.

Having said that, I can't think of a country more welcoming to children than Italy.

It's called the Swiss Miniatur and it's in Melide. It's like a huge miniature of Switzerland that has miniature trains going through the whole area. Definately worth a look!

We took a trip to Italy and Switzerland this summer and had a fabulolus time. I would recommend at least 3 days in Florence, a few days in Chianti to see some of the hill towns , 3 days in Venice and perhaps the rest in Switzerland. We had family that lived just outside of Zurich and they recommended some great places to see near Zurich such as Appenzel ( a quaint little village) St Gaullen ( nice shopping area), Shafhausen ( a beautiful water fall), and Stein um Rehin ( home to St George and the dragon) Have a great trip.

I'm just returning from a weekend away and wanted to say thanks, particularly to sbsjsf, you're hotels both look wonderful and I will be checking them for availability!

Olivedo even has a room/board deal for the end of October, so I assume they will still be open - how was the food? They only do a deal that includes dinner for three days...

Ok, I am starting to focus in a little bit. On my list of places so far that seem managable and of interest are (not in any particular order): Zurich, Luzern, Lugano, Lake Como, Piedmont area, Cinque Terre. Possibly Florence, Bologna, Gruyeres, Montreaux, Bern, ?. With a combo of train and car. Any suggestions for putting that all together?? I guess we would prefer to stay in only 4 - 5 different places over the 2 week time period.
Also for you more experience Fodorites...is there a way to chance the title of my original posting to make it more specific?
Thanks all.

The list of destinations you present would be useful for a 2-week trip to Switzerland AND 2-week trip to Italy. Not all in one fortnight, especially if you have to return to Zurich.

Bear in mind that you lose a half day (or more) moving from one base hotel to the next. This is especially true on portions of the itinerary where you will be travelling by train.

You can't change the title of your original post, but you can start a new thread with a different title and (I hope) a reduced itinerary.

Thank you for your reply. I perhaps wasn't clear. I do realize it would be impossible to hit all of those destinations. I am just now trying to focus in on places that have jumped out to me as being on the "medium" list. Believe me I am trying to get to the "short" list. I thought a little bit of focus on my part might help somebody else suggest a doable itinerary in the vicinities that are looking to be of interest. Thanks again.