" Perhaps the labor unions being stronger in Europe are a reason these labor-saving checkouts are not in wide use?"

Unions are WEAKER in European grocery stores than in the US. I can't recall a single strike in the past 20 years, and the kind of nonsense Californian supermarket unions get up would be simply illegal in parts of Europe

Self-service checkouts are not very effective (or popular) in shops that cater for really big shopping trips. They take up much more space than assistant-operated checkouts, and they're slower. So in a typical 40-checkout medium-sized hypermarket, you'd need 60 or more self -service units, which would take up at least twice the space. IF anyone had designed a self-service checkout for big shopping trips: most just can't cope, and many are actually designed around everything going into just one bag.

Where they're effective is in convenience-store style operations (which, by European standards, is what many US supermarkets are). So M&S, for example, makes a very high proportion of recently-refurbed checkouts self-service. Ditto in the UK, urban Co-ops.

California is not America and the strength of supermarket workers there in unions is definitely not seen in my area, where supermarket unions have effectively been smashed -no one would dare strike here or they would lose their jobs. Period.

I'd bet Carrefour's unions are more potent than say at my local Kroger - in a way they bought off the old full-time workers by giving them a decent wage but not rarely hire anyone fulltime with such benefits.

"Self-service checkouts are not very effective (or popular) in shops that cater for really big shopping trips. They take up much more space than assistant-operated checkouts, and they're slower."

The lastest innovation in some of our supermarkets (DC area) is that you can pick up a little scanning device at the door and some bags (or bring your own reusable bags), then you scan and bag your groceries as you go, and leave via the self-service checkout by scanning a code on the checkout counter and paying with your credit card. So the capacity of the self-service checkout counter never comes into play.

I saw the type of scan as you go in operation in a supermarket in Florence four years ago - first time i ever saw such a thing and wonder why it has not spread over here - seems to be the ultimate labor-saving device - as long i guess as 'losses' can be controlled.

As I said some Albert Heijns here have them. You may have to undergo a spot check. It is the only way to check for losses, but a total pain if you are spot checked as you have to unpack everything for re-scanning.

"California is not America"

This just gets better and better.

oh how i wish i were so easily amused! So much time, so little to do, right stfc?

I'm not amused. This is the most boring subject I've ever seen, certainly here. I dip in occasionally to see if I can spot what the point of it is. I haven't spotted it yet.

Lots of time, thank you for asking, but plenty to do. Unlike some it seems.

well if you have not got the point yet i'd give up trying rather than being a A #1 ........

actually stfc - i retract my last post or would if i could - why do i care what drivel you say - actually kind of fun. Carry on

@stfc; for someone not interested, you spend an awful lot of time here..... But hey, everyone their taste!

That being said; I too like roaming around foreign supermarktes. Especially the large French hypermarkets are a real treat to someone fromt the Netherlands, where supermarkets tend to be rather small(ish).
French hypermarkets are big and sell so much more products, a lot of which you can't easily buy in the Netherlands for instance.

My local Albert Heijn also has self-scan where you take a hand-scanner at the entrance and just pay by card at the other end. Very easy, even for the weekly shopping.

So yeah, I do understand this topic and topics like these are what you could caal 'the power of the internet'. Before the internet existed, you would think you are the only one with an 'obsession' like this. With the internet, you discover there are many many more like you!

stfc - Tommie said it all

Capiche?

Ever tried crème de cassis with sparkling white wine?
Yawn.

Pal - is this still going on? Hell's bells. Right, I shall put my cards on the table.

Firstly, 'Tommie'. I don't know who on earth he/she is and I am sure he/she has no idea at all about how long I spend each day looking at Fodors so no, I don't 'capiche' whatever that post is going on about. But anybody who has and 'obsession' with supermarkets and gets excited about self-scan checkouts has a problem I suggest.

To the main subject. There are supermarkets all over the world, they are all essentially the same and are owned by very few multinational companies. They all sell the same things, and we all use them. I can assure you that the Carrefours in Muscat and Singapore are very very similar to all the others I have been into. Identical products are available everywhere, internationally. It's a fact of the 21st century.

The only slight difference from place to place is that some products local to the country will be added in, and it is blindingly obvious to say that tourists generally will go in to buy something 'local'. I do, you do, everybody does, experiencing different things is why we travel.

Supermarkets around the world are not interesting at all. I've been into many. That is my opinion and I have seen nothing here in 70+ posts to change my mind. But I'm ever optimistic. Alles klar?

stfc: I may not be a 'regular' on this forum like you, but I do spend enough time here, to get a basic idea who you are. Btw: I am a 'he' from the Netherlands, but you may have already guessed that. To learn more; just click on my name!

It is obvious you don't get the point of this topic. You have said this over and over and the remarks in your last post make this clear ones more. Point is clear, but frankly your opinion on this matter, doesn't interest me that much, probably just as much you are not interested in this topic, as you keep saying, but keep returning nevertheless.

Other people do like this topic, and if that means I have a 'problem', so be it. if that is my only problem, I can conclude I live a good life at the moment!

Let us enjoy our discussions and find some other topic to nag about.

What's more to the point:

<b> Where are the bloody trip reports PalQ was going to write? </B>

Promises, promises...

Tommie, good morning. It's nice and quiet before America wakes up.

"Let us enjoy our discussions and find some other topic to nag about."

Yes please. But not 'paint I have watched dry'.

stfc, if you find the topic boring, why don't you just stop reading it?

I mean, every day there are a few hundred posts on this board which I don't find interesting. The key to happiness is that I don't read them and so I avoid the frustration of being bored. Thus I also don't feel the urge to post a dozen times that the subject isn't interesting to me.

To be quite frank, this would be an advantage to everyone since I find any post about a supermarket a lot more interesting than a post about your feelings in regard to this topic.

Fair enough, I'll piss off now. Nobody has explained, as I originally asked, why supermarkets are being talked about on a travel forum so I won't bore you any more.

I need to go to my local Tesco Direct to get a newspaper now. Have a nice day.

stfc: discussion closed as far as I am concerned. And indeed; always very pleasant to read and post in our (EU) morning!

Back on topic:
My first visit to a hypermarche I am really aware of, was in 1986. Hypermarche Mammouth near Montpellier. My parents and I stood on a campsite nearby and went to the Mammouth a few times. Shops like these did not exist in the Netherlands. I remeber being flabbergasted by the 52 check-outs, all the things that weren't sold in the Netherlands and the overall grandness of the store. Since then I am hooked on visiting at least a few supermarkets and hypermarkets on my vacation. So one way or antoher, that first visit got me hooked.