Spectators or Participants?
Dec 21st, 2003, 05:55 AM
#1
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Spectators or Participants?
My observation: Queries seem to be about things or places to look at. Most interest is passive. Why don't more tourists seek participation venues. Fishing, Golf or Hunting. I spent 15 years visiting the UK and canoeing with the BCU. My children attended schools in England and Germany. An available source of REAL tourism is the USA Peace Corps. Why waste time worrying that your hotel might not have an elevator? Eastern European Theater is excellent and inexpensive. A wwek ago we had Swan Lake for less than $40. A Moscow Company. January we get Bolero and Carmen...Either for $7.5/best seats! Merry Christmas, Happy New Year...and we wish all..Sto Lat! 100 Years.
Dec 21st, 2003, 07:51 AM
#3
My guess would be the British Canoe Union.
London, Paris, Rome, and many of the popular cities queried about here have more to see than most folks have the time to cover. For many it's a once in a lifetime or an infrequent experience. Besides, I can and do play tennis, bike, and go fishing at home.
I'm sure plenty of people clock in many miles a day getting to/from and enjoying all that passive art, culture and history.
When we're in Europe, we probably do more outside the big cities...hikes, country walks, biking , horseback ridiing. But those activities are additional ways to experience the new environment, not the point of the destination.
2. Tourism = Peace Corps? There's a level of irony there I'm just not getting.
3. Those who fret about a hotel with an elevator might well have mobility issues. They aren't necessarily just sclubs who won't move their fanny packs.
4. Great news about theater in Eastern Europe being such a bargain. But it's a bit passive isn't it, just sitting there looking at the actors on the stage? What would your former mates in the BCU think?
5. And, just curious about this one, what does any of this have to do with where your children attended school?
London, Paris, Rome, and many of the popular cities queried about here have more to see than most folks have the time to cover. For many it's a once in a lifetime or an infrequent experience. Besides, I can and do play tennis, bike, and go fishing at home.
I'm sure plenty of people clock in many miles a day getting to/from and enjoying all that passive art, culture and history.
When we're in Europe, we probably do more outside the big cities...hikes, country walks, biking , horseback ridiing. But those activities are additional ways to experience the new environment, not the point of the destination.
2. Tourism = Peace Corps? There's a level of irony there I'm just not getting.
3. Those who fret about a hotel with an elevator might well have mobility issues. They aren't necessarily just sclubs who won't move their fanny packs.
4. Great news about theater in Eastern Europe being such a bargain. But it's a bit passive isn't it, just sitting there looking at the actors on the stage? What would your former mates in the BCU think?
5. And, just curious about this one, what does any of this have to do with where your children attended school?
Dec 21st, 2003, 08:23 AM
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Passive? The more I think about it, the more I keep coming back to the fact that I usually walk between 6 and 10 miles a day when I travel. I expect many on this board put in similiar miles when in Europe, except for "lay on the beach" vacations.
The perception that all american tourists are lazy and pampered is just not true.
The perception that all american tourists are lazy and pampered is just not true.
Dec 21st, 2003, 09:01 AM
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Hi
"passive" is one of those words that takes on an implication that is negative, beyond the dictionary meaning, just as "unsophisticated" or "tourist" do.
You use capital letters for REAL tourism, as if what many of us do is
imaginary or less-than-complete traveling. "Why waste time worrying that your hotel might not have an elevator?" Because some of us, many of us, have to save up both time and money in order to travel, and we plan carefully, and if for some, an elevator is important rather for reasons of stamina or for simple pleasure, there are no apologies necessry.
Enjoy your canoeing, and thanks for the tip on the Moscow ballet, but your choices of hunting animals or fishing do not appeal to me as REAL tourism.
"passive" is one of those words that takes on an implication that is negative, beyond the dictionary meaning, just as "unsophisticated" or "tourist" do.
You use capital letters for REAL tourism, as if what many of us do is
imaginary or less-than-complete traveling. "Why waste time worrying that your hotel might not have an elevator?" Because some of us, many of us, have to save up both time and money in order to travel, and we plan carefully, and if for some, an elevator is important rather for reasons of stamina or for simple pleasure, there are no apologies necessry.
Enjoy your canoeing, and thanks for the tip on the Moscow ballet, but your choices of hunting animals or fishing do not appeal to me as REAL tourism.
Dec 21st, 2003, 09:04 AM
#10
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I'm not quite sure the poster is any more "active" than anyone else although s/he has chosen to do physically "active" things when visiting Europe. I would hope the opportunities to do these same things are also available where this person lives, and if they are, why go somewhere else to do them? So, to me, that is no different than people traveling to other places to "view" the art or architecture.
What doesn't seem to have sunk in is the fact that people travel for different reasons and just because those reasons are diifferent than someone else's doesn't make the reasons any less, or more, "valid." And I suppose I am one of those who might "worry" about the presence, or absence, of an elevator in a hotel just as the poster probably might "worry" about whether or not that canoe is a well-made one or not. All a matter or priorities I suppose.
What doesn't seem to have sunk in is the fact that people travel for different reasons and just because those reasons are diifferent than someone else's doesn't make the reasons any less, or more, "valid." And I suppose I am one of those who might "worry" about the presence, or absence, of an elevator in a hotel just as the poster probably might "worry" about whether or not that canoe is a well-made one or not. All a matter or priorities I suppose.
Dec 21st, 2003, 09:13 AM
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odd post, putting your own preferences up as the only valuable experiences. I have zero, zip, nada interest in fishing, golf or killing animals -- at home or as a tourist activity. If I did want to golf, I could play that game at home, and wouldn't spend my limited overseas travel time doing it. You seem to have some financial issues as you are constantly telling other people to stay in really cheap hotels because you want to, as if that isn't merely a preference and value judgment. I don't want to stay in a really cheap hotel because I enjoy staying in nicer ones. I don't "worry" about this because I choose where I want to stay. However, I don't spend my money on golf courses nor buying firearms.
Who gives a you-know-what that your children attended schools in England and Germany?
My brother was in the Peace Corps and it is not a tourism activity.
Who gives a you-know-what that your children attended schools in England and Germany?
My brother was in the Peace Corps and it is not a tourism activity.
Dec 21st, 2003, 10:04 AM
#12
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Sports activities that involve special equipment add to the baggage load, unless the equipment can be rented (and this isn't always the case; suppliers sometimes run out.) Furthermore, while I don't hunt or fish, I imagine the practical issues for those things would be considerable: determining when the season was, acquiring the proper licenses, and as for hunting rifles, security regulations make it hard enough to take along even a swiss army knife these days.
Golf would be a bit easier - providing the facility allows non-members and rents clubs.
There have been posts about cycling holidays, although my interest is limited to renting a bike for an afternoon or two. I recall one travel writer (Rick Steves) suggesting one rent canoes for a brief 1-way float down the Dordogne, which apparently some have done and enjoyed.
The easiest kind of participant sport is walking/hiking. Which, as already mentioned, is a built-in part of most 'spectator' holidays.
Golf would be a bit easier - providing the facility allows non-members and rents clubs.
There have been posts about cycling holidays, although my interest is limited to renting a bike for an afternoon or two. I recall one travel writer (Rick Steves) suggesting one rent canoes for a brief 1-way float down the Dordogne, which apparently some have done and enjoyed.
The easiest kind of participant sport is walking/hiking. Which, as already mentioned, is a built-in part of most 'spectator' holidays.
Dec 21st, 2003, 10:08 AM
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GSteed,
You are right that Eastern Europe offers some fine venues for theater of this ilk. I attended the opera in Prague and saw a great performance of La Traviata.
Art is not always "passive" entertainment. A trip to the Dali Museum in Figueres, Spain is a fine example of active art. I never appreciated Dali until I visited this museum.
Count me with the group that doesn't enjoy golfing, fishing or hunting and consider these activities a grand waste of time. Although I enjoy hiking on my vacations, I can hike here in the States but I cannot explore castles, enormous art galleries and soak up the history that I can in Europe.
While I appreciate that you may be enthusiastic about "active vacations" they don't seem to have made you less bitter. I hope you find joy.
You are right that Eastern Europe offers some fine venues for theater of this ilk. I attended the opera in Prague and saw a great performance of La Traviata.
Art is not always "passive" entertainment. A trip to the Dali Museum in Figueres, Spain is a fine example of active art. I never appreciated Dali until I visited this museum.
Count me with the group that doesn't enjoy golfing, fishing or hunting and consider these activities a grand waste of time. Although I enjoy hiking on my vacations, I can hike here in the States but I cannot explore castles, enormous art galleries and soak up the history that I can in Europe.
While I appreciate that you may be enthusiastic about "active vacations" they don't seem to have made you less bitter. I hope you find joy.
Dec 21st, 2003, 10:12 AM
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For the sake of time, I'll ditto Christina. (Almost sounds like I wrote that.) I can kick-box anyone to the ground but that doesn't mean I have any desire to rent a fifth-floor flat in Rome with no elevator. And golf...gag me with a Titleist. Sure, I love the desert but you'll never see me on a golf course. I'd rather hike a mountain, photograph the view, and then get me a nice "passive" massage.
I sent my Godson to a French University. He came home with attitude. Big deal. At least we can converse in French. Peace, baby.
I sent my Godson to a French University. He came home with attitude. Big deal. At least we can converse in French. Peace, baby.
Dec 21st, 2003, 12:34 PM
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I took Gsteed's post to mean, that tourists as a whole go to a place and view what other people have created, instead of really getting into the depth of the people in the country.
I agree to a point, I can look at paintings and sculpture all day but that doesn't really give me an insight into the country or its people.
When I have seen all the museums of other people's art that I want to see, then I can visit the place in a more intimate level, getting to know the people and what they do for amusement.
I have had so much fun with local people at their celebratons, carnivales, festivals, saint's days,
football games, cooking demonstrations and other activities that require hands on involvement.
I agree to a point, I can look at paintings and sculpture all day but that doesn't really give me an insight into the country or its people.
When I have seen all the museums of other people's art that I want to see, then I can visit the place in a more intimate level, getting to know the people and what they do for amusement.
I have had so much fun with local people at their celebratons, carnivales, festivals, saint's days,
football games, cooking demonstrations and other activities that require hands on involvement.
Dec 21st, 2003, 01:44 PM
#17
If the distinction between passive and participating is whether or not the viewed object is static or moving, then IMO the difference is trivial.
I'd probably revise my opinton, Seaurchin, if you were actually doing the cooking, dancing or
GSteed opinions were
I'd probably revise my opinton, Seaurchin, if you were actually doing the cooking, dancing or
GSteed opinions were
Dec 21st, 2003, 01:47 PM
#18
sorry, I pressed reply way too soon.
To finish, Seaurchin, I just don't see the distinction between watching or even participating in a live event and observing a piece of art, architecture or landscape.
I originally thought GSteed's opinions leaned toward the more atheletic but after reading your post, I see a different facet. Don't agree, but see another valid point of view.
To finish, Seaurchin, I just don't see the distinction between watching or even participating in a live event and observing a piece of art, architecture or landscape.
I originally thought GSteed's opinions leaned toward the more atheletic but after reading your post, I see a different facet. Don't agree, but see another valid point of view.
Dec 21st, 2003, 01:53 PM
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Re>A wwek ago we had Swan Lake for less than $40. <
Do I have this right? It is possible to particpate in Swan lake (not just sit and watch it) for $40 somewhere in eastern Europe? Are there auditions, of just a fresh cast every few days? Rehersals? How do you train for which part?
Do I have this right? It is possible to particpate in Swan lake (not just sit and watch it) for $40 somewhere in eastern Europe? Are there auditions, of just a fresh cast every few days? Rehersals? How do you train for which part?
Dec 21st, 2003, 02:13 PM
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I have done hands on cooking with locals, danced around at festivals, etc.
If you mean I am passive by watching local fireworks or games then I guess I am, I have done these things because I mostly rent local houses and stay a while.
It is all a matter of what is called spectating vs. participating, neither way is the best.
I am not defending gsteed, I don't know what he meant, I just stated what I thought he meant, which was getting out and participating instead of worrying about stairs in your hotel, both are matters to consider if you have physical troubles.
If you mean I am passive by watching local fireworks or games then I guess I am, I have done these things because I mostly rent local houses and stay a while.
It is all a matter of what is called spectating vs. participating, neither way is the best.
I am not defending gsteed, I don't know what he meant, I just stated what I thought he meant, which was getting out and participating instead of worrying about stairs in your hotel, both are matters to consider if you have physical troubles.
