St. Petersburg & Moscow--Difficult? Dangerous?
Oct 26th, 2006, 12:33 PM
#21
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I travel to Moscow 2 to 3 times a year for work. I am a woman, and am often alone. I feel safer in Moscow and St. Petersburg, even late at night, even on the subway, than I do in Minneapolis, my home town. Of course, I avoid small dark areas where no one is around. I do speak Russian, but I send people to Russia frequently, and depending on their level of independence and desire, they are able to get around on their own. Usually there is someone, somewhere that can help with a bit, or a lot, of English skills.
I love Moscow! So I hope you will enjoy it too.
The best thing to do is learn Cyrillic (Everyone who has studied Russian will tell you that if the language was as easy as the alphabet, they'd be thrilled) There are excellent books and online tools that will help you learn to read Cyrillic.
I love Moscow! So I hope you will enjoy it too.
The best thing to do is learn Cyrillic (Everyone who has studied Russian will tell you that if the language was as easy as the alphabet, they'd be thrilled) There are excellent books and online tools that will help you learn to read Cyrillic.
Oct 26th, 2006, 06:58 PM
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Ciao - many years ago we had some people visit us in New Orleans, but they left after one day saying they didn't see the appeal of the city because it (mainly the French Quarter) was "just a bunch of old buildings." And since the line for beignets at Cafe du Monde was too long, they found a nice food counter at Woolworths and had breakfast there! I can only imagine what they said to their neighbors upon their return!
(Sorry for the slight diversion from the main topic!)
(Sorry for the slight diversion from the main topic!)
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:57 AM
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Sorry, S, haven't had time to post about Prague, or Turkey or Venice, but we did have a great time, so much so we're arranging for a return to Turkey next fall, adding Cappadocia and Trabzon this time. Fun to link different place, especially when air arrangements are so easy, as they were. I must say Prague is a little jewel, with its hills and cobble stone, not to mention the very reasonable prices for concerts. I hope to post sometime later, but am a bit busy now. Hope BA was satisfying ... have always enjoyed that very European city. Take care, be happy and ciao. Leone
Nov 18th, 2006, 12:17 PM
#26
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I believe that the responses to this thread, which I posted about two months ago, represent the best and, sorry to say, worst sides of this site. Thanks to the responses of a number of people, my wife and I have been able to make what we think is an informed judgement about traveling in Russia. We've decide that we'll travel independtly to St. Petersburg for a week and then spend a second week in Vienna, a city that we know well. This will give us a chance to see how comfortable we are navigating the language, existing tourist infrastructure, etc. If we enjoy it, we'll return in the future. Many thanks to kopp, 321go, nytraveler, Garfield, SusanEva, katya_NY, and others who shared their experiences and, what's more, took the time and thought to describe the differences in ease, infrasture, etc. in traveling in Russia vs. say Prague or Budapest. The folks who talked about the importance of knowing the alphabet if not the language were especially helpful, since my wife remembers the alphabet from a long-ago Russian course but not the language. (Alas, I took a year of classical Greek and can't even decipher the letters on fraternity houses.)
Fair warning, I'll be posting a lot of questions about St. Petersburg over the next few months, as well as checking out earlier posts by katya, Mark Miller and others. However, I won't be using this thread because CiaoLeone, WallyKringen, and Grcxx3 have poisoned the well by condescending posts and vitriolic words like "nitwit," "scare mongering," and "such a silly conversation." This sort of response is, obviously, not helpful, strains the civility of an online community that enjoys foreign travel, and intimidates new posters. I'm reasonably thick skinned, and when the responses to the original email ended after a few days I thought it best to let into Fodors limbo. However, when I saw that it had risen to the top today, I decided that it was time to respond, both to thank those who were helpful and to suggest that we all try to do the same.
Fair warning, I'll be posting a lot of questions about St. Petersburg over the next few months, as well as checking out earlier posts by katya, Mark Miller and others. However, I won't be using this thread because CiaoLeone, WallyKringen, and Grcxx3 have poisoned the well by condescending posts and vitriolic words like "nitwit," "scare mongering," and "such a silly conversation." This sort of response is, obviously, not helpful, strains the civility of an online community that enjoys foreign travel, and intimidates new posters. I'm reasonably thick skinned, and when the responses to the original email ended after a few days I thought it best to let into Fodors limbo. However, when I saw that it had risen to the top today, I decided that it was time to respond, both to thank those who were helpful and to suggest that we all try to do the same.
Nov 18th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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For those of us definitely travelling to Moscow and St. Petersburg in the near future, and not put off by unfounded rumors, perhaps your initial posting was the irresponsible one that elicited appropriate negatives. Afterall, you were ready to bail after a single opinion about safety. You would have been wiser to investigate. Once agin, we are going, and we didn't appreciate your postings. If we called them silly, them perhaps they were. In any event, it is nice you're going ahead with part, and we wish you well.
Nov 18th, 2006, 01:09 PM
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Hi Joe 18: since I didn't get a chance to post the first time around, and I don't know if you're still deciding, I thought I'd put in my 2 cents.
I found both Moscow and the suburbs of St. Petes to be very pleasant, although I have to say, I was with a tour group from a cruise line, and we spent very limited time in these places. Even with our limited time, I yearn to go back, particularly to St. Petersburg the city, so that must be saying something.
I found the public transportation system in Moscow to be very easy to use, once you've gotten yourself a map and can orientate yourself to where you need to go. If you only speak English, it will be a little more difficult to get around and get directions than if you were in Western Europe, but I didn't find it to be too much the case when we were allowed to roam free for an hour.
In St. Petes, we circumvented the big city to see the beautiful palaces in the outskirts: Tsarskoe Selo (aka: Catherine's Palace) and Peterhof (with its famed gilded fountains). Worth seeing if you're in St. Petes for some time.
Not sure how you're getting from St. Petes to Moscow (or vice versa), but we flew, and I can tell you about our experience.
The airport experience is a little different. Security is the same, although you go through security twice at the St. Pete's airport. Don't expect swanky duty free shops, it's very utilitarian. An attendant will come and herd everyone onto a shuttle bus when your flight time arrives, and you get to walk onto the plane like they did in the 1950s movies. Very chic. Once you're on the plane, they serve you hot coffee or tea, and a chocolate snack bar. Yum. Although by the time you're served your snack, it's time for them to collect your service items.
There's an ATM machine that dispenses both US Dollars and Russian Rubles just before you walk completely out of the airport to grab transportation. Very convenient.
Same experience on the return flight. Again, no glamorous shops in the Moscow airport, just one tiny duty free shop hidden away in a left corner. Security was a bit more stringent, you had to open your passport with your plane ticket for them to readily see. Don't expect these people to smile. You would then go straight ahead to get your seat assignment.
A strange experience for me were the plane seats in Russia. The ones we were on fell forward rather easily.
Other than that, a rather uneventful flight.
And that's my 2 cents.
I found both Moscow and the suburbs of St. Petes to be very pleasant, although I have to say, I was with a tour group from a cruise line, and we spent very limited time in these places. Even with our limited time, I yearn to go back, particularly to St. Petersburg the city, so that must be saying something.
I found the public transportation system in Moscow to be very easy to use, once you've gotten yourself a map and can orientate yourself to where you need to go. If you only speak English, it will be a little more difficult to get around and get directions than if you were in Western Europe, but I didn't find it to be too much the case when we were allowed to roam free for an hour.
In St. Petes, we circumvented the big city to see the beautiful palaces in the outskirts: Tsarskoe Selo (aka: Catherine's Palace) and Peterhof (with its famed gilded fountains). Worth seeing if you're in St. Petes for some time.
Not sure how you're getting from St. Petes to Moscow (or vice versa), but we flew, and I can tell you about our experience.
The airport experience is a little different. Security is the same, although you go through security twice at the St. Pete's airport. Don't expect swanky duty free shops, it's very utilitarian. An attendant will come and herd everyone onto a shuttle bus when your flight time arrives, and you get to walk onto the plane like they did in the 1950s movies. Very chic. Once you're on the plane, they serve you hot coffee or tea, and a chocolate snack bar. Yum. Although by the time you're served your snack, it's time for them to collect your service items.
There's an ATM machine that dispenses both US Dollars and Russian Rubles just before you walk completely out of the airport to grab transportation. Very convenient.
Same experience on the return flight. Again, no glamorous shops in the Moscow airport, just one tiny duty free shop hidden away in a left corner. Security was a bit more stringent, you had to open your passport with your plane ticket for them to readily see. Don't expect these people to smile. You would then go straight ahead to get your seat assignment.
A strange experience for me were the plane seats in Russia. The ones we were on fell forward rather easily.
Other than that, a rather uneventful flight.
And that's my 2 cents.
Nov 18th, 2006, 01:23 PM
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Joe18: just read your post. I guess I went away too long and you posted while I was still writing. Glad you decided not to cancel your trip.
Glad you find Fodors to be a good resource. Anyway, to each his/her own re: travels to Russia. I liked it, as sanitized as my cruise tour was, and I'd go on my own one day.
I did love the white nights of St. Petersburg...it was an awesome experience.
Glad you find Fodors to be a good resource. Anyway, to each his/her own re: travels to Russia. I liked it, as sanitized as my cruise tour was, and I'd go on my own one day.
I did love the white nights of St. Petersburg...it was an awesome experience.
Nov 18th, 2006, 02:14 PM
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Hi Joe18: I am very glad you have decided to go ahead with your trip. It sounds like a good balance to strike- a familiar and a new place.
It is probably worth mentioning that most young Russians have a working knowledge of either English, French or German (these are the most popular languages to study in school). So the chances of finding someone (even in the service industry) conversant in English or French is pretty good.
We have just begun planning our trip for next fall to bring students to Russia, and I get almost giddy with excitement at the thought of being able to show my students Russia's splendor. They have heard about it from me for years- now they can experience it first hand!
Let me know if you have any questions- I will try my best to answer!
It is probably worth mentioning that most young Russians have a working knowledge of either English, French or German (these are the most popular languages to study in school). So the chances of finding someone (even in the service industry) conversant in English or French is pretty good.
We have just begun planning our trip for next fall to bring students to Russia, and I get almost giddy with excitement at the thought of being able to show my students Russia's splendor. They have heard about it from me for years- now they can experience it first hand!
Let me know if you have any questions- I will try my best to answer!
Nov 18th, 2006, 02:43 PM
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Doing Moscow and St. Pete's is one of my dream trips so I love to read the Russia posts. There are three words that can describe why I haven't hopped on a plane to Moscow: difficult, dangerous, and very expensive.
I'm struck by the way Fodor's regulars so readily dismiss people who post anything negative about their favorite destination. The OP stated he was THINKING of cancelling his INDEPENDENT (i.e., not a group tour) trip to Russia. He cited TWO opinions that caused him concern: his brother-in-law's, whose experiences were arguably out of date (most recent was 1992), and that of a travel industry professional, whose experience was more timely (she'd last visited the country last year). The opinion of these two persons with real world experience in the country was that travel to Russia was "difficult and dangerous." What about that is exactly so controversial to the point of calling someone a nitwit or scaremonger?
It's hard to argue that travel to Russia is easy or even relatively easy, especially for independent travelers who don't speak the language. It's not like hopping on a plane to London for a quick 4-day Theater trip. Just making the arrangements for a visa is time consuming and, according to what I've read here and on LP, can prove difficult. Russia is also a country that has undergone tremendous social, political, and economic changes recently. Crime, including terrorism and corruption, are real threats that American travelers should be aware of and take into consideration in planning their itinerary. Even the State Dept., while not warning travelers to avoid Russia, does suggest heightened awareness. To dismiss concerns about travel safety in Russia by comparing Russia's crime situation to that of Los Angeles or New York is ludicrous. Bush may not like what the NY Times prints about him and the Republicans, but when's the last time a crusading reporter died at the hands of a hit squad here in the US? Or a car bomb went off in front of a "western hotel?" Or an entire theater or grammar school was taken hostage by radical muslim fanatics? 9/11 was an aberration; sadly, many other countries, including Russia, are dealing with real, domestic terrorist threats.
It's also my understanding that Russia lacks the tourist infrastructure that makes travel to western Europe so easy, even for those who don't speak the native language. No TICs on every corner, no toursit police, no signs in multiple languages,no public WCs everywhere, etc. And, medical care is sub-standard by all accounts. This may not matter to most when planning trips, but as my family found out last year in England, emergencies do occur on vacation and having access to quality medical care is important.
I wish posters would be a little bit more dispassionate when they voice their opinions, especially when someone asks about serious issues like travel safety and security. People should be encouraged to ask questions before they make important travel decisions, just like the OP did.
Anyone disagree with my sentiments?
I'm struck by the way Fodor's regulars so readily dismiss people who post anything negative about their favorite destination. The OP stated he was THINKING of cancelling his INDEPENDENT (i.e., not a group tour) trip to Russia. He cited TWO opinions that caused him concern: his brother-in-law's, whose experiences were arguably out of date (most recent was 1992), and that of a travel industry professional, whose experience was more timely (she'd last visited the country last year). The opinion of these two persons with real world experience in the country was that travel to Russia was "difficult and dangerous." What about that is exactly so controversial to the point of calling someone a nitwit or scaremonger?
It's hard to argue that travel to Russia is easy or even relatively easy, especially for independent travelers who don't speak the language. It's not like hopping on a plane to London for a quick 4-day Theater trip. Just making the arrangements for a visa is time consuming and, according to what I've read here and on LP, can prove difficult. Russia is also a country that has undergone tremendous social, political, and economic changes recently. Crime, including terrorism and corruption, are real threats that American travelers should be aware of and take into consideration in planning their itinerary. Even the State Dept., while not warning travelers to avoid Russia, does suggest heightened awareness. To dismiss concerns about travel safety in Russia by comparing Russia's crime situation to that of Los Angeles or New York is ludicrous. Bush may not like what the NY Times prints about him and the Republicans, but when's the last time a crusading reporter died at the hands of a hit squad here in the US? Or a car bomb went off in front of a "western hotel?" Or an entire theater or grammar school was taken hostage by radical muslim fanatics? 9/11 was an aberration; sadly, many other countries, including Russia, are dealing with real, domestic terrorist threats.
It's also my understanding that Russia lacks the tourist infrastructure that makes travel to western Europe so easy, even for those who don't speak the native language. No TICs on every corner, no toursit police, no signs in multiple languages,no public WCs everywhere, etc. And, medical care is sub-standard by all accounts. This may not matter to most when planning trips, but as my family found out last year in England, emergencies do occur on vacation and having access to quality medical care is important.
I wish posters would be a little bit more dispassionate when they voice their opinions, especially when someone asks about serious issues like travel safety and security. People should be encouraged to ask questions before they make important travel decisions, just like the OP did.
Anyone disagree with my sentiments?
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:24 PM
#32
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Hey Joe, it was you who quoted your in-law and a TA as doing the scare-mongering, then Eloise who has never even been there did the same. I called them on it, and in your latest post you call that vitriolic and poison? I guess your skin is not as thick as you like to think.
Scaring people off from two well-kown and much-loved (see all the other posts, won't you?) travel destinations, based on hearsay and rumors, is just that - scare-mongering, and it is irresponsible and does nobody a favor.
In the very first reply to your op CiaoLeone suggested an overreaction on your part - how prophetic of her...
Have a safe trip after all.
Scaring people off from two well-kown and much-loved (see all the other posts, won't you?) travel destinations, based on hearsay and rumors, is just that - scare-mongering, and it is irresponsible and does nobody a favor.
In the very first reply to your op CiaoLeone suggested an overreaction on your part - how prophetic of her...
Have a safe trip after all.
Nov 18th, 2006, 05:53 PM
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Hi Joe,
So glad to hear you are going to StP. You and your wife will love it. I'll be looking for your future posts and hope I can help if you have any quesitons.
At the Hermatage, a highlight was the exhibition about the Scythians - especially the display of Scythian gold. When we were there, you needed a special ticket for this particular exhibit and we went with an English speaking tour guide. A work acquaintence helped us with this - we wouldn't have known otherwise.
http://hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_2_6.html
Also, if you like art, please don't miss the Russian Museum at Mikhailovsky Palace. We enjoyed it even more than the Hermitage. In my way of thinking, the Hermitage collection has a somewhat "western european" focus. The Russian Museum exhibits spectacular Russian artists whose work is not to be missed.
http://www.rusmuseum.ru/eng/work/index.html
So glad to hear you are going to StP. You and your wife will love it. I'll be looking for your future posts and hope I can help if you have any quesitons.
At the Hermatage, a highlight was the exhibition about the Scythians - especially the display of Scythian gold. When we were there, you needed a special ticket for this particular exhibit and we went with an English speaking tour guide. A work acquaintence helped us with this - we wouldn't have known otherwise.
http://hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_2_6.html
Also, if you like art, please don't miss the Russian Museum at Mikhailovsky Palace. We enjoyed it even more than the Hermitage. In my way of thinking, the Hermitage collection has a somewhat "western european" focus. The Russian Museum exhibits spectacular Russian artists whose work is not to be missed.
http://www.rusmuseum.ru/eng/work/index.html
Nov 18th, 2006, 06:31 PM
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To Roundtrip: I'm not sure if you intended to direct your question to me, but you got my attention.
If you read what I posted, I mentioned that every traveler should decide what works for them. I personally have never had any issues in my many years of traveling to /living / studying in Russia. I also speak the language.
So no, I would not draw comparisons between traveling the US and visiting Russia. I would mention to anyone who is interested the many months/years of racial unrest in the areas surrounding Paris as a point of comparison.
As a final thought- yes, I would say that visiting Russia without intention to attempt the Russian language would be an unfortunate oversight. It is not as tourist-friendly as some other places I have visited- but it is perfect for my taste. I'm not into sterilized, pre-packaged, one-size-fits-all travel. Give me a little view of real life, please. Maybe I'm just a Doestoevsky junkie at heart.
The Greeks said it best:<i> Whatever is good to know is difficult to learn. </i> Russian is worth the struggle.
If you read what I posted, I mentioned that every traveler should decide what works for them. I personally have never had any issues in my many years of traveling to /living / studying in Russia. I also speak the language.
So no, I would not draw comparisons between traveling the US and visiting Russia. I would mention to anyone who is interested the many months/years of racial unrest in the areas surrounding Paris as a point of comparison.
As a final thought- yes, I would say that visiting Russia without intention to attempt the Russian language would be an unfortunate oversight. It is not as tourist-friendly as some other places I have visited- but it is perfect for my taste. I'm not into sterilized, pre-packaged, one-size-fits-all travel. Give me a little view of real life, please. Maybe I'm just a Doestoevsky junkie at heart.
The Greeks said it best:<i> Whatever is good to know is difficult to learn. </i> Russian is worth the struggle.
Nov 18th, 2006, 07:50 PM
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Last year I had a Russian student in my college accounting class -- she was an economics professor in Russia but came to the U.S. with her family. I asked her why did they come since here she basically is starting over. She said that they checked the newspaper weekly via the internet to see who had died (murdered). They did not want to play the corruption game and are thankful that they came and are living in fear.
Nov 18th, 2006, 08:50 PM
#36
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Joe18 -
I am glad that you and your wife have decided to go to StP - it's supposed to be wonderful and I am looking forward to planning our trip there. And combining it with Vienna is a good move, adding a place where your comfort level is high. I think you'll have a great trip.
And please forgive me for being thin-skinned, but if you look back at my 2 posts, I don't think you could really consider them "condescending" and I never used "vitriolic words like "nitwit," "scare mongering," and "such a silly conversation." If anything, perhaps my sense of humor was mis-interpreted.
From your OP, I got the impression that you were well-travelled individuals who liked going places on their own. But based on 2 people's opinions, you were ready to cancel your whole trip. I have not been to Russia, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but I have many friends who have visited there and we are even considering a move there - so I have done my research.
While Moscow is certainly more difficult than other European cities (mainly because of the language and the less developed tourist infrastructure) - I really don't consider it more dangerous than any other big city (especially in these times). I allowed my 13 year old son to go last May. You have to keep your wits about you, be smart, and be constantly aware of your surroundings - as you should anywhere.
And as for petty crime and corruption - it's everywhere and I just think it would be sad to use those things as the primary reasons not to travel to a place.
Finally, my little annecdote about friends visiting New Orleans was only meant to emphasize the point that 1 person's opinion about a place is just that - ONE person's opinion. Nothing more....
I am glad that you will continue to use this board for your travel plans. I have used Fodors for the past 4 years and the comments and advice I have received from people have been great. I haven't followed all the advice given, but it gave me the information I needed to make choices and decisions about my travels.
Have fun planning your trip!
I am glad that you and your wife have decided to go to StP - it's supposed to be wonderful and I am looking forward to planning our trip there. And combining it with Vienna is a good move, adding a place where your comfort level is high. I think you'll have a great trip.
And please forgive me for being thin-skinned, but if you look back at my 2 posts, I don't think you could really consider them "condescending" and I never used "vitriolic words like "nitwit," "scare mongering," and "such a silly conversation." If anything, perhaps my sense of humor was mis-interpreted.
From your OP, I got the impression that you were well-travelled individuals who liked going places on their own. But based on 2 people's opinions, you were ready to cancel your whole trip. I have not been to Russia, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but I have many friends who have visited there and we are even considering a move there - so I have done my research.
While Moscow is certainly more difficult than other European cities (mainly because of the language and the less developed tourist infrastructure) - I really don't consider it more dangerous than any other big city (especially in these times). I allowed my 13 year old son to go last May. You have to keep your wits about you, be smart, and be constantly aware of your surroundings - as you should anywhere.
And as for petty crime and corruption - it's everywhere and I just think it would be sad to use those things as the primary reasons not to travel to a place.
Finally, my little annecdote about friends visiting New Orleans was only meant to emphasize the point that 1 person's opinion about a place is just that - ONE person's opinion. Nothing more....
I am glad that you will continue to use this board for your travel plans. I have used Fodors for the past 4 years and the comments and advice I have received from people have been great. I haven't followed all the advice given, but it gave me the information I needed to make choices and decisions about my travels.
Have fun planning your trip!
Nov 18th, 2006, 10:40 PM
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For sure, you are wise to consider all contingencies...Best would be to engage a reputable local guide - economical and invaluable...for both destinations. They can achieve the very best deals at favorable lodging and also tour you all over most efficiently.
Nov 19th, 2006, 07:37 AM
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It IS totally condescending and irresponsible to dismiss someone's question just because you personally have never had a problem. Even the posters who love Moscow have said it can be difficult for tourists so it's not like the question was totally stupid is it? The OP never *stated* that Russia was dangerous, he was simply asking a question, wanting to know exactly what his friends meant by "difficult and dangerous" before deciding whether to go ahead or not.I don't see how anyone could be offended at that. I've been to many places which others consider "sketchy" and never had a problem, but I know others who have, so it would be irresponsible of me to say it was perfectly safe just because nothing happened to me personally. Maybe I was lucky, maybe I don't look like a good target, who knows?
Nov 19th, 2006, 01:43 PM
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I am a woman of 57 who traveled independently to St Petersburg and Moscow this past summer with my 15 year old son and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Both of us loved it and hope to go back before too long. I booked our hotels ahead of time, went on walking tours of both cities and hired a private guide to take us to palaces around St Petersburg. Traveling without a tour can be done in Russia, you will see more and learn more. It will not be entirely easy, but it is worth it.
I too had heard and read stories that scared me, but decided to go anyway. I have always wanted to see Russia and my son thought it would be so "cool'. He was exactly right. It was cool - also fascinating , beautiful, amazing, and completely not what we expected. It was worth every effort and penny to get there. I am so glad that we went.
To be honest, there was a moment standing in the stark grey Soviet era St Petersburg airport trying to figure out how to fill out the entry form that my heart raced and I had serious second thoughts about coming. ( Panic time - what on earth was my "patrimonial" ? Turned out to be my maiden name.) Glancing around, I could see that others around me were feeling the same way, but, we need not have worried.
My son and I spoke no Russian and hardly knew the Cyrillic alphabet before we got there - shame on us - but we managed. We actually learned the alphabet by reading all of the corporate signs we passed - Citibank, McDonalds, Sbarro, etc. - and soon laughed at our astonishing ignorance about modern Russia.
St Petersburg is stunningly beautiful. We walked everywhere around the central city until late at night because it did not get dark til almost midnight when we were there at the beginning of August. We visited all of the palaces in and out of the city, lots of churches, went to the Marinsky Theater, took a jetboat to Peterhof and adored the Hermitage which is visitor friendly and easy to tour.
We people watched and were utterly fascinated by what we saw. There were weddings and brides everywhere we went, one even wearing a pink gown nad veil. Summer is the most popular time for Russian weddings. We loved the enchantingly old fashioned custom Russians have of giving their girlfriends one long stemmed flower when on a date which gets carried everywhere and that close female friends have no embarrassment in walking everywhere holding each others hands. Its really sweet.
Russian fashion sense is quiet different from ours. The women are much more glitzy. If it has sparkles, fringe or chains, or better yet, all three - Wear it! Stillettos with mini skirts and fishnet stockings are not reserved for "working" women and dusty pink tops seem to be very popular over black pants - at least four women on any metro escalator wore them, I counted. No one I saw wore shorts in either city.
Moscow is more formal than St Petersburg which makes sense as it is more urban and fast paced, a lot like new York. Men there often carried an elegant, short handled leather "manbag" when dressed in suits. These look a bit like small Gucci ladies handbags from the 70's. I rather liked them.
The entire population of St Petersburg seems to spend its time outside when it stays light late, as a result everyone looks tired every day. There is a lively sidewalk cafe scene along main thououghfares and lots of coffee bars that also serve wine - and decadent deserts. We were amused to watch a high priced madame in one cafe as she ran her business on Nevsky Proscpect and also met businessmen from America, some with their families, who were in Russia working for multinational corporations.
We discovered that many Russians take their kids on tours of their own country - just as we do ours - during school breaks. Both cities and all of the palaces were full of Russian families. Red Square was crammed with them - and Japanese tour groups.
Red Square is breathtaking. We could hardly believe we were lucky enough to be there. My son adored the experience and if you can get a teen excited, you know something is great!.
We were astonished by the upscale shopping in Russia, nothing had prepared us for it. Mercedes, Maserati, Rolls Royce, every French designer and the most extraordinary department store I have ever visited - GUM, pronounced "goom" - right along one side of Red Square. We stumbled across a tropical fish store that was beyond anything imaginable. Basically you could buy a setup akin to anything Sea World owns, if you had the money.
We took the Red Arrow sleeper train between the two cities and had the time of our lives on it. We bounced around our luxurious private roomette too delighted to settle down and sleep ont he comfortable fold down beds. When we finally did, I woke again at 3 am to peek out at a world straight out of Dr. Zivago - without the snow. It was light again and I could see stands of birch trees, then an evergreen forest, some dashas and even a yellow and small white church with onion domes. Beautiful, fascinating and mysterious, just like Russia.
I too had heard and read stories that scared me, but decided to go anyway. I have always wanted to see Russia and my son thought it would be so "cool'. He was exactly right. It was cool - also fascinating , beautiful, amazing, and completely not what we expected. It was worth every effort and penny to get there. I am so glad that we went.
To be honest, there was a moment standing in the stark grey Soviet era St Petersburg airport trying to figure out how to fill out the entry form that my heart raced and I had serious second thoughts about coming. ( Panic time - what on earth was my "patrimonial" ? Turned out to be my maiden name.) Glancing around, I could see that others around me were feeling the same way, but, we need not have worried.
My son and I spoke no Russian and hardly knew the Cyrillic alphabet before we got there - shame on us - but we managed. We actually learned the alphabet by reading all of the corporate signs we passed - Citibank, McDonalds, Sbarro, etc. - and soon laughed at our astonishing ignorance about modern Russia.
St Petersburg is stunningly beautiful. We walked everywhere around the central city until late at night because it did not get dark til almost midnight when we were there at the beginning of August. We visited all of the palaces in and out of the city, lots of churches, went to the Marinsky Theater, took a jetboat to Peterhof and adored the Hermitage which is visitor friendly and easy to tour.
We people watched and were utterly fascinated by what we saw. There were weddings and brides everywhere we went, one even wearing a pink gown nad veil. Summer is the most popular time for Russian weddings. We loved the enchantingly old fashioned custom Russians have of giving their girlfriends one long stemmed flower when on a date which gets carried everywhere and that close female friends have no embarrassment in walking everywhere holding each others hands. Its really sweet.
Russian fashion sense is quiet different from ours. The women are much more glitzy. If it has sparkles, fringe or chains, or better yet, all three - Wear it! Stillettos with mini skirts and fishnet stockings are not reserved for "working" women and dusty pink tops seem to be very popular over black pants - at least four women on any metro escalator wore them, I counted. No one I saw wore shorts in either city.
Moscow is more formal than St Petersburg which makes sense as it is more urban and fast paced, a lot like new York. Men there often carried an elegant, short handled leather "manbag" when dressed in suits. These look a bit like small Gucci ladies handbags from the 70's. I rather liked them.
The entire population of St Petersburg seems to spend its time outside when it stays light late, as a result everyone looks tired every day. There is a lively sidewalk cafe scene along main thououghfares and lots of coffee bars that also serve wine - and decadent deserts. We were amused to watch a high priced madame in one cafe as she ran her business on Nevsky Proscpect and also met businessmen from America, some with their families, who were in Russia working for multinational corporations.
We discovered that many Russians take their kids on tours of their own country - just as we do ours - during school breaks. Both cities and all of the palaces were full of Russian families. Red Square was crammed with them - and Japanese tour groups.
Red Square is breathtaking. We could hardly believe we were lucky enough to be there. My son adored the experience and if you can get a teen excited, you know something is great!.
We were astonished by the upscale shopping in Russia, nothing had prepared us for it. Mercedes, Maserati, Rolls Royce, every French designer and the most extraordinary department store I have ever visited - GUM, pronounced "goom" - right along one side of Red Square. We stumbled across a tropical fish store that was beyond anything imaginable. Basically you could buy a setup akin to anything Sea World owns, if you had the money.
We took the Red Arrow sleeper train between the two cities and had the time of our lives on it. We bounced around our luxurious private roomette too delighted to settle down and sleep ont he comfortable fold down beds. When we finally did, I woke again at 3 am to peek out at a world straight out of Dr. Zivago - without the snow. It was light again and I could see stands of birch trees, then an evergreen forest, some dashas and even a yellow and small white church with onion domes. Beautiful, fascinating and mysterious, just like Russia.
Nov 19th, 2006, 06:45 PM
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I don't know about Moscow, but IMHO it would be a tremendous shame for you to miss experiencing St. Petersburg. This lovely and remarkable city was one of my top, top highlights during a 2004 trip that included Finland, Austria and Scotland (so you can imagine what it was up against in terms of memorable excursions).
The one and ONLY harried moment we experienced was on the train from St. Petersburg to Helsinki, Finland. The strict check of your compartment prior to leaving can be a bit scary. But you do exactly as you are told and answer their questions quickly and more importantly honestly, and the whole thing is over and done with. Their main concern is that you do not leave with their currency; it must be exchanged right then and there. I recieved a raised eyebrow when I told them how little cash I was traveling with, but a quick explanation of "Plastic... credit card... plastic," sufficed.
One of the best decisions we made was to hire a private tour guide and driver for one of our few days there, basically to cover the usual -- magnificant -- suspects within the city proper. The cost was low with immeasureable return on investment. We went to the front of lines, maximimizing what we were able to experience... and we also gained rich insight, not only in terms of history but through details that only come when you have the opportunity to converse in a meaningful way with someone born and raised in the place you are visiting. (I cannot recall the service we used, but it was based out of our hotel - Pulkovskaya.)
I must say... I did not run into anyone who was not nice, and my father and I only speak English. If you even attempted a greeting in Russian, or were nice and attentive you gained friendly treatment in return. (Our guide commented, however, that we were the first non-loud-speaking/obnoxious Americans she had met. Yikes.)
I would check to see if there is any internal strife to contend with -- though we happened to go at time when this was a concern -- otherwise, general tourist (or domestic for that matter) rules apply in terms of safety.
Catherine Palace was amazing, and not just the Amber Room. Then there is the Winter Palace and Palace Square; Peterhoff --(1/2 day at least!); Smolny Cathedral; St. Issac's Square; The Peter and Paul fortress... and of course, the Church of the Ressurection of Christ. (Here I rented a horse on-the-spot from a couple of young girls outside for a 10-minute ride; a love for horses provides its own universal language and on this day we were walking on our own).
I cannot recall how many miles we walked, but walking Nevsky Prospekt is worth however tired your feet may become. Kazan Cathedral, and magnificent horse scuptures... There are breathtaking sites all along the way.
And, we did not even glimpse the art collections of The Hermitage.. there just was not time.
A side note: several wedding parties flocked around the monument of Peter the Great ("The Bronze Horseman) when we were there. Apparently it is good luck to share a kiss there, so include this on your list also.
Bottomline: I simply cannot do St. Petersburg justice. I only hope that you and your wife will be choose to be thrilled by the city yourselves.
I have not traveled to even half the places I want to yet, but I would go back to St. Petersburg in a heartbeat.
The one and ONLY harried moment we experienced was on the train from St. Petersburg to Helsinki, Finland. The strict check of your compartment prior to leaving can be a bit scary. But you do exactly as you are told and answer their questions quickly and more importantly honestly, and the whole thing is over and done with. Their main concern is that you do not leave with their currency; it must be exchanged right then and there. I recieved a raised eyebrow when I told them how little cash I was traveling with, but a quick explanation of "Plastic... credit card... plastic," sufficed.
One of the best decisions we made was to hire a private tour guide and driver for one of our few days there, basically to cover the usual -- magnificant -- suspects within the city proper. The cost was low with immeasureable return on investment. We went to the front of lines, maximimizing what we were able to experience... and we also gained rich insight, not only in terms of history but through details that only come when you have the opportunity to converse in a meaningful way with someone born and raised in the place you are visiting. (I cannot recall the service we used, but it was based out of our hotel - Pulkovskaya.)
I must say... I did not run into anyone who was not nice, and my father and I only speak English. If you even attempted a greeting in Russian, or were nice and attentive you gained friendly treatment in return. (Our guide commented, however, that we were the first non-loud-speaking/obnoxious Americans she had met. Yikes.)
I would check to see if there is any internal strife to contend with -- though we happened to go at time when this was a concern -- otherwise, general tourist (or domestic for that matter) rules apply in terms of safety.
Catherine Palace was amazing, and not just the Amber Room. Then there is the Winter Palace and Palace Square; Peterhoff --(1/2 day at least!); Smolny Cathedral; St. Issac's Square; The Peter and Paul fortress... and of course, the Church of the Ressurection of Christ. (Here I rented a horse on-the-spot from a couple of young girls outside for a 10-minute ride; a love for horses provides its own universal language and on this day we were walking on our own).
I cannot recall how many miles we walked, but walking Nevsky Prospekt is worth however tired your feet may become. Kazan Cathedral, and magnificent horse scuptures... There are breathtaking sites all along the way.
And, we did not even glimpse the art collections of The Hermitage.. there just was not time.
A side note: several wedding parties flocked around the monument of Peter the Great ("The Bronze Horseman) when we were there. Apparently it is good luck to share a kiss there, so include this on your list also.
Bottomline: I simply cannot do St. Petersburg justice. I only hope that you and your wife will be choose to be thrilled by the city yourselves.
I have not traveled to even half the places I want to yet, but I would go back to St. Petersburg in a heartbeat.
