As a favor to a friend who doesn't have a computer, I'm posting her proposed itinerary with hopes Switz. experts will provide comments. I've helped her where I can, but I've only been to Switz. in summer, only to parts of this itinerary and we travelled by car.<BR><BR>Trip is on frequent flyer miles. Arrive Zurich 10/16 and depart Milan 10/30. Dates are not negotiable. The reason for ending at Bellagio is their 25th wedding anniv., but I'm wondering if city of Como would be a better choice in the last days of October. Here we go:<BR><BR>Day 1 Arrive Zurich at noon. Explore.<BR>Day 2 Train to Bern in p.m.<BR>Day 3 Explore Bern.<BR>Day 4 Explore Bern. <BR>Day 5 Day trip from Bern. Destination will<BR> depend on weather. In order of pref.:<BR> Interlaken/Grindelwald, Montreux/<BR> Lausanne, Freiburg. Other ideas?<BR>Day 6 Train to Luzern.<BR>Day 7 Explore Luzern.<BR>Day 8 Explore Luzern.<BR>Day 9 Wm. Tell Express to Fluelin, then<BR> Lugano. Service ends 2 days later.<BR>Day 10 Lugano<BR>Day 11 Lugano<BR>Day 12 Bus to Menaggio; ferry to Bellagio.<BR>Day 13 Bellagio<BR>Day 14 Ferry to Como; bus to Malpensa.<BR> Overnight at Villa Malpensa.<BR>Day 15 Depart Milan early a.m.<BR><BR>This couple is in their early 50s, energetic, not very interested in shopping, and they enjoy a mix of museums, scenery and local color.<BR>

Switzerland is mountains. The cities are secondary. You emphasize cities and omit the mountains. I spend weeks at a time in the mountains. The cities are not the appealing to me. For example, I see no good reason to allot so much time to Bern. It can be well traversed in day. Luzern might warrent two full days. Lausanne a couple as well.<BR>But the crowning glory of Switzerland are the Bernese Alps and the Pennine Alps -- Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Muerren and Wengen for the Bernese giants; Zermatt, Zinal, Saas Fee for the others. These are virtually omitted. Why?

Bob Brown is 100% right. We spent a full afternoon and one night in Bern and became bored. There is nothing as far as we were concerned of interest there other than a short stroll. Grindelwald, etc. is what it is all about. Replace Bern with Grindelwald (or Wengen or Muerren) and you've got a good plan. Then replace Lugano with Zermatt and you've got a great plan. (Bellagio will so &quot;blow away&quot; Lugano that you might as well forget Lugano in my humble opinion).

Try and find out how to get to Greyere (sp????) same spelling as the cheese. Its a lovely little village atop a nice hill overlooking some lovely Swiss countryside and indeed worth exploring. Take a train ride to Gstaad and explore some of the lovely little villages surrounding the lakes areas. Bern is the better of the bigger cities but she will not need as much time there as she has put aside. The countryside, mountains and small villages are indeed what makes up Switzerland. <BR>Have a great time

Thanks everyone.<BR><BR>I think the reason why she has focused on cities is because of the time of year. She's found that many hotels and restaurants in higher elevations will be closed from Oct. 15th. Ski destinations won't gear up until late Nov. It just sounds like things will be somewhat &quot;dead.&quot; <BR><BR>Weather is also a concern. She thinks committing to several days in a mountain town when it might be cold/wet/worse is risky. Or is it in late Oct? Perhaps some places can be visited as day trips from the cities? Bern in particular seems to have easy access for day trips.<BR><BR>I know they do have an interest in visiting a museum or two in Bern and Luzern. It isn't really only about mountains, is it?<BR><BR>Lugano v. Bellagio... They've been to Bellagio and wanted to spend a little time on another lake.<BR><BR>Lastly, they don't like changing hotels every other day. They prefer to stay in one place for at least 2 or 3 nights.<BR><BR>Any more comments/suggestions?<BR><BR>

I can say that some of my greatest memories of Switzerland were formed during a trip in mid-late October. There were plenty of hotels open, including those in Zermatt and St. Moritz which are two places that are pretty much geared toward the ski season in Winter...now arriving in THOSE two places AFTER 1 November could be problematic. OK...so some people don't like the cities and others do..you'll ahve to decide that for yourself. Two other often overlooked places are St. Gallen with the world-famous library and one of the most richly adorned churches in Switzerland (the abbey) and nearby Appenzell where the scenery is so Swiss-perfect is almost looks fake!<BR>I would agree about Berne...even though the last time I wrote about that city several others tried to start a pissing contest..it is nice but not NEARLY as interesting as other cities..and certainly not as picturesque. And if want a REAL &quot;mountain fix&quot; then spend a day on the Glacier Express..anyway, DITCH Berne and tell your friend to enjoy herself.

Thanks again everyone. Had lunch with my friend today. I can't talk her out of Bern entirely. It apparently has UNESCO World Cultural Heritage status (like Florence and Rome) because of its preserved city center. (Who knew?)<BR><BR>But she did agree to steal some time from Zurich, Bern and Luzern, take a chance on the weather, and spend a few days in the Berner Oberland.<BR><BR>Now, has anyone done the William Tell Express? Since this takes the better part of a day, she'd like some feedback.

If it's not too late, I think your friend's itinerary is fine. There are multitudes of things to do from Berne (walled Murten, a day in Lausanne and on Lac Leman, Solothurn, Avenches, Gruyeres, Chateau d'Oex,etc., etc.), both with mountains and without. Make sure the trip from Berne to Lucerne is via the Brunig pass. She'll have a wonderful time! (Tell her to be sure to boat to Gandria and Morcote while in Lugano.)

p.s. and the train route from Lucerne to Lugano is spectacular!

Thanks to jw (may I use your old - and familiar sounding for me – name?) I feel encouraged to reply to this thread. I am assuming I am the one who Bootman referred to (about Bern), but I cannot recall having started a “pissing contest”.<BR><BR>However, I agree with jw that your friend should stick with the original itinerary. Beside that I am thinking Bern is well worth a visit and you can spend at least two days there without getting bored, it is indeed a fantastic base for day trips. Even to the Alps (Bernese Oberland). A hike near Grindelwald/M&uuml;rren/Wengen of three or four hours (plus use of mountain railways) is easily doable from Bern (I did). I also enjoyed an excursion to Lake Bienne/Biel (incl. boat ride)with its picturesque villages and vineyards on the foot of the Jura mountains. Jw gave some very good recommendations as well. Not to forget the picturesque medieval town of Fribourg, only 35 km away from Bern.<BR><BR>Lugano is a good idea as well. As jw suggested, excursions to both Gandria and Morcote are easily doable by boat. I just want to add Carona – funicular to Monte San Salvatore and a short hike. Back by bus to Lugano (or hike further to Morcote). For accommodation I would recommend to stay not in the busy city centre of Lugano, but in one of the surrounding suburbs like Castagnola or Paradiso.<BR><BR>The Wilhelm Tell Express is just the marketing name of a combination of a first-class paddle steamer ride on Lake Lucerne + train ride via Gotthard to Lugano. It also includes a meal (lunch) on the boat. No need to book that “touristy” package! You can just buy a ticket for the steamer (second class is good enough) Lucerne – Fl&uuml;elen and a ticket for the train Fl&uuml;elen – Lugano. You will see the same spectacular scenery and pay less.<BR><BR>Ingo<BR>