My husband and I, with our two kids (ages 14 and 11), will be in Vienna next summer for six days. We plan on taking an extra week before that to visit another European city or two. Our questions are: Will one week give us enough time to see two other cities/areas, or should we focus on just one? If so, should we go to England, France, Ireland, or... Then, what airport should we fly into and how to travel on to Vienna? We would prefer not to deal with car rentals, unless unavoidable. What countryside sites might be good to see on the way to Vienna? <BR>We want to see the classic Europe, but dont want to overschedule ourselves. Any suggestions?

Hello Maureen, The whole thing is pretty personal but if I were you I would go to Paris for one week. <BR>Because Paris is so unique ...however if you wish to seen a beautiful city near Vienna and just take a short train ride go to Prague which is beautiful and so close to Vienna, which by the way is also a beautiful city. Prague of course is less expensive than Vienna. <BR>I have travel with my children many times to Europe and always had the good sense of avoiding very short stays, my moto is : " We 'll see next year what we have no time to see now". <BR>Good luck and great educationfor the kids. ... <BR>

With such a short time, I would go to Prague. (It is about 4-hour train ride from Vienna). You could spend 3 days there & then I would go to Berlin (about 4 1/2-hour train ride from Prague). Check out the German rail site at http://bahn.hafas.de You can get schedule, fares, stops, etc. If you need accommodations in Prague, email AVE at [email protected] The guidebooks said they had better quality listings. We gave them our requirements & they found a great place. See the Charles Bridge at night. Prague was not damaged in WWII & the architecture is beautiful. Berlin would be a great history lesson for your children. For 20th century history, there is no place like Berlin. The Checkpoint Charlie Museum, a museum with a complete ancient ruin, Templehof Airfield, Olympic Stadium where Jesse Owens ran, etc. The arts are great in both places. The food is very good. The people are friendly & many speak English. Best of all, Prague & Berlin are relatively inexpensive.

This is a huge decision that only you can make, especially considering what your kids find interesting and/or tolerable. Paris is a wonderful destination if you are "city" minded. The public transportation is excellent - no one drives. Where you go and how long you stay depends on whether you like to blitz around or take the leisurely approach. Since it's so close, you may wish to consider Switzerland, which is full of charming and unique small cities and towns. You can easily get from place to place by train. The stations are always in the center of town and most of the sights and attractions within walking distance. On the other hand, London (with perhaps a few day trips to the countryside) might be a good choice to avoid any language barriers. The sites and attractions in the cities may be more appealing to your kids. You may want to head to your local bookstore and peruse some tour guide and/or photo essays and see what most appeals to you.

Thanks for your responses. We appreciate getting the point-of-view of people who have European experience. It seems most people we have talked to have suggested Paris for our other stop. So, if we do that, can we tour the wine country and take a train to Vienna? Then, from Vienna, what day trips are worthwhile? The idea of Prague and Berlin is also an option we will consider. Thanks for your help! Any further suggestions from anyone?? <BR>

Budapest is even closer than Prague (3 hr drive-I admit I like the driving experience)although it easier to "see" Prague in a shorter timeframe since Budapest is a city (2MM+) where Prague is considerably smaller (Both have good public transport). Depending on your schedule you could see Lake Balaton during the summer (on the way) or go north of Budapest to the artisan village Szentendre or the other Danube villages (Visegrad, etc). And both cities are very affordable compared to Paris. Salzburg is also I think a 3-hr train ride away and easy to see as well.

<BR>Hi Maureen: We, too, are planning our first trip to Europe for June, 1999. We are a family of 5, and this will partly be for our daughter's high school graduation. I will give you our itinerary, and you will have something to compare yours with. This trip has been in the planning for a year now. I have read extensively and read everything on these boards. We will fly into London and stay for 5 nites, take the Chunnel train to Paris for 3 nites, take the nite train to Rome for 5 nites, take the train to Florence for 2 nites, by train to Venice for 2 nites, train to <BR>Salzburg for 3 nites, train to Vienna for 3 nites, and fly home from there. Of course we will have to go back again to see lots of other things. Where are you staying in Vienna? The people on this board are very good at giving you advice, and they have been very helpful to me. I wanted to see Switzerland this trip, but the history in Austria won hands down, as our daughter has already studied Western Civ in a college class, and it really appealed to her. Kathy <BR>

I think you should spend a little time refocusing on your time, personal considerations, experience, etc. as I think you are getting a little off-the-track and unrealistic. I don't mean to be insulting, but it appears you are a rather inexperienced traveler. As such, I don't think Paris makes any particular sense in combination with Vienna (it appears other people just like Paris, that's all, there is no other particular reason that is a good combo), especially for someone who has not traveled a lot and (I'm assuming) does not know French. From there, you got into the wine country which is now a completely different type of vacation, a distance from Paris or any major city, and one you cannot do very well without renting a car and spending a lot of time, which you don't want to do. I don't think touring wineries would be that interesting for children, either. You will take up an entire day by train getting from Paris to Vienna (a very, very LONG day) which makes no sense with your limited time. I would suggest you focus on Austria alone, maybe in combination with Switzerland if that interests you, Germany or Eastern Europe as others have suggested (Budapest & Prague). In Austria, you could see Salzburg, maybe Innsbruck. If you really want a different area, I would suggest London rather than Paris for a couple reasons--first, there is lots to do in London alone, good for kids; second, it will be easiler to acclimate to Europe due to no language problems for an inexperienced traveler; third, London is a good gateway city to Europe and you can often find great airfare deals going through London, so I think you might be able to get a RT US-London (you don't really say where you're from, I'm assuming US from your language), and then tack on a within-Europe RTfare London-Vienna for a fairly reasonable price. I think British Airways often has good deals like this. <BR>

I see 2 different ways to go with this. Traveling by train will definitely take some time and you need to plan for that. So if that's the way you will travel, then you want to string your destinations on so that you end up in Vienna. A nice itinerary there might start in Munich, spend a day or two, maybe Innsbruck, Salzburg and then on to Vienna. If you're worried about taking time, Munich to Salzburg to Vienna is very doable in a week without being rushed. You might add in quick stop in Switzerland (or perhaps Liectenstein) fr a day, but then you might want to forget about Innsbruck if you're worried about time. Another place in Austria I'd really like to visit is Villach. I drove through there on a trip a few years ago on the way from Vienna to Venice but we didn't do more than stop to eat. <BR> <BR>The other idea would be to take one, and only one other more distant city. The suggestion about Brit Air and flying is a good one. Intercountry air in Europe is starting to come into its own. Small airlines are also popping up that do this. I recently found it was cheaper to fly London to Glasgow than take a train. (and the difference in travel time ..... forget it) I liked one of the suggestions you gave - Ireland. London would be very good for a family, but so is Ireland. It's very easy to get a tour in Ireland, but make sure they'll take the kids - a lot don't. Otherwise London offers many day trips where you wouldn't need to rent a car, and lots for the kids to do. They'll love Windsor castle and nearby Lego Land. Take them to the Cutty Sark in Greenwich, or you can even day trip as far as Plymouth. York is very nice, see Bath and Stonehenge (or better Avebury) on the way.

My husband and I are planning a trip to Europe in about 18-24 months. I wanted to go to Ireland, England and Scotland. We will return someday for some othe cities. Do you think we should go Ireland, Scotland, England or the other way around? Ireland is my husband's forefather's homeland. I feel like we will want to spend a great deal here in the countryside. I am excited but I want to hear from experienced travelers before making decisions. Thank you.

Thanks again for the responses. Because our daughter will be travelling to London this Spring, we are thinking we will go elsewhere for her sake when we all visit Europe together. Paris has always been attractive to me, so it has naturally been top on our list, plus its relative proximity to Vienna (and I do speak French, though I will have to refresh my skills!). <BR> Thanks, Kathy, for sending your itinerary. It may give us some ideas. <BR> We have a flexible schedule, so can tack time on at the beginning or end of our trip. In Vienna, my husband's conference will put us up at a very elegant old hotel within the city, so I am not concerned about finding housing for Vienna, but will for other destinations we choose. <BR> We are thinking we want to see two cities and some surrounding countryside, which is why I mentioned the wine country- not to tour wineries per se, but because we like the topography of Napa, for instance. <BR> So, thanks for the thoughts. Any other ideas will be appreciated. <BR>

Maureen---I'm goint to "throw a monkey-wrench in the works" and say that in my humble opinion, you should go from Vienna to Germany, specifically to the Bavarian Region. Why?....Vienna is a very beautiful city, filled with museums, architecture and history. Paris (without wanting to take away anything from a truly magical city), is more of the same scaled up about ten times, but, don't misss the point, more of the same. <BR>This is a critical factor when taking into consideration your travelling companions; a 14 and 11 y/o kids). Bavaria has amazing castles and towns, as well as breathtaking scenery conducive to familiy activities such as hiking, picnics, lakes, etc... The Romantic Road with its "gingerbread" towns would be a memorable experience for an 11 y/o (...for anybody really!). <BR>Is very easy to drive around and full of options.

Maureen, I totally agree with Christina <BR>and Maira. Paris makes no sense in this itinerary. The obvious answer for <BR>you is to fly into Munich, head down to <BR>the castle country 2 hours south--stay <BR>at Garmisch or Fussen---, then over to <BR>Salzburg, then to Hallstatt and end up <BR>at Vienna. Do not be leery of the car. <BR>It is as easy to drive here as it is in <BR>Colorado, and the rental prices in Germany are super. Trains for 4 will not be cheap and can be a hassle with <BR>the bags. Europe is not about big cities---see the best of Tyrolean beauty and culture and enjoy.

Maureen, <BR>Maira and Bob the Navigator are both right on! Bob's itinerary is perfect for six days near Vienna. I love Paris, but six days is definetly not enough time to enjoy both Paris and Vienna, they're simply physically too far apart. Mad King Ludwig's castles are much closer to Vienna, you and your kids will never forget them. <BR> <BR>Kathy, <BR>Your itinerary looks super. However, I would prefer staying longer in Paris than in London. Both are great, but I think you can do justice to London in 3 or 4 days. Paris on the other hand can take as many days as you can possibly give it. The 5 days in Rome is perfect, I found this city to be a surprising delight on a recent trip. Lastly I would recommend spending 3 days in Venice and 2 days in Salzburg. In my opinion, Venice is much more interesting than Salzburg. The rest of your itinerary looks good. Have a fantastic trip.

Thanks for the responses and advice (except for Christina's rather nasty attitude, everyone has been very helpful). <BR> I am beginning to agree re: Paris. But since we live in the US Rockies, we are not too interested in spending a lot of time in Swiss and Austrian Alps, though I am sure they are beautiful and different than our mountains. But we have seen a lot of mountain towns throughout the states in our quest for snow. <BR> Does earlier advice about traveling RT US-London make sense, with a RT London-Vienna in between? Even though our daughter will have spent a week in London, I am beginning to think that should not stop us from visiting there since there is so much to do there and it seems like it could be more family-oriented than some places. <BR> From London, maybe some forays into Wales, Ireland, or Scotland, assuming we have 7-9 days. Is this too ambitious? <BR> I just dont think we want to restrict our European experience to the eastern sector. And we may not be able to return for a few years. Suggestions??

Rick Steves in one of his books suggests that once you have chosen your destinations, allot three days per city. <BR> <BR>I did not take it and suffered from the consequences. I usually travel alone and have no experience travelling with two teen-age boys, who presumably have short attention spans and are easily bored. No disrespect, Maureen, but that's the way most of Generation Y is. If your boys are different, more power to you. <BR> <BR>I think that a route like Munich- Salzberg-Weinn is a winner and works with the efficiency of a swiss clock.If you do not have a direct flight into Munich, many US cities don't, fly into Frankfurt,collect your bags, go down two levels and get on the train to Heidelberg. It is a small university town with a lot of young people and a story book atmosphere. It will be a terrific intro to Europe for your kids (I presume they have not been there before). <BR> <BR>I have been to Munich many times and in the fall of 98, I meticulously planned an iter. along the same route. The route I planned on was Munich-Garmisch- Reutte-Innsbruck-Krimml-Zell am See- Hallstatt-Salzburg-Weinn. The weather gods had different plans for me. <BR>I ended up this way: Munich- Innsbruck- Reutte-Krimml-Zell-Hallstatt. At Hallstatt, I tossed my iter out the window (metaphorically speaking) because there was no point in going on. <BR> <BR>Recapping, Munich-Innsbruck-Salzburg, a day trip to Hallstatt, and onto Weinn. <BR>It is totally train worthy. <BR> <BR>This is one man's opinion. No disrespect for people who have an intense liking for other cities in europa. No animals were sacrificed during the writing of this post. <BR>Peace

<BR> <BR>I shall not join the group of people who have advised on where to go. What I shall do is mention that from Vienna it takes a single night to reach Paris, Berlin, the Rhineland near Koblenz, Zurich, Venice, Florence, Rome, Berlin, Warsaw, Belgrade, or (and this is true) Transylvania. If you book four couchettes (which are berths, with bedding) your fares for all four of you one-way in dollars are Paris 700, Rhineland 500, and Transylvania (including visa cost) 500. There may be further reducations for travel as a family group: the International desks in the travel centres in Paris Charles de Gaulle, Amsterdam Schipol, Vienna West and Vienna South railway stations can tell you. <BR> <BR>Jeff was troubled by the five hour run from London to Glasgow. For 25 pounds more he could have saved a hotel bill, gone to bed in London, and had his morning coffee in bed in Glasgow. <BR> <BR>If you do opt for planes between Vienna and London you'll find budget prices on http://www.cheapflights.co.uk. The Rhineland can offer you some splendid vertiginous vinyards, topped by castles, and even (from the Mosel) a sweet wine, little stronger than cider, that might take the fancy of your children. But just two hours by train from Vienna is the Wachau, the area around Melk and Krems, with summer boats along the river, and vinyards and castles. <BR> <BR>To fit in Vienna, another city, and wine country you have choices. <BR>Perhaps fly to Paris, take the Orient Excpress from Paris Est at 1749, up in the buffet car, arrive Vienna West 0835. Leave Vienna West 0820 (not Sundays), breakfast on the train, change at St Polten 0902 to 0905, arrive Krems about 0955. Find your hotel, take boats and local trains. Leave Krems 2015 (not Saturdays), arrive St Polten about 2100, leave by Orient Express 2113, breakfast in the buffet car, arrive Paris 1022. <BR> <BR>Or, fly to Amsterdam Schipol, train to Amsterdam Central, buy a picnic breakfast and sup in Amsterdam (a Reijstafel ?), leave Amsterdam Central by the Donauwalzer at 1925, arrive Vienna West 0945. Then leave Vienna West at 2045 by City Night Line Donau Kurier Express, a hotel train with rstaurant car and showers, arrive Koblenz 0737, breakfast, drop back south by local train or even boat to somewhere you like (Boppard, St Goar, Bacharach, Bingen ?). Later, leave Koblenz at 0728 and arrive in Ansterdam Central at 1237, or take later trains, with restaurant cars and a change in Cologne, and arrive in Amsterdam Central later. <BR> <BR>As you see, you can cover huge distances by night train, but can also potter about in country areas on small local trains. Car hire is needless. <BR> <BR>I have on disc a note on night trains in Europe that I can copy to you if you ask. And of course please write on any point. If you do so, could you please say where you are ? <BR> <BR>Welcome to Europe <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR>