neckervd

You are right, jacoper.
Schilthorn is not even 3000 metres above sea level. That makes the difference.
The alternative would be gly-coramin pills

Banff

Yeah, as others have mentioned, it sounds like the Shilthorn is incredible but with two night, one full day my time might best be spent hiking from Mann to KS. Also, the altitude thing is probably not something I want to test given my past experience.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding the .5 fare card correctly ....

So it looks like the .5 fare card will cost my wife and I 130 each. Add to that the Saver Day Passes for 30 each. Since I will need these cards/passes coming into and going out of Switzerland I should plan to double that amount? On top of that, I would also still need to purchase tickets from Venice to the Swiss border? If I understand this correctly, it seems like that .5 fare option comes out higher than the point-to-point that neckervd suggested?

neckervd

The suggestion of Hambaghale makes sense.
All will depend on the fares you will get for your Italy - Spiez tickets, however, as well as on the lifts you may use in the Bernese Oberland.
The standard fares from Domodossola to Wengen and from Wengen to Basel are equivalent to 150 CHF/USD. The Half Fare Card costs 130 CHF and 2 Super saviour tickets together 58 CHF, totally 188 CHF.
That means: if you do day trips for more than 76 CHF (full fare) and if you get no reduction on your international tickets, the Half Fare Card makes sense.

Hambagahle

Schilthorn is 2970m. 30m shy of 3000m Jungfraujoch is 3450m. Klein Matterhorn is 3883m. Some people are affected by altitude and the best "cure" is to go down in altitude for a bit. Even going down 300m can make a big difference. But clearly since you have to take a train to get to the Jungfraujoch you can't simply just get off it and take another down...have to go to the top and then come down.

The train ticket I am talking about is NOT a "Super Saver ticket" (nor even a "Super Saviour ticket" !!) It is a Saver Day Pass. This acts like the Swiss Travel Pass or General Abonnement in that it gets you to all inhabited places in the country on the day for which you buy it. If you also have a Half Fare card (like most of us Swiss do in fact) then the price for the Saver Day Pass is even lower. Starts in this case at 29frs. And that - however you look at it - is a bargain. Cost of the Half Fare Card for tourists is 120frs per person. If you have this and then save around 70frs each on the Jungfraujoch, 40frs on the Gornergrat and 50frs on the Klein Matterhorn you are ahead of the "game".

Super Saver tickets cost even less as a rule than the Saver Day Pass BUT are restricted to a specific train at a specific time. Miss that train for any reason except a mis-conneection and there is no refund.

neckervd

You are right, Hambagahle, it's called Saver Day Pass (Carte Journalière Dégriffée/Spartageskarte).

So, my post 43 should be:
" The standard fares from Domodossola to Wengen and from Wengen to Basel are equivalent to 150 CHF/USD. The Half Fare Card costs 120 CHF and 2 Saver Day Passes together 58 CHF, totally 178 CHF. AND THE JUNIOR CARD WILL BE FREE WITH THE HALF FARE CARD.
That means: if YOU CAN GET THE SAVER DAY PASSES and if you get no reduction on your international tickets, the Half Fare Card makes sense."

Banff

Hambagahle, In regards to the altitude question I didn't mean that I am debating between Jungfraujoch or K Matterhorn, I meant that instead of spending my sole day in BO I would forgo Jungfraujoch or Shilthorn in favor of the Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg hike. In so doing I would also eliminate the expense of the train/cable up to the peaks.

Not sure if this factors into the most economical train package for me but forgetting the mountain peaks this is what I am finding, if I'm understanding the schedules/fares correctly:

Option 1: Picking a random date two months from now I am receiving fares from $350 from Venice to Wengen for all four family members.

Option 2: Take a train from Venice to Domodossola = $135 lowest for family of four. From Domodossola I would then purchase .5 fare card along with a Saver Day Pass = $160ish per adult with kids free?????? Adding all of that up I would get a total of $455.

Seems like my best bet would be option 1 that also has the added benefit of one purchase for all, thus eliminating the stress of piecing together an itinerary?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.

neckervd

" Option 1: Picking a random date two months from now I am receiving fares from $350 from Venice to Wengen for all four family members"

I cannot check this fare without knowing the exact date, the trains and the age of your kids. But it looks correct. I got 364 USD (standard tariff) resp 290 USD (special offer), fo a random date too.

Take a train from Venice to Domodossola = $135 lowest for family of four.
seems correct. I got (up to Brig) 190 USD (standard tariff) and 116 USD (special offer).

" I would then purchase .5 fare card along with a Saver Day Pass = $160ish per adult with kids free"
correct: 120 + 30 x 2 pax = 300 USD up to Wengen.

" Adding all of that up I would get a total of $455"
Yes, 416 - 490 USD

But now, you will have to add the Wengen - Basel airport leg:
2 full fare tickets and 2 kids cards : 192 USD
OR
2 Saver day passes: 60 USD

That gives:
Option 1: 482 - 556 USD
Option 2: 476 - 550 USD

That confirms what I wrote above:
"IF YOU CAN GET THE SAVER DAY PASSES and if you get no reduction on your international tickets, the Half Fare Card makes sense."

PalenQ

Venice to Spiez may be cheaper if you get deep discounted tickets at www.trenitalia.com - may be cheaper than what you plan on now.

Banff

Ok, unless I find deeply discounted tickets like PalenQ mentioned it seems like 6 of 1, 1/2 a dozen of another. But the added benefit of booking altogether is one smooth transaction.

While I looked at Seat61 a week or so ago, I didn't really have the time to sit down and sift through the information as much as I did today. Wow! That truly is the Bible of European train travel.

Another option I'm looking at right now is the 5 day Global Pass. I could kick myself in the rear because before Christmas they had something like 40% off the Global Pass but my plans just weren't firm enough to iron all that out. While I can probably work out cheaper details in point-to-point travel, the benefit(s) of the Pass would be flexibility and fewer hours spent on logisitics. In order for the Pass to come into play, however, I'd probably have to wait for another "special" or "deal" to truly make it worthwhile. Also, my biggest fear with the Pass is the seat reservations and having to wade through which trains require them and how much.

PalenQ

I just got an e-mail about some Eurail Global Pass specials - www.eurail.com.

Banff

Thanks PalenQ, I did see that offer but travel must be completed by May 15th and we are going in June.

PalenQ

OK - but keep checking if sales are down specials could pop back up and 'specials' always seem to get into the news and sound good in emails so don't buy at full price until reasonable time before.

But reviewing your itinerary I think a Global Pass is overkill and maybe a Swiss Pass or 1/2 Fare Card better - Eurails get only 25% from Interlaken-Ost station to Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen/Wengen/Jungfraujoch trains. Swiss pass 100% covered to Grindelwald and Wengen plus city transports and lake boats. Most of your travel is in Switzerland and you should be able to get a really cheap Venice to Brig/Domodossola fare if book early enough. But Eurails are first class so that is a benefit - but you always pay about 10 euros on top of pass for long-distance high-speed trains and if you have to do Venice to Milan and Milan to Domodossola that's 2 x 10 p.p. so catch the odd Venice - Domodossola direct train that neckervd mentions at any rate. Changing in Milan Central can be chaotic.

Banff

Oh wow, I didn't think about that .... the fact that Venice to Domodossola via Milan would require two reservations! Over the course of the entire trip that could add up. I assume the kids would also have to pay the seat reservation fee enough though they travel free?

PalenQ

I assume that's it by the seat but not sure - with a pass - regular tickets have the seat reservation included in the train fare.

I can see no train that goes thru Milan - for Monday every train till I quit checking in mid-afternoon had two changes to get to Spiez - the 8:20 am train however does go thru from Milan to Spiez, where you change for Interlaken-Ost and trains to the hills - this train takes 5:33 h to Spiez from Venice - many other trains take 8 hours so may want to take that train. I get schedules from www.bahn.de/en - German Railway pan-European schedule sights for all European trains -study it for the day you want to go and see which trains are fastest and least changes.

But, I don't see efficacy of a Eurailpass in your case and say this strongly without really studying every train or conveyance you;ll be taking.

Beauty of Swiss Pass to me is you can always do more than anticipated without worrying about paying and just hopping on trains or boats at whim. Plus gets free entry to about 500 Swiss museums and attractions. check prices here is U,S. too vs prices in Switzerland - can be a different either way - sometimes substantial - figure in any c c surcharges you may encounter. Check U.S. prices at agents I list above. If want to talk to a real expert call Byron at BETS-European Rail Experts - whom I bought thru for years and always answered any questions even if not buying.

Banff

Perfect, thank you!

Banff

So it appears that the 820 train is running $250 right now....since European trains have dynamic pricing, I assume that price isn't going any lower?

Hambagahle

Not all European rail companies have "dynamic pricing". Trenitalia does and if you are looking at their site then the fare you see today is more than likely the cheapest fare.

There is ONE direct (i.e. no change in Milano Centrale) train a day from Venice to Brig. Leaves Venice at about 1530 but this makes for a very late arrival in Switzerland. Probably too late.

You cannot buy the Half Fare Card at the Domodossola station but you may well be able to buy it at the station in venice. You can definitely buy it at the Milano Centrale station. In fact you can also get it online from the SBB site. Which is the easiest thing to do. You do not need to have one to book trains but if you tick the box that says you have the HFC reduction then you MUST have it before you board the train.

neckervd

I suppose the OP got too many different tariffs and fares (from the websites of Trenitalia, Italo, SBB, Flixbus, etc.), namely in posts 23 31 39 43 45 47 and 52.
That's due to the complicated Italian tariff system (with 3 different discount levels for everybody, family discounts, junior discounts, but all that only for certain trains and on certain days and within a undefined booking period), different and not actualized EURO-CHF exchange rates, etc.
I tried to compare fares for a random date, but I realize that these method is not very helpful as things may change a lot until the OP will book.

All these comparisons make sense only at the moment when it's possible to book.

As to the timetable question:
If you want to do the Venice - Spiez leg with only 1 train change, you must leave Venice at
08.20 (change at Milan)
15.20 (change at Milan)
16.20 (change at Brig)
Among the many other solutions only the train Venice dp 14.20, with changes at Milan and at Brig (same platform) maks sense.

Banff

Thank you, greatly appreciate all the help that's been provided!

PalenQ

Or take the cheapest train Venice to Milan (cjeck www.italotreno.com too - competitor to Trenitalia) should be able to get really cheap if flexible - then Milan to Domodossola - regional trains take longer but have no seat reservation requirements - have you considered flying?