Hi Everyone,

My husband and I (mid-40s) have promised each of our nieces and nephews a trip to Europe upon their high school graduation. The first one is coming up soon! This will be our 10th trip abroad and her very first -- her first airplane ride, first time away from home, etc. Our goal was to ease her into travel with Iceland and Switzerland before taking on chaotic Rome. This is definitely a splurge trip that we've worked hard all year to be able to do. (And, yes, our niece knows she is one very lucky girl!)

Questions:

1. Geneva airport to Wengen. Provided the plane is on time, we should have time to take a train from the airport to Montreux and catch the panoramic train to Interlaken Ost. I've read that we will not need to pre-purchase train tickets from the airport to Montreux in July. (I hope that is still a good decision!) We will make seat reservations for the afternoon panoramic Golden Pass train. But here's my question: Should we purchase the train tickets along with the reservation for the Golden Pass or just the cheaper reservation? And if we miss the desired train, it looks like there are plenty of ways to get to Interlaken -- via Bern (if the plane is really late) or via Montreux (if we just miss the train). But it looks like we'll have to take another route from Montreux to Interlaken if we miss the panoramic train -- or take a bus for part of the panoramic route. Sorry, it seems like it should all be so easy if the plane is on time or if we kept with our original plan to stay the night in Montreux. We will be purchasing a Swiss Half-Fare card and a Bernese-Oberland Regional Pass.
2. We will have a big travel day from Lucerne via Milan to Rome. As we will have the Swiss Half-Fare card. Should we book our tickets separately? We would like to take the nonstop train from Lucerne to Milan. Does the half-fare card apply to this trip? (I hate flying. We originally planned a short visit in Milan, but our flight out of Rome on Norwegian Air was changed and we scrambled to find another flight from Italy home to Boston. Now we are flying a couple of days later from Milan to Iceland to Boston.)

Thank you in advance for the Swiss train tips!

For those of you who love reading over other people's itineraries -- like me! -- here is ours:

1. Fly from Boston that evening. Short opportunity to sleep.
2. Arrive at some really early hour at KEF. Rent a car and drive. Spend the night a couple of hours north along the Golden Circle. Easy day, nap, Secret Lagoon, dinner at hotel.
3. Golden Circle, stop in Reykjavik for hot dogs and a walk around town, travel to our hotel near the airport for an early morning departure.
4. Travel Day. Fly to Geneva. (Question 1) Travel from Geneva to Wengen.
5. Wengen: Hikes, relax, enjoy the scenery.
6. Ditto. We'll try for a Jungfrau visit, weather permitting.
7. Wengen to Lucerne by train. Check into our hotel. Walk around Lucerne, dinner, easy afternoon.
8. Lucerne: Priorities are Pilatus, relaxation, lake time, etc.
9. Lucerne: Ditto.
10. (Question2) Travel Day: Noon train to Rome via Milan. Arrive in Rome. Walk around, dinner.
11. Rome: Morning walks/visits, lunch, afternoon at pool, late dinners, etc. (We opted for sharing a smaller room with a pool over a more spacious apartment. Give me outside space any day!)
12. Rome: Ditto
13. Rome: Ditto with evening at the Vatican Museums (Friday)
14. Rome to Venice
15. Venice
16. Venice
17. Milan to Iceland
18. Iceland to Boston: Blue Lagoon day.

Book trains to Italy at www.sbb.ch or Acquista il biglietto con le nostre offerte - Trenitalia and will be very cheap if book far in advance to get limited discounted seats - not involving Half-Fare Card at all. For lots on Swiss trains check www.swisstravelsystem.com; BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com. Lucerne. After landing I'd head the main route via Bern to Interlaken - GP is nice but that as awesome as what you'll see in Berner Oberland trains. Or just make reservation for GP on official site without needing to have a ticket. But really a long day after landing if coming overnight from U.S.

Thanks, PalenQ. We'll have been in Iceland, so we shouldn't be quite so wiped out when arriving in Switzerland. I have been wondering if the GP train is worth the trouble, especially since we'll be in beautiful Switzerland for nearly a week... We might save the Montreux for another trip. Thanks!

No Swiss people has the crazy idea to book seats in Swiss domestic trains. They run every 30 to 60 minutes anyway.

Geneva airport - Montreux (1 1/2 hrs journey): about every 30 minutes (at least!) from 5.20 am until 11.12pm
Montreux - Golden Pass itinerary - Zweisimmen - Interlaken (3 1/2 hrs journey): about every hr from 5.39am until 7.53pm
Interlaken - Wengen (40 min journey): every 30 to 60 min from 6.02am until 11.04pm

The direct Geneva - Bern train line will be interupted for works in July. Trains will run every 30 min nevertheless, but you will have to change trains and the journey will last about 30 min longer.

If you have a Half Fare Card, the Bernese Obeland Pass will most probably not be a good investment. Be aware that the Kleine Scheidegg - Jungfrau leg will not be cheaper with the Oberland Pass than with the half Fare Card.

Lucerne - Milan: the train change at Arth-Goldau is very easy (same platform). You waste your time if you wait until 12.18. If seat reservation is almost unknown in Swiss domestic traffic, it's compulsory for all trains to Italy.

If you don't like to change trains, you may be interested in the fact that there is a direct Venice bound train from Arth-Goldau (connecting train from Lucerne dp 9.18). The train change at Arth-Goldau is much easier than in Milan.

The Swiss Half Fare Card is valid up to Chiasso, about 30 miles north of Milan.

You can get discounted Lucerne (resp. Arth-Goldau) - Milan tickets in the web (www.sbb.ch/en)

Be sure to take the lovely Bernina Pass route Interlaken to Lucerne via the Brunign Pass - GPass trains also run that route and if timing is right free to hop on with Swiss Pass or Berner Oberland Pass (I think). Regular trains go all the time - lot more scenic than mainline route via Bern.

Hi bibliotecaria71,

Well, I (for one) far prefer the green, rolling-hills scenery that lies between Montreux and Zweisimmen to the dramatic high-peaks scenery of the Oberland region. I don't know if I'm the only person on the planet with that preference or if there are more folks like me, but it may be worth your while to discover if you or your nieces enjoy it. Or even if you all prefer the dramatic high-peaks scenery, it really is an amazing way to sneak up on it via the Golden Pass route.

Since you'll be generally over jet lag at that point, I would definitely do the longer route, just for the experience. Even if you don't get on a designated "GP" train, there are local trains that go that route very often. Use the SBB site that neckervd has given you, and use "via Zweisimmen" to get that routing.

Have fun as you plan!

s

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and invaluable tips! I feel better about traveling the Swiss train system. We were in Switzerland briefly last summer for the first time and logically I know that the trains are really easy, but the Golden Pass issue had me in a frenzy.

Neckardvd, thank you for the tip to change trains in Arth. Admittedly, four minutes to change trains does freak me out! (But we've been Googling and it seems very doable.)

PalenQ, I'll have to investigate the Bernina Pass further -- thanks!

Swandav2000, ok, I'm convinced. We'll take the Golden Pass or a local train (if needed).

Thank you! And feel free to pass along more tips.

You can just take an earlier train from Lucerne to Arth-Goldau - probably 30 minutes earlier. Have a coffee in the station. 4 minutes though in Switzerland should be fine but still just leave Lucerne a bit earlier for comfort sake.

Yes checking schedules shows you can also change at Lugano instead of Arth-Goldau and have about 25 minutes between trains and that there are always earlier trains to Arth-Goldau in between the ones with connections at Arth-Goldau - easy to check schedules I always use www.bahn.de/en - German railways all-European trains schedule site.

Great idea! Thank you, PalenQ. I would feel better getting a slightly earlier train for Arth -- and there is no such thing as too much coffee. The German site is really easy to use, but seemed to miss some of the trains I'd seen on other sites.

Well always check www.sbb.ch - Swiss Railways for schedules but I find bahn.de usually reliable. Anyway you can be sure trains go twice an hour Lucerne to Arth-Goldau.

I don't think I would want to do a flight from Iceland to Geneva, then several more train rides all on the same day.

Iceland is in what time zone? Not like an overnight flight - but you may want to settle for the night in say Montreux, a city everyone loves and then take the Golden Pass scenic train next day - longer than mainline route via Lausanne and Bern so be fresh and take bit longer but much more scenic route.

We debated staying the night in Montreux, but ultimately decided that the region deserved more time and a single night felt rushed. We would rather "suffer" during a long day of travel (though I'm not sure riding Swiss trains qualifies as suffering) and get to Wengen to enjoy the area on foot. We will be traveling light. For better or worse, these are our plans!

OK, no-one has explained this yet, and it's IMPORTANT.

Swiss Railways www.sbb.ch CANNOT ACCESS Trenitalia's cheap Super-economy advance rates for the Milan-Rome sector from €29.90.

If you were daft enough to use sbb.ch to book to Rome, it will always insert a whopping great megabucks €90 full-flex fare, even if a €29.90 or €39.90 or €49.90 advance-purchase fare is available. This is a bad thing, you do not want this...

Meanwhile, Trenitalia.com cannot access SBB's fares system at all, so cannot book from Luzern to Rome with a change in Arth Goldau, because it is unable to ticket the Luzern to Arth Goldau sector. It'll just say there are no trains, or rather, one train a day at 12:18, using the direct Luzern-Milan train which it CAN ticket. Got that? Good, let that sink in for a moment...

OK, so there's an obvious and easy solution for booking this journey at sensible prices, as follows:

1) You should book from Arth Goldau to Roma Termini at www.Trenitalia.com, as that'll give you fares from €29 for Arth Goldau to Milan and from €29.90 for Milan-Rome, both sectors are ticketless, you simply quote the reference on board.

2) Then buy an open local ticket from Luzern to Arth Goldau either at the station or (just to save a few minutes at the station) www.sbb.ch and print it out. That'll be valid any train that day.

Easy when you know how! ;0)

Ah it's all so easy!

Well, we did it partially right, Man_in_seat_61, we used SBB to purchase a ticket from Milan (oops! and oh, well) but we got a great price on a ticket from Milan to Rome from Italo. Generally speaking, we feel good about the process.

Thank you so much for your invaluable contributions to understanding European train travel!

Geneva to Wengen

Take train Geneva to Interlaken-Ost via Bern (or for more scenic and bit longer route take Golden Pass scenic train route via Montreux and Zweissimen to Interlaken-Ost - but when wiped out not much fun - do reconsider staying a night in Montreux -great town to relax in after all-night flight.

Once in Interlaken-Ost station transfer to the usually waiting trains to Lauterbrunnen - change there to Wengen - from one platform to another - change necessitated by track width (gauge) differences. All very seemless really.

A single night in Lausanne, Vevey, or Montreux would not "feel rushed" to me. Not as much as the plans you describe to come off a flight and directly on to a several-legged train journey!

We will be in Iceland for two days prior to our 3.5 hour flight to Geneva. There is no way I would have attempted a multi-leg train ride after a full trans-Atlantic flight! We should be a little more prepared for a long day of travel. Thank you for your suggestions!