tuscanlifeedit

In the past few months I've asked about some other destinations, as possibilities, but this is real.

We land in Zurich on the morning of September 24, and leave from Venice on the morning of October 7, 2015.

On another thread, greg advised taking a train direct from Zurich airport to an Alpine region, avoiding waiting around for check-in after flying all night, especially if one travels light. We travel very light indeed, with a 20" rolling bag each. We both like this plan.

So we are thinking of going straight to the Berner Oberland, but don't know how long to stay.

We will spend our last 3 nights in Venice, specifically for the Biennale. We love the Biennale.

Right now I'm thinking of two possible bases in Switzerland and maybe one more in Italy.

We have 13 nights, 10 NOT counting Venice.

My goals in Switzerland are to see Alpine landscapes. I joke that I want the full Heidi experience, but it is kind of what I'm after. Quaint is good, super scenic is great; not looking for a city experience. I am not able to hike, but walking is OK.

In Italy, I'm thinking of Stresa to see the lake islands, but I'm open to most places between Switzerland and Venice, but probably not a mountain destination after Switzerland.

We don't drink, so wine destinations aren't an option. Food is important. I would say art too, but since the Biennale is already a part of the plan, we don't really need an art destination.

I have guidebooks and more on order.

I can narrow this down to more specific threads, but right now I'm looking for an itinerary.

Thoughts appreciated.

PalenQ

I'd say 4-5 days in the Berner Oberland ain't too much as there is so so much varied aweing things to do:

Jungfraujoch Railway to a sea of glaciers - Europe's highest train station

Boat trips on either lake bookending Interlaken

The Lauterbrunnen-Murren-Schilthorn-Gimmelwald-Lauterbrunnen Loop - my favorite excursion in the Alps

The Ridge Walk - an easy hike for anyone who can walk between Mannlichen - celebrated viewpoint - to Kleine Schiedegg

and on and on

For a 2nd location you could go to the Bernina Pass area around St-Moritz for more Alpine spendor and ride what to me is Europe's most scenic railway to Italy to connect with trains to Lake Como (Bellagio would make a nice stop) and Milan to go onto Venice.

Or a 2nd destination could be Zermatt - and more Alpine splendor or Lucerne - lots of nice day trips from there - mainy by boat on what I think of as Switzerland's loveliest lake - mountain trains to Mt Pilatus or Mt Titlis at Englebergor lower Mt Rigi.

Or go over the the Montreux area via the Golden Pass scenic train from Interlaken to Montreux - again lots to see and do there and quite different from Alpine areas and easy access to trains to Stresa via Brig.

For lots of great info on Swiss trains and conveaynces check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com. a Swiss Pass would be a boon if doing two places and traveling around each one - passes also cover lake boats, postal buses, city transport and give 50% off most gondolas or trains to mountain tops.

yestravel

We were in Switzerland and then Italy this past Sept/Oct and loved Switzerland. We also landed in Zurich and much to my surprise I enjoyed our short time there. From there we took the train to Pontresina where we spent several lovely days. We had one very sunny, cloud free day and the other 2 days were various clouds, sun and fog. We then took the regular train on the Bernina Express route and it was stunning. Some of it was fogged in, but we had gone on some of the route on our one sunny day, so got to see the scenery in the brillant sun and somewhat cloudy/fog. Beautiful both ways. From Tirano where the train ends, we went on to Milan.

Switzerland was super expensive. Our hotel in Pontresina included a pass for free transport and that did help. My first choice was to go to the BO region, but was concerned about going so late in the season and whether we would have any sun at all. thus on the advice of some folks here we went to the upper Engadine and it was beautiful.

tuscanlifeedit

yestravel: interesting information on the weather. I will look in to whether upper Engadine or other regions have statiscally more clear days. I know that it is late in the season, but I wasn't really thinking that it was "too" late. Interesting and a little disappointing.

PalenQ: so helpful. I'm thinking of the BO, then possibly Zermatt, Lucerne or Montreux.

We have spent time on Como and Garda, and that's why Maggiore seemed attractive. But I would consider Lucerne and then a town or city in Italy.

We've made many trips to Italy and have never spent time in Milano. Maybe BO, Lucerne, Milan, Venice. What do you think?

I'm going to read more train information now.

yestravel

One of the posters on here who is very familiar with Switzerland told me that the Upper Engadine has the most number of sunny days. We may have been fine in the BO, but we wanted to do hiking and foggy days would have been very disappointing.

We have been to Milan a couple times and always enjoy it. We spent 3 nights here in October and despite having crummy weather, we really enjoyed ourselves. Lots to see and do and of course, wonderful food.

bobthenavigator

The Berner Oberland is easily the highlight of CH, but I would try to include 2 nights in Luzern as well. Once you toss in Stresa and Venice you have a super trip to 4 of my favorite places in Europe---have fun !

BarbAnn

Oh, I don't think it is late in the season. Most of the trips I have made to Switzerland were late Sept/Oct/early Nov. Our last trip was in mid October. We had the most beautiful weather with clear skies in the BO and Zermatt. Absolutely breathtaking views from the high peaks.

kja

For a mountainous region of Switzerland, I don't think you can go wrong with the Bernese Oberland or either the Lower or Upper Engadine.

I found the Michelin Green Guide particularly helpful for planning my time in the area.

tuscanlifeedit

I love you guys. I'm off to order a Michelin Green Guide right now.

I dug up some older threads and found references for apartments. Lauterbrunnen seems to have well priced apartments in a village atmosphere, but I'm wondering about restaurants. Even in apartments we like to have dinner out as often as possible, so if anyone knows if Lauterbrunnen has a few restaurants to sustain us for less than a week, I would appreciate that information. Otherwise, I guess it is Gimmelwald. Looking at Wengen and Muren, but choices seem less.

bobthenavigator: please tell me what you like about Stresa.

kja

Yes, there are several restaurants in Lauterbrunnen. The best is supposed to be the Hotel Silberhorn, but I must admit that I was disappointed; YMMV. I thought the traditional fare at the Hotel Oberland quite tasty. I also ate at the Schuetzen; nothing great, but perfectly satisfactory IMO. If you decide to stay in Lauterbrunnen, you might consider the Hotel Staubbach -- wonderful hospitality.

bobthenavigator

We love Stresa, and it should not be too crowded that late in the season. There are 5 highlights to me:

1. The mandatory ferry trip to Isola Bella
2. Ferry to Isola Pescatori for lunch at Hotel Verbano
3. The cable car up Mt. Mottarone for spectacular views over the lake
4. A day trip to Lago Orta if you have a car
5. Ferry up to Villa Taranto to see fabulous gardens

Here are some images:

http://www.slowphotos.com/photo/show...at=4173&page=2

And, it has good rail connections from CH to Milan.

tomarkot

Hi Tuscanlifeedit, sounds like you're planning a great trip.
We were in Switzerland in September, and are just posting the section of Lauterbrunnen into Grindelwald. You can find it under our screen name.

We really liked staying in Lauterbrunnen. It's so beautiful, and there is lots to do. There are several restaurants from which to choose. But, as we describe in our TR, they do book up. Although it's often not our style to make reservations, we'd highly suggest them in Lauterbrunnen.

We agree with Bob the Navigator above: adding the variety of Stresa, Venice, and Lucerne would make for a wonderful trip. Good luck in your planning!

swandav2000

Hi tuscanlifeedit,

I personally wouldn't stay in Lauterbrunnen -- it sits at the bottom of a valley, with the massive mountains overhanging it. Every time I ride though on the train, I get claustrophobic just for the few minutes I'm riding through.

If you are thinking about staying there, do take a look at some images using the "images" search engine of google. You may not have the same reaction that I do, so you would be just fine there (as tomarkot was). However, if you do have a reaction like mine, then you would be better off in Grindelwald or Wengen up above.

I've stayed in Grindelwald twice and Wengen three times; I prefer Wengen a lot more. I like the peace and quiet, and I think the car-free atmosphere is wonderful!

Have fun as you plan!

s

PalenQ

Gimmelwald - has only one or maybe two little restaurants and is isolated - its charm but is only a small farming hamlet - did you mean Grindelwald, my favorite base in the BO? Lots of Fodorites love Wengen for its isolation (not transport-wise) but total lack of cars and much smaller and quieter than say Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen - I like the more 'life' you find in a Grindelwald but some would rather have a more sedate and quiet place and Wengen is perfect for that.

kja

There are places to stay in Lauterbrunnen that offer gorgeous views of the valley, places like the Hotel Staubbach.

PalenQ

I'd rather have the muchmuch much broader views from a Grindelwald, Murren or Wengen than Lauterbrunnen, which does have neat views of the gorge it is in, majestically crowned by the tops of the Jungfrau Massif peaks - nice but not nearly as wide a vistas as from those other places. Lauterbrunnen, more than any town, also has a log of young folks staying there - with camping cities like Contiki's and others so is a more youthful-oriented town - as is somewhat Grindelwald though that crowd is more a 20s or 30s crowd and not so young as the college kids Contiki typically attracts.

kja

That was not my experience of Lauterbrunnen. I wonder if it depends on the season? I was there in late June 2013.

tuscanlifeedit

Oh, sorry about misspelling Grindelwald.

I like the idea of Wengen or Murren, but read that one must take the train to Lauterbrunnen to do daytrips.

I was thinking that Lauterbrunnen would be a good base for daily excursions.

I guess Wengen and Murren are out if we want a car, and we're not sure whether we do or not. Would they be good for daily excursions?

Grindelwald hotels are pretty expensive, but I will check apartments there.

kja

Switzerland is one of the easiest places in the world to visit without a car -- the trains and buses are excellent. You can get full info here:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
Even in places where cars are allowed, they could easily be an encumbrance. And it is SO nice to be able to devote all of one's attention to the scenery!

swandav2000

kja, I've been through Lauterbrunnen in lots of seasons, from skiing in winter to hiking in summer; my reaction was always the same -- shuddering at the dark.

Fortuscanlifeedit,

No need at all for a car in Switzerland; as kja notes, they can be an actual hindrance. There is a train station in the basement of the Zürich airport, so you'll be whisked away to start your adventure soon after you land. Be sure to stop and buy some picnic items (fresh bread, local cheese & dried hams, Swiss chocolates) and enjoy a lovely picnic while moving to your first destination. Then just sit back and relax and enjoy the views!

Connections in Switzerland are engineered wonderfully, with departures just about every 15 or 20 minutes -- not much waiting around. I also love the chance to do some world-class people-watching on the train and at the station -- you are free to check out how people act and interact across the generations. Much nicer, I think, than being stuck inside a private bubble.

In many parts of the world, you don't really have a choice -- you have to use a car to get around rural France, Italy, and most of the USA. But in Switzerland, there is a choice since the train service is so good.

Some mountains are already seeing damage from Global Climate Change -- here in Bavaria, we no longer have summer snow, and the glaciers are melting at a really fast rate. So -- you may be really happy to help preserve the beauty you came over to see!

Have fun!

s