Bob2010

We are a family of four (two teenage daughters) traveling to Europe next summer. My wife and I did the Eurail Pass trip ten years ago and enjoyed it but we wanted to see more of the countryside and are determined to drive for the most part. Our girls have never been to Europe and really want to see Italy (especially Rome and Venice), Paris and London so we are trying to see quite a bit in 18 days. On top of that I want to check out the Swiss Alps. We have the plane tickets already and are arriving in and departing from Zurich. Our current thoughts for this road trip are 2 days in Verona/Venice area, 4 days in Tuscany area (one day down to Rome); 1 night in Lyon, France on way to Paris; 3 days in Paris; 3-4 days in London; 3-4 days in Switzerland (possibly Luzern or Interlaken areas). Any recommendations for this trip (places to see, places to stay, something to add or drop, general thoughts on driving vs. rail, etc.) would be appreciated.

Gordon_R

No doubt others will comment on this too, but my first reaction is you need to get hold of a map and look at the distances between the places you mention. Then factor in the traffic congestion in and around European cities which will drastically reduce the mileage you can achieve in a day.

Basically the itinerary you have in mind - unless it has some drastic surgery - will just be a succession of long days in the car, without the opportunity to SEE anything of the places you are passing through (e.g. "...one day down to Rome..."). I'm afraid it all sounds too much like National Lampoons European Vacation.

hetismij

I am a big fan of road trips and driving holidays but...

Driving and especially parking in European cities can be a nightmare. Parking will cost you a lot! You do not allow travel days in your planning.

When are you making this trip? That can seriously affect how far you can travel in a day.
Are you sure you will be able to take your hire car to all these countries - especially the UK.

If you want to see the countryside and smaller towns villages, in a more limited area then hiring a car would make sense but if you want to visit mainly cities then I think the train and maybe a flight or two makes more sense than driving to them, finding somewhere safe to park the car etc etc.

ribeirasacra

On top of what the others have said about mileage and cities you will also need to return the car to the country your originally hired it in or face a hefty penalty.

flanneruk

This looks like a GREAT drive.

Just don't listen to the boring old pedants saying you won't have time to see anything. With all those lovely motorways to see and roadside motels to stay in, you're quite right to avoid wasting time on a load of boring old ruins. Because that's all most city-centre hotels in Europe are.

isabel

My husband and two teen daughters did a similar trip a few years ago and loved it. However - we had 22 days AND we had open jaw tickets so didn't have to backtrack AND didn't do London. So you have two major problems - too many places for that time frame, and having to get back to Switzerland to fly out - and probably drop the car. When we did it the drop in a different county fee wasn't too bad and that's what we did. But I've checked out fees in the last few years and they can be very high.

So I would do this itinerary: pick up the car in Zurich and drive to the Bernese Oberland and spend two nights. The middle day you can do a hike or take a cog train to "see" the alps. Then drive to Venice (according to Viamichelin.com it is 6 1/2 hour drive. Leave the car in Mestre (there are reasonably priced garages you can leave a car for a few days and it's cheaper and faster than driving over the causeway to the parking lot there) and spend three nights in Venice. You will really only have two days. Then drive to Tuscany - spend about 5 days (either pick a base and do day trips or drive a few hours each day to another town). During this time you could take a day trip to Rome. We parked in Orvieto and took the train which was much easier than parking/driving in Rome. From Tuscany to Paris is about 12 hours drive so you'd need to pick someplace for one or two days to break it up. That gives you six more days. One of which you need to get back to Zurich (about a seven hour drive) so only five days. I'd spend it all in Paris. Save London for a future trip. It's just too much and you'd need to take a car ferry, way too much trouble.

hetismij

Isabel's plan works, provided you are not travelling on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday in the months July and August. Those are the days that Europe's motorways become one big parking lot as all for Europe seems to want to move to another part of it.
I still think even with Isabel's plan it makes more sense to do it by train, or at least return the car to Switzerland before going to Paris. No sense in paying for a hire car & parking it when you won't be needing it there.

If you are prepared to forego Paris and London this trip you could spend your time exploring Switzerland and Italy quite comfortably by car. Go to Paris and London on an open jaw flight another time.

isabel

I agree with what hetismij says. I was trying to work out a plan that would work that was as close to the OP's idea as possible. But in reality I do agree it would be a much nicer trip without driving through France. Another idea would be after Italy to drive up to Geneva and return the car (still be in Switzerland), then train to Paris and train or fly back to Zurich.

Michael

I agree with the general idea that you should start in Zurich and finish the road trip in Geneva. Take the train to Paris and the train to London. For the Geneva - Paris stretch, I believe that PREM tickets can be purchased (discounted, but non-refundable and non-exchangeable) 3 months ahead of time.

janisj

Beyond impossible. Sorry. You want to drive around half of Europe - in the summer - R-T loop from/to Zurich --- w/ a <u>day trip to Rome</u> from Tuscany no less!

You have listed 18 days -- but don't account for travel time anywhere. Your plan includes approx 6 FULL days of driving. Leaving you 12 days to 'see' Zurich, Verona/Venice, Tuscany, Rome, Lyon, Paris, London, and Luzern or Interlaken.

Get yourselves a map and back to the drawing board.

janisj

Meant to add - substituting trains for driving on some of those legs helps a tiny bit - but not enough.

18 days? Italy and Switzerland. Switzerland and France. Switzerland/Paris/London (no driving except for a few days in Switzerland the rest by train). These are doable options.

Since you are locked into Zurich - Switzerland and Italy makes about the most sense.

bilboburgler

I like isabel's plan more. Timing is everything as the migration of the birds is as nothing to Northern Europeans heading south.

One thing that does stand out is that on your own a train journey is relly good fun but with 4 the costs go through the roof hence I guess you are trying to do this by a car.

I might go North from Zurich rather than South so. Munich, Lake constance, Strasbourg, Paris. The roads are better. If you do Rome I would carry on and do Naples and then Puglia. then back to Venice

amwosu

I would skip Paris and London on this trip. Too much to do and see in both of those places and too much time spent getting there unless you fly between cities. Paris and London combined make a great 8-16 day vacation. "one day down to Rome."? With traffic, parking logistics and crowded sites there would be little point.

Give your kids a love of Europe with more time actually IN towns and villages rather than in a car looking out the window. They will yearn for more and have something to look forward to for future vacations. Include a mix of tiny villages, medium sized towns and large cities but in a less spread out area than you propose.

I think you are on the right track about getting to see more by car as far as small towns and villages are concerned. However, I would use public transport between major cities as it will likely be much faster. I wouldn't take a car to a city. I've returned a car to Paris twice and both times were a nightmare. I know its a piece of cake for some people but for a first time it can be pretty hairy.

I've not driven through any of the places you plan to go but had a ball driving around rural France on past trips. I used Honfleur as a base in Normandy and drove around for four days. I should have picked the car up and dropped in Rouen insteady of Paris which was stressful. I used St. Remy as a base in Provence, picking the car up and dropping it at the Avignon train station and exploring the Luberon hill towns for four days. I suggest you consider doing something similar in Switzerland and Italy.

Figure in jetlag at the beginning and enjoy a day or two in the Zurich area. No one needs to drive jetlagged in a foreign country. Pick up a car to enjoy Swiss villages then drop it somewhere in Switzerland. From there take a train to somewhere in Italy and enjoy a city or two via public transport. Pick up a car and enjoy Tuscany, drop the car in Italy then head back to Zurich via train.

I would start with a map and some information on trains and planes. Where can I get to in Italy from Zurich via high speed train or inexpensive flights?

Bob2010

Isabel, hetismij and the rest, thanks for the help. As I suspected, it does seem to be too much in the time we have. Obviously we are on somewhat of a budget (or we would have looked more seriously at an open-jaw) and we are concerned we may not get back to Europe anytime soon. By the way, we are doing this trip in the last part of June and first half of July, so it sounds like we need to limit driving on weekends.

You have definitely made the case for no car needed in Paris or London. The idea of driving the car back to Geneva sounds promising and we will look into that. We will also look into rail or flights for the Paris leg (and London if we keep it). I have read where you can get some fairly cheap flights but they don't always fly into the major airports (London Gatwick, for example). Would this be a problem? It sounds OK on paper but I would guess going by rail is more convenient.

Anyway, thank you for your help. It is much appreciated!

janisj

I am confused:

"<i>Obviously we are on somewhat of a budget (or we would have looked more seriously at an open-jaw)</i>"

Open jaw would almost certainly be cheaper than having to backtrack to Zurich. One Jaw tickets are usually no more expensive that R-T.

Also - Gatwick is most definitely not a 'minor' airport. Did someone give you that idea?? It is a very major international hub.

Driving is a great way to see a lot -- however not for seeing the major cities on your list. Driving into most is difficult (occasionally harrowing), parking is either non-existent or VERY expensive.

Many think that covering more territory lets one see more. In reality, usually the more you move around the less you get to see. When you add all the travel, packing/unpacking, checking in/checking out, getting acclimated to the new city, etc . . . . Well all that just REALLY eats into your time for seeing the sites. and also factor in 2 nights somewhere doesn't equal 2 days there. Travel time and such means 2 nights = approx 1.5 days in most cases.

annhig

Hi bob,

as all the others have said, too many places too little time, plus you have locked yourselves into one airport which complicates matters slightly. or a lot!

the one good aspect is that your trip will be over before the worst of the holiday traffic gets going, which is the END of july.

in your 18 days, you could do something like this:

Day 1 - arrive Zurich. get train to Luzern. Stay 3 nights.
Day 2 - Luzern [mountain, recovering from jetlag]
Day 3 - Luzern [ditto]
Day 4 - train to Venice - stay 3 nights.
Day 5 - Venice
Day 6 - Venice
Day 7 - Train to Rome - stay 4 nights
Day 8 - Rome
Day 9 - Rome
Day 10- Rome
Day 11- Pick up car - drive to tuscany [agritourismo or similar] stay 5 nights
Day 12 - Tuscany
Day 13 - tuscany
Day 14 - Tuscany
Day 15 - Tuscany
day 16 - drive to ? Pisa, get train to Zurich
day 17 - stay Zurich
day 18 - fly home.

I'm not sure of Pisa would be the best place to return your car, but if you look at trenitalia.it or www.bahn.de you can work out the trains.

the 3-5 nights in cities will enable you to rent apartments [3 nights is the usual minimum stay] which will be cheaper than hotels, and an agritourismo in Tuscany should also be cheaper than a hotel. some offer evening meals, some don't.

if you wanted more driving, then I would drop Rome and rent the car when you leave Venice, drive via verona, lake garda, to Tuscany, then head northwards via the CT, ending up in Milan for your train home.

don't even think of hiring a car in one country and returning it in another if you want to save money as the one-way fees will be ruinous.

happy planning,

regards, ann

bilboburgler

Flying into Stansted (london) is pretty close to London just not seen as Cross continent as heathrow and gatwick, Luton further out

ira

Hi Bob,

>Our girls have never been to Europe and really want to see Italy (especially Rome and Venice), Paris and London so we are trying to see quite a bit in <b>18 days</b>. On top of that I want to check out the Swiss Alps. We have the plane tickets already and are arriving in and departing from Zurich.<

You are kidding, aren't you?

Five major cities in 18 days. That takes care of a run through Paris, Venice and Rome.

Please rethink this expedition.

Bob2010

After hearing all of your suggestions and comments, I have dropped England from the itinerary. Here is a revision of the trip, please let me know what you think.

18 days to cover Switzerland, Italy, and France.

Day 1 - Fly into Zurich arrive early, rent a car and drive to Luzern and stay there for 3 days and take day trips around the area.

Day 2 - Switzerland
Day 3 - Switzerland
Day 4 - Drive from Switzerland to Venice, Stay 2 nights
Day 5 - Venice
Day 6 - Venice
Day 7 - Drive to Tuscany area and find one place to stay for 4 nights
Day 8 - Tuscany
Day 9 - Tuscany
Day 10 - Tuscany
Day 11 - Tuscany
Day 12 Drive to Rome find a place outside of Rome, take the train into town and explore Rome for 2 days, hitting the highlights.
Day 13 - Rome
Day 14 - Rome
Day 15 - Drive from Rome to Geneva and return the rental car and take the train to Paris, spend 2 days in Paris
Day 16 - Paris
Day 17 _ Paris
Day 18 Train from Paris to Zurich to fly out the next morning.
Day 19 Fly home

Thanks for all of your tips so far. It's been a big help.

Iowa_Redhead

Why return to Zurich? Why not just fly home from Paris?

Also, just a quick google directions search says that the drive from Rome to Geneva Switzerland is about 8 1/2 hours. Is the only reason to do this to return the car to the same country you started in?