Hi, it looks like the Bernina Express is the best of the lot. Does this sound right? How does this compare to the Glacier Express?

I've read what Rick Steves has to stay about a couple of the scenic rides. For the Bernina Express, there's a bus that connects Lugano to Tirano that goes through Lake Como. After that, it's the train.

Does someone know if it's possible to catch the bus in the Lake Como area instead of in Lugano?

Also it looks from a search here that one poster mentioned there's a train that connects Varenna with Tirano. Does this sound correct?

Regarding the Glacier Express, is this worth doing? I went to the Bernese Oberland a few years ago, but I've never been to Zermatt or the Matterhorn. I'm not sure if I've the time to make it all the way to Zermatt this time as the Glacier Express takes 8 hours from St. Moritz to Zermatt.

What do people think about the Glacier Express vs. Bernina Express?

Time frame: Week after Labor Day (early Sept.). I'm thinking of visiting Milan, Lake Como and probably Venice as well.

Thanks!

There is train service from Varenna Esino to Tirano. The station at Varenna is unmanned.

Direct, no change:
depart 9:18 am, arrive 10:45 am
depart 1:19 pm, arrive 2:42 pm
depart 3:20 pm, arrive 4:42 pm

One change at Sondrio:
depart 7:26 am, arive 9:32 am
depart 10:18 am, arrive 11:50 am

Hi 111 - I haven't done the Glacier Express, but the 'Bernina Express' is a beautiful ride.

'Does someone know if it's possible to catch the bus in the Lake Como area instead of in Lugano?'

Yes. There is a Swiss postal bus service (- 'Palm Express) connecting Lake Como (Menaggio) and San Moritz.
i.e. Lugano-Menaggio-S.Moritz - and vice versa.

http://www.travelswiss.info/palm-express.shtml

I'm not aware of the Lugano-Tirano bus service you mention.
But as Jean says, you can reach Tirano by train from Varenna.
http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html

If you're planning a round trip from Lake Como in one day you could do it either way, depending on timetables ...

Hope this helps ...

Steve

Great, thanks very much folks!

By the way, if I take the Bernina Express I need to start the ride in Tirano. According to Rick Steves, the bus from Lugano stops in Sorico in the northern tip of Lake Como and then goes to Tirano. I don't know if I can catch the bus in Sorico.

Sounds like the train from Varenna is more convenient.

By the way, is one direction of the Bernina Express "better" than the other? Obviously one is the reverse of the other, but does the scenery seem more dramatic in a certain direction?

Thanks again.

I personally prefer the ride in the direction St. Moritz - Tirano. But honestly, it doesn't really matter.

Do you plan to stay overnight in the Engadin or is it just a day trip?

You could do a loop with an overnight in the Engadin. Palm Express bus from Menaggio to St. Moritz (or stay in Sils or Pontresina), next day take the Bernina Express to Tirano, then train to Varenna.

I wouldn't go all the way to Zermatt. The Glacier Express is not as scenic as the Bernina Express and it is a LONG ride.

Ingo

I did the Bernina Express S-N - i.e. Tirano-San Moritz.
But I'm sure it's equally scenic starting from San Moritz ...

I think Rick Steves is wrong (- or perhaps you misread it). The bus service (- Palm Express) is Lugano-Menaggio-Sorico-San Moritz, NOT Tirano.

Where are you staying on lake Como?

Steve

>does the scenery seem more dramatic in a certain direction?

Don´t you think it is a personal preference? Dop you prefer the ascent up the mountains from a valley with palm trees to glacier-fed lakes, or the descent from the glaciers to the palm trees?

Thanks. I really haven't thought about this very much though I'm supposed to leave in about four weeks. Normally I don't wait this long to do my planning, but I was waiting to hear about a friend's wedding plans in the UK. Since it seems that there're some changes, I decided to see if I can try to fit in Switzerland.

I've not thought about where to stay on Como. I'm thinking Bellagio.

This is the Rick Steves link. It's pretty useful:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/desti...srailjourn.htm

"The bus begins in Lugano and runs along the west side of Italy’s Lake Como, eventually arriving at Tirano, where the route continues by train."

It seems like there're two buses. The one that connects to Bernina Express is the one that goes from Lugano to Tirano?

I probably should think about the direction of the train ride more, but ultimately I guess it'll be driven by air ticket prices -- whether I fly to A first and return from B or the other way around. The ticket prices can be different and I'll stick to the cheaper option.

Thanks again.

Palm Express:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...split/palm.xml

By the way, how long is the Menaggio to St. Moritz portion?

The end of the article says Lugano to St. Moritz takes 3 3/4 hours. Thanks!

Menaggio-San Moritz would be about 2hrs 30'

Like I said, I don't believe there is a Lugano-Tirano bus service - certainly not a DIRECT one anyway.

If there is a bus service from Lake Como to Tirano it would duplicate the train service via Colico/Sondrio - and you would likely have to change bus in Sondrio. Train to Tirano would almost certainly be quicker

If you are staying in Bellagio you could either train Varenna-Tirano or bus Menaggio-San Moritz - depending on whether you want to do the Bernina Express S-N or N-S.

Hope this helps ...

Steve

Here is a description of the "Palm Express" bus route. It does not go through Tirano or through the Bernina Pass:
http://www.postbus.ch/en/index_pag/p...express_st.htm

Thanks. I got this impression that maybe Lugano-Tirano bus is seasonal.

Anyway, I prefer trains anyway.

I probably will try the Varenna-Tirano train and take the train betweeen St. Moritz and Tirano with Bernina Express. It doesn't seem like the bus through Como and Italy has much to offer if I'm already planning to stay there.

Hope to start the planning soon.

Thanks again!

The Majola Pass bus ride (aka Palm Express i believe) St Moritz to Lugano is one of the very most scenic i've been on - stops in Menaggio on the lake and skirts the lake for a while before cutting overland to Lugano.

The huge-boulder-strewn Majola Pass itself is awesome.

The Bernina Express is my top scenic train ride in Europe - on some services in summer on regular trains there are open-air flat cars that make the route even more scintillating.

Get off at either Bernina Ospiz or Alp Grum and walk around the glacier lake and to the glacier. No place to store luggage perhaps though which is why i recommend this outstanding ride as a day trip from St Moritz (or Tirano)

Sorry. Time is short and I don't have time to do the research.

Let's say I fly to Zurich and arrive late afternoon.

What would be a good place to spend a night? It looks like Zurich-St. Moritz is a 3.5 hour train ride.

The next day I take the train to Tirano and to Varenna. Then I possibly connect via ferry to Bellagio.

St. Moritz-Tirano looks to be over 2h. (I guess this is the best part of the Bernina Express?)

Tirano-Varenna about 1.5h.

What would be good stops along the way? Does this rough plan sound ok?

Thanks again!

Others may say you should push on when you arrive in Zurich. (Where are you arriving from?) But if you land in late afternoon, by the time you retrieve your luggage and take the train to the main train station, it's really late in the afternoon.

Why not just spend the night in Zurich? You have to go there anyway to catch the train to St. Moritz. Take the first train in the morning and arrive by lunch time.

I can't tell from your last post whether Bellagio is on the itinerary or if you're still deciding where to go in Italy. When is your trip?

The Majola Pass is indeed spectacular. My husband and I did the Glacier Express last year; we had to get to Sierre from Filisurs. It was festive and pretty, but the scenery wasn't that great, except for one pass. Lots of time spent sitting in railroad stations. Overpriced food. St Moritz is not that pretty either...stay outside there inpontresina or another gorgeous place in the Engadine. We skipped Zermatt and did the valley next to it, the Val D"anniviers. You can hike or tour by postal bus. Incredible place. Loved St Jean, Vercorin and Grimentz. The Val D"Herens is just west of that with other charming villages accessible from the town of Sion.

Hi, this is supposed to happen week of Labor Day, so in about four weeks. Yes you can see, I really need to buy tickets now and book hotels. It's really late in the game, but as I mentioned, I was waiting to hear about wedding plans for a friend in the UK.

I don't have very much time, so I think that if I fly into Zurich (fom NYC), I'll probably press on to St. Moritz or some town nearby where I can do the Bernina Express train ride. Because I'm planning to leave after work on Friday, I most likely have to take a very late flight and I think I'll connect in London. I won't arrive in Zurich until 4:30 or so.

I do want to go to Lake Como for sure, as I've never been, and I think that I'll choose to stay in Bellagio by default.

Then I'll go to Milan and finish up in Venice.

I know it sounds like a lot for a week, but I'm pretty used to rushing. Also I've been to Venice before. I'm interested in going there to see the Venice Biennale.

I've also been to Milan before, but only for a day, in 1999.

Lake Como is new.

As I mentioned, I've been to Bernese Oberland, but the Bernina Express is new.

Given all these time constraints, what are people's suggestions?

"I think I'll choose to stay in Bellagio by default."

Actually, at this late date, you'll be lucky to find a hotel room in Bellagio or Varenna. Try www.venere.com. Otherwise, consider Menaggio which is a bigger town with more hotels in all budget ranges. There have also been some recent posts about staying in Lecco (further along the rail line from Tirano to Varenna on the way to Milan).

Wow. Is early Sept. still high tourist season for Como?

I need to wrap this up soon. My friend seems to be leaning towards the wedding, so I may have to rearrange my trip.

Thanks.

Neither Bellagio nor Varenna are large towns, and they remain popular destinations into early October. Weekends in particular, because of the area's proximity/accessibility from Milan.

Unless, of course, you can afford the Grand Hotel Serbelloni in Bellagio which will probably not be fully booked because of its very high rates.

Do consider Menaggio, though. It's only 15 minutes by ferry from Varenna. Not as crowded, but also not as charming. Good luck and have a great time.