Swiss Air seat assignments
Sep 2nd, 2014, 11:08 AM
#41
Yes! And the jerk should be kicked off the flight (they can kick him off in mid-air for all I care) and he should be banned from flying that airline for 5 years. This was discussed at length in the Lounge and it got mighty prickly.
Sep 2nd, 2014, 12:01 PM
#42
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10 years ago I paid £500 for trans Atlantic flights, now I pay £500 for the same flights.
Difference being that national governments steal huge amounts in tax on each ticket price, all in the name of the environment.
Carriers have to claw money back someway whilst meeting market pricing expectations for economy tickets.
Difference being that national governments steal huge amounts in tax on each ticket price, all in the name of the environment.
Carriers have to claw money back someway whilst meeting market pricing expectations for economy tickets.
Sep 3rd, 2014, 09:14 AM
#45
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Infamous has only one definition laurieco.
Re 'seat defender' discussion getting 'prickly', that should tell you something. Air rage is no different than road rage. It is a SYMPTOM of something being wrong. The question is, what is it that is wrong? Don't attack the symptom, look for the cause.
You think it is something the airlines are doing wrong. I suggest it is something the consumers are doing wrong. It is the consumer who looks for and books cheap seats. All the consequences of that are the symptoms people complain about.
Flying cost the consumer HALF today what it cost 30 years ago. There is no getting around that. There is also no getting around that costs to the airline are NOT half what they were back then. So HOW do you expect to rationalize that inequality?
Either you will get less for your money (as we are) or you will have to pay more for the seat. You cannot have it both ways.
Either the airline will squeeze more seats into a plane and provide less legroom which results in people using 'seat defender' in RAGE over what annoys them while the person in front of them throws water in their face in RAGE over not being able to recline their seat, or they both agree to pay more for more legroom.
The problem is neither of them is willing to pay more, they want their own selfish preference to be met at the cost of the other person's preference.
Re 'seat defender' discussion getting 'prickly', that should tell you something. Air rage is no different than road rage. It is a SYMPTOM of something being wrong. The question is, what is it that is wrong? Don't attack the symptom, look for the cause.
You think it is something the airlines are doing wrong. I suggest it is something the consumers are doing wrong. It is the consumer who looks for and books cheap seats. All the consequences of that are the symptoms people complain about.
Flying cost the consumer HALF today what it cost 30 years ago. There is no getting around that. There is also no getting around that costs to the airline are NOT half what they were back then. So HOW do you expect to rationalize that inequality?
Either you will get less for your money (as we are) or you will have to pay more for the seat. You cannot have it both ways.
Either the airline will squeeze more seats into a plane and provide less legroom which results in people using 'seat defender' in RAGE over what annoys them while the person in front of them throws water in their face in RAGE over not being able to recline their seat, or they both agree to pay more for more legroom.
The problem is neither of them is willing to pay more, they want their own selfish preference to be met at the cost of the other person's preference.
Sep 3rd, 2014, 09:22 AM
#46
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Laurieco
Infamous as in lousy!
Search for their reviews. Zurich seems to particularly attract fist fights. The departmental staff appear to operate in isolation to each other.
One theme which appears time and again is selling tickets which allow 10 minutes to connect in Zurich. I agree it is up to passengers to organise their own lives but many inexperienced travellers don't understand hubs and connections.
Turkish Air and Swiss are routinely bashed on forums in Europe.
Infamous as in lousy!
Search for their reviews. Zurich seems to particularly attract fist fights. The departmental staff appear to operate in isolation to each other.
One theme which appears time and again is selling tickets which allow 10 minutes to connect in Zurich. I agree it is up to passengers to organise their own lives but many inexperienced travellers don't understand hubs and connections.
Turkish Air and Swiss are routinely bashed on forums in Europe.
Sep 3rd, 2014, 12:40 PM
#47
I know what infamous means Sojourntraveller, I was being sarcastic. But if it makes you feel superior to give me a vocabulary lesson, knock yourself out. Also, I think some of us do not believe you when you say air travel costs half what it did 30 years ago, even taking into consideration inflation or comparable salaries. Maybe the flights you take are costing you half, but that has not been my experience. You can say it over and over, but it doesn't make it so. You sound like an airline employee desperately trying to defend the indefensible. Again, knock yourself out.
Dickie, I'm not surprised. Luckily, my time with Swiss will be short and (not so) sweet. If they give me enough wine on the flight, I'll be happy, and I'll make up the $58 we had to spend to get our lousy seats.
Dickie, I'm not surprised. Luckily, my time with Swiss will be short and (not so) sweet. If they give me enough wine on the flight, I'll be happy, and I'll make up the $58 we had to spend to get our lousy seats.
Sep 3rd, 2014, 01:17 PM
#50
Actually, the poster I am thinking of has the word "travel" in their screen name. But it is that same attitude of "I am right and you have no idea what you are talking about because I am smarter than all of you" about them.
Sep 4th, 2014, 09:18 AM
#51
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I have been doing the same transatlantic flights for 30 years. I keep all my credit card statements, the charge for a return ticket Manchester to Washington in 1990 was £180 with no tax.
I have booked flights from Manchester to Charleston to travel in 6 weeks, the cost was £219 plus £314 tax, total cost £533.
The concept that air travel has halved over time MAY include the business models of low cost operators. We regularly paid £200 to fly to Europe, now we can pay £50 or less.
I have booked flights from Manchester to Charleston to travel in 6 weeks, the cost was £219 plus £314 tax, total cost £533.
The concept that air travel has halved over time MAY include the business models of low cost operators. We regularly paid £200 to fly to Europe, now we can pay £50 or less.
Sep 4th, 2014, 01:40 PM
#52
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Can't see the "cheaper now than 30 years ago" validlity. My checkbook and receipts show my $485 transatlantic flight 30+ years ago, and an $1100 ticket for the same flight next month! Maybe with "inflationary costs and costs of living, average salaries, etc " figured into the very didactic formula...
Sep 4th, 2014, 02:29 PM
#53
I don't need a link to tell me what my credit card statements have been telling me. Maybe some people are paying half of what they paid to fly 30 years ago, I'm sure not. And FWIW, 30 years ago, American Airlines, United and other U.S. airlines gave free drinks (read: alcoholic) in coach on overseas flights. Not any more. So not only am I paying more for my flights, if I travel on certain airlines, I have to cough up for wine as well.
Sep 5th, 2014, 08:28 AM
#54
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Umm, come on people you do not compare a price today with a price 30 years ago based on the amount on your receipts. You compare based on what a dollar bought 30 years ago vs. what it buys today.
Start by reading here if you really don't understand:
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/
You have to compare in 'real' values which means you have adjusted the two prices you are comparing to make them comparable. A dollar in 1978 bought a lot more than a dollar does today. We call that difference inflation and to compare prices you have to adjust for inflation.
Read here on what has happened with airline prices over time. The numbers used have been adjusted for inflation and so are comparing 'real' costs.
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/10/eve...ow-1980-level/
In there is this sentence:
"the inflation-adjusted cost-per-mile traveled has gone down even more than the 40% reduction in the average air fare since the peak in 1980. The bottom chart below shows the downward trend in real cost per mile traveled (including fees), and compared to 1980 ($0.323 per mile), the cost in 2011 was 52% cheaper ($0.155 per mile)."
The 1980 number has been adjusted for imflation so you can compare it to the number in 2011. Both are in 2011 dollar values.
Start by reading here if you really don't understand:
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/
You have to compare in 'real' values which means you have adjusted the two prices you are comparing to make them comparable. A dollar in 1978 bought a lot more than a dollar does today. We call that difference inflation and to compare prices you have to adjust for inflation.
Read here on what has happened with airline prices over time. The numbers used have been adjusted for inflation and so are comparing 'real' costs.
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/10/eve...ow-1980-level/
In there is this sentence:
"the inflation-adjusted cost-per-mile traveled has gone down even more than the 40% reduction in the average air fare since the peak in 1980. The bottom chart below shows the downward trend in real cost per mile traveled (including fees), and compared to 1980 ($0.323 per mile), the cost in 2011 was 52% cheaper ($0.155 per mile)."
The 1980 number has been adjusted for imflation so you can compare it to the number in 2011. Both are in 2011 dollar values.
Sep 5th, 2014, 08:35 AM
#55
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Here is an inflation calculator to play with if you want.
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
You will see that what cost you $1 in 1980 would cost you $2.89 today based on US inflation. So for example, your $485 flight 30 years ago mokka4 would cost $1401 in adjusted dollars today. You're paying only $1100. Still believe your flight isn't cheaper?
That particular example may not be 50% cheaper but remember, the 50% figure is for the average US domestic flight. So don't get hung up on every flight not being 50% cheaper. Your flight is cheaper in real $ than 30 years ago. That's the bottom line.
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
You will see that what cost you $1 in 1980 would cost you $2.89 today based on US inflation. So for example, your $485 flight 30 years ago mokka4 would cost $1401 in adjusted dollars today. You're paying only $1100. Still believe your flight isn't cheaper?
That particular example may not be 50% cheaper but remember, the 50% figure is for the average US domestic flight. So don't get hung up on every flight not being 50% cheaper. Your flight is cheaper in real $ than 30 years ago. That's the bottom line.
Sep 5th, 2014, 09:24 AM
#56
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I flew from ZRH to PHL this summer to visit my mom. I'd had good experiences with Swiss before but USAir was cheaper.
It turned out to be probably the best economy long-haul flight I've ever had. The plane wasn't full, there were empty seats in front of and behind me so I could recline without stressing anyone or myself. I had an aisle seat in a middle row with nobody next to me so I could spread out a bit. The in-flight movie was still just a big screen at the front, but I had DH's Kindle Fire loaded up with my fav TV series and movies plus a couple of books, so I didn't lack for entertainment.
The food was lousy, but I figured it would be, so I ate beforehand and brought a few snacks on board. The FAs were all pleasant and efficient and the flight itself was smooth as glass. Best of all, the pax in economy class included an all-girls choir from the Midwest coming home from their first European tour. As we descended into Philly, they sang an a capella hymn. Their voices were simply beautiful. I think the pax in biz class were jealous!
The whole experience was the antithesis of air rage. Is there such a thing as economy class air bliss?
It turned out to be probably the best economy long-haul flight I've ever had. The plane wasn't full, there were empty seats in front of and behind me so I could recline without stressing anyone or myself. I had an aisle seat in a middle row with nobody next to me so I could spread out a bit. The in-flight movie was still just a big screen at the front, but I had DH's Kindle Fire loaded up with my fav TV series and movies plus a couple of books, so I didn't lack for entertainment.
The food was lousy, but I figured it would be, so I ate beforehand and brought a few snacks on board. The FAs were all pleasant and efficient and the flight itself was smooth as glass. Best of all, the pax in economy class included an all-girls choir from the Midwest coming home from their first European tour. As we descended into Philly, they sang an a capella hymn. Their voices were simply beautiful. I think the pax in biz class were jealous!
The whole experience was the antithesis of air rage. Is there such a thing as economy class air bliss?
Sep 5th, 2014, 01:41 PM
#57
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Weisser Tee, a big factor is the empty seats. That relieves a lot of air rage issues. Unfortunately, there are less empty seats on average now than in the past. From last link I gave above:
"The “passenger load factor” (PLF) has been gradually increasing over time and has been above 80% for the last three years (2009-2011). Ten years ago the PLF was 70% in 2001, twenty years ago it was 62.6% in 1991, and thirty years ago it was 58.6%. There were a few years in the early 1970s when the PLF was below 50%.
That probably helps explain why the flying experience is less pleasant today than in the past – we no longer have the luxury of flying on planes with one-half or one-third of the seats empty."
"The “passenger load factor” (PLF) has been gradually increasing over time and has been above 80% for the last three years (2009-2011). Ten years ago the PLF was 70% in 2001, twenty years ago it was 62.6% in 1991, and thirty years ago it was 58.6%. There were a few years in the early 1970s when the PLF was below 50%.
That probably helps explain why the flying experience is less pleasant today than in the past – we no longer have the luxury of flying on planes with one-half or one-third of the seats empty."
Sep 7th, 2014, 06:26 AM
#59
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"I'm simply saying half-empty flights are not the norm these days and full flights are a contributing factor to the increases in 'air rage'."
Really? Full flights contribute to air rage?? I had no idea!! My goodness, thank you so much for that illuminating insight!!
You know, if you avoid talking down to people, you probably won't generate reactions like that of laurieco. And as an FYI, my husband just flew to PHL from ZRH on USAirways and had a similar experience. Nobody directly in front of, behind, or next to him.
I have taken Swiss Business Class more than once. It's fine but not spectacular. IMO, the beds are a little too close to the ground. And some of my taller colleagues find them a little cramped. Singapore Airlines biz on the A380 is a superior product and I can sometimes find biz seats on those Singapore Air flights from FRA to JFK cheaper than a biz class Swiss flight from ZRH to New York airports.
Really? Full flights contribute to air rage?? I had no idea!! My goodness, thank you so much for that illuminating insight!!
You know, if you avoid talking down to people, you probably won't generate reactions like that of laurieco. And as an FYI, my husband just flew to PHL from ZRH on USAirways and had a similar experience. Nobody directly in front of, behind, or next to him.
I have taken Swiss Business Class more than once. It's fine but not spectacular. IMO, the beds are a little too close to the ground. And some of my taller colleagues find them a little cramped. Singapore Airlines biz on the A380 is a superior product and I can sometimes find biz seats on those Singapore Air flights from FRA to JFK cheaper than a biz class Swiss flight from ZRH to New York airports.
