sandicran

I am planning a trip to Europe with my daughter as a graduation present for her. She just wants me to plan everything and she'll go along. We will be taking a train to Venice on the 28th of December and spending one night there. From there I'm thinking we can go to Florence (7 days) then Tuscany/Umbria (4 days), Sorrento (2 days) and then end up in Rome. I was thinking the possibility of a few day trips from Rome but probably not after reading Franco's advice.

My concerns are as follows:

I really prefer to not rent a car if I can get away with it. I can't drive a manual, I'm not the best driver to begin with and my daughter is only 21 so she wouldn't be able to drive. And how can we do wine tastings if we are driving!

In Tuscany/Umbria I would like to see Pisa, Sienna, Greve in Chianti, Orvieto, Civita de Bangnoregio and Montepulciano. Do you need a car to easily access these places or can you get there by train? Would it be better to just make these visit day trips

Also in Sorrento we will go to Pompeii and possibly Herculaneum but is it doing the same thing twice, just in a diffreent location? Would you suggest a guide for either?

Last question, is the Italy pass good for consecutive days for travel?

Thank you so much for your help! I look forward to hearing from you!

Peter_S_Aus

I would not bother with Venice for just a single night - see if you can squeeze at least two nights into your schedule.

It so depends what your intersts are, though.

Four years ago, we did:
Venice - 6 nights
Verona - 2 nights
Como - 2 nights (bad idea at that time of year)
Florence - 4 nights
Assisi - 3 nights
Rome - 4 nights.

We booked as we went, except for Venice and Verona which were booked before we left Australia, and used trains all the time. The Italian rail system is good, but maybe not that easy if you want to get to the smaller hill towns.

lovelyhello

sandicran, Florence is in Tuscany, so you may stay 4days in Florence (from Venice without car, better travel by train), them move in a tuscan village and explore by car the tuscan countryyard.

jamikins

Do your 20 days include travel days? So you have:

Day 1 - Travel to Venice (from where - will jet lag be an issue?)
Day 2 - Travel to Florence
Day 4 - Florence
Day 5 - Florence
Day 6 - Florence
Day 7 - Florence
Day 8 - Florence
Day 9 - Florence
Day 10 - Florence - Tuscany/Umbria
Day 11 - Tuscany/Umbria
Day 12 - Tuscany/Umbria
Day 13 - Tuscany/Umbria
Day 14 - Tuscany/Umbria - Sorrento
Day 15 - Sorrento
day 16 - Sorrento
Day 17 - Sorrento - Rome
Day 18 - Rome
Day 19 - Rome
Day 20 - Rome - home

Unless you are big renaissance art fans I think this is scewed too much to Florence. I would say maybe 3-4 days in Florence, with a day trip to Pisa and at least another day to Venice and a few days to Rome. If you dont want to add a day or two to Venice I would drop it as its really not worth it for 1 night.

Pisa is easy to get to by train from Florence, and Siena is easiest from Florence by bus so maybe add a day to Florence for that and take it away from the Tuscnay part.

I think Greve is on the train line from Florence as well, and Orvieto is definitely on the line between Florence and Rome so might make a good base in Tuscany. I think to get to Civita de Bangnoregio and Montepulciano you will need a car.

You will need to take the train into Rome and then onto Naples I believe to get to Sorrento.

Hope this helps!

Lifeman

I agree that 1 night in Venice is nowhere near enough, but if you want to skim over it, then OK, but at least two nights is still skimming. You say that you will be taking a train to Venice, but from where? Have you booked in and out of Rome by air? Get the open jaw option and fly into Venice and back from Rome or Naples.

Here's my suggestions for your trip, bearing mind that this would be MY trip and may not be to your taste:

Venice 3 nights
Lake Garda 2 nights (stay in Sirmione)
Florence 4 nights for Tuscany
Puglia 3 nights
Sorrento 4 nights ( to include Pompeii, Herculaneum, Amalfi coast)
Rome 3/4 nights depending on return date.

If you don't want to drive, then you need to plan with www.trenitalia.it

I'd love a trip like this, if I had the time, I'm very envious!

Lifeman

Almost forgot, I'd certainly do both Pompeii and Herculaneum. Pompeii is much bigger and takes a lot longer, whilst Herculaneum is much more compact, better preserved and just as interesting.

kybourbon

Is your flight into Venice and out of Rome or have you even booked flights yet?

>>>I think Greve is on the train line from Florence as well,<<<

Greve is not on a train line.

jamikins

Oops, my mistake, thanks kybourbon!

mamcalice

Greve is not on the train line but is easily reached by bus from Florence. Pisa and Siena are easy train rides. I think if I were going the end of December, I would skip Sorrento and perhaps visit Pompeii and Herculaneum as a day trip from Rome. I might also skip Lake Garda. My ideal trip (not yours, necessarily) at that time of year would be:

Venice - 3 days
Florence - 7 days with day trips to the Tuscan countryside.
Orvieto (and perhaps another city in Umbria such as Assisi) - 4 days
Rome - 6 days with day trips to Pompeii and Herculaneum.

Remember, at this time of year the days will be very short so day trips will have only 8 or 9 ours of daylight. Also, Sorrento and the Amalfi Coast have a good chance to be very chilly and rainy. If you decide to stay in Sorrento anyway, take a day each from Florence and Rome.

I would definitely suggest a guide for Pompeii and Herculaneum. We were able to get a guide at the ticket office in Pompeii. He led a group of 10 on a 3 hour tour and really contributed to our understanding of the site. After the guided walk, we were able to walk around on our own to see things that weren't covered on the tour.

I hope you and your daughter have a lovely trip.

ggreen

You definitely can do the southern bit of your trip by public transportation. While I love the Amalfi Coast, I think in the winter it's not worth it to add days there and take away from elsewhere (per Lifeman's suggestion). Instead, I think the idea of a day trip from Rome could work. While it's not a long trip, Sorrento is farther south than either of the historic sites. When I was there this past spring, we based in Sorrento and took day trips to Herculaneum and Naples. It ended up feeling like a lot of time spent commuting! (That said, you will want to try and get to Pompeii the earlier in the day the better: the crowds certainly build as the day progresses!)

In addition, I would suggest picking one of the two ancient sites to see on this trip - and I'd lean towards seeing Pompeii rather than Herculaneum. Lifeman accurately describes their differences, and Herculaneum is well worth seeing. However, as far as accessibility, Pompeii wins hands-down: one of the entrances is immediately adjacent to the train station. (Make sure you take the train to "Pompeii Scavi" not to the Pompei city center - note the different spellings.) For Herculaneum, you exit the train at the modern Erculano, then hop a shared van for hire to the site. The van driver sets a time for the entire group to be back at the parking lot, then returns you to the train. The van is 10 euro pp; you purchase the ticket from an office that is not particularly well marked at one end of the parking lot.

How comfortable are you with public transportation? IMO, the Circumvesuviana to/from Sorrento and the sites in between is a reliable service, but a bit gritty. Additionally, it is first and foremost a commuter train, so there's not a lot of accommodation for large luggage.

Lastly, I'm sure you've heard it before - but if you can accommodate a trip to the Archeological Museum in Naples into your plans, it really enriches/supplements what you'll see in Pompeii and Herculaneum, as well as Ancient Rome...

sandicran

Thank you all for your quick response! I appreciate all your help and suggestions.

Our 20 days in Italy are the last part of a larger trip. We will be in Europe for a total of 30 nights. The first part of our trip starts in Paris and then we travel to Salzburg for Christmas and then 2 days in Switzerland, probably Lucerne, and then a train to Venice. Instead of a day trip to Venice which is what I would have done otherwise, I figured we would see it before we head down to Florence. We fly out of Rome and that day is not included in the 20 days.

I tried going through a travel agent but she couldn't accept that I have a budget and didn't want to spend it all on hotel rooms. Since it's such a long trip the budget is definately an issue.

Peter_S_Aus
I would love to be able to fly by the seat of my pants and not have everything planned out in advance. That's a good idea and I'm going to think about that. I know my daughter would love it!

lovelyhello
I wanted to avoid the car but it looks like I might not be able to do that.

jamikins
Thank you, yes it helped. It helped seeing it written out like that. I was going to use the first few days in Florence as "resting days" due to the first part of the trip. We are not big renaissance art fans but I LOVE Florence.

Lifeman
I do have my flight booked. We fly into Paris on the 18th and fly from Rome on the 17th. I've had it booked since July so you think I'd have made more plans by now! Your assessment of Pompeii and Herculaneum are just what I thought it would be. The reason I thought we could see Herculaneum is because we have visited the Getty Villa and thought it would be nice to see where the original came from.

kybourbon
I know you can get to Greve from Florence via bus. But I don't know where else you can get to from there.

mamcalice
My daughter is so excited. She is just way too busy with studies to even think about the details of the trip! I think I would definately prefer a guide. Thank you for the weather advice. I don't mind being cold but cold and wet I could do without!

ggreen
Your detailed information about the train stops in Pompeii and Herculaneum are appreciated. Maybe we'll stay in Naples for one or two nights and go to Pompeii from there. The reason I thought to stay in Sorrento is to avoid all the day trips.

I'm pretty comfortable with the public transportation. That's why I thought I could get away with renting a car.

It looks like that I will have to bite the bullet and rent one anyway, at least for the hill towns.

What would be the best way to do this? Should I rent it from Florence and return it to Rome? Has anyone driven in Italy? What was it like?

Lastly, does anyone know if the Italy train pass is for consecutive days of travel? If I'm going to get a car I probably won't need as many days.

Thank you all again for all your help and advice.

kfusto

"Lastly, does anyone know if the Italy train pass is for consecutive days of travel?"

The Italy Flexi Pass is good for a specific number of days within a specified period of time. Consecutive travel days are not a requirement.

sandicran

Thank you kfusto!

charnees

I'm going to say that you should not bother renting a car for this trip. There's all kinds of fascinating places to see without driving to Tuscany's less-accessible hill towns. They all sound lovely, I know, and they are, but there's only so many of them you can see. You don't want to have the "If it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium" syndrome. Or "Did we see that town? What did it look like?" when you get home. Concentrate on the ones you can see by train or bus, at least this first time around.

I would definitely plan on at least 4 nights in a place, staying in an apartment (cheaper and more room to relax in). Otherwise you are wasting too much time moving. The rule of thumb is you lose half a day each time. (I think it's more like a full day.) You have to pack, check out, get to the train station, wait for the train, ride the train, find your way to your new apartment, unpack, and get your bearings.

Try 4 nights in Venice, with train excursions to a nearby town or two. Then 4 nights in Florence, with a day trip or two. Then 4 nights in Naples or Amalfi Coast seeing Pompeii and/or Herculaneum (called Ercolano in Italian), then 4 nights in Rome. There's so much to see in Rome you will barely have time to skim the surface with 4 nights. Since you already booked your flights, it's too late to switch Rome and AC and fly out of Naples.

At least that way you will be able to remember the places you saw, and you won't be so exhausted when you drag yourself onto the plane in Rome.