Special Meal in Rome - La Pergola or other?
Sep 30th, 2003, 08:10 AM
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Special Meal in Rome - La Pergola or other?
I'm celebrating a special occassion in Rome and need a very special restaurant. It must be romantic and food must have Italian flare! Price is not a consideration - I'm willing to pay for a memorable dining experience.
Is La Pergola worth it? We are staying near the Stazione Termini. Is it a hassle to get to the restaurant from there?
Any other suggestions?
Is La Pergola worth it? We are staying near the Stazione Termini. Is it a hassle to get to the restaurant from there?
Any other suggestions?
Sep 30th, 2003, 08:30 AM
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some friends of mine recently had a spectacular dinner at l'Etoile restaurant in the Atlante Star hotel.
www.atlantehotels.com
Room had a view of St Peter's.
For a dinner of this caliber, just take a taxi.
www.atlantehotels.com
Room had a view of St Peter's.
For a dinner of this caliber, just take a taxi.
Sep 30th, 2003, 09:00 AM
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Hi Juliekl,
I'm so glad you asked about La Pergola before going. My husband and I were there last year and I would not recommend it at all.
We are foodies and have visited many of the best restaurants in the San Francisco Bay Area where we live. We also love to visit the top restaurants while we are traveling. But, we found La Pergola to be very very pretentious. There was just a lot of unnecessary ceremony (i.e. a "water list," long ceremonious opening of the olive oil bottle at your table, provision of a new napkin on a special plate halfway through the meal, etc.) that we felt was very forced. None of this felt like a particularly Italian experience.
In addition, the food did not seem particularly authentically Italian because it was prepared and presented in such an ostentatious way. In my opinion, the beauty of authentic Italian food is its simplicity. The food was good, but it wasn't great. We had much better meals in Rome, but this one cost probably four times the price. I believe our bill was around $300 U.S. Also, we met the chef and he is not Italian, (I believe he is German).
I wish we had known more about La Pergola before going.
Probably my favorite place in Rome that would be appropriate for a special dinner was Restaurante Nino-Via Borgognona, 11. It is near the Spanish Steps.
If you have any other specific questions, let me know.
Have a wonderful time in Rome!
Daria
I'm so glad you asked about La Pergola before going. My husband and I were there last year and I would not recommend it at all.
We are foodies and have visited many of the best restaurants in the San Francisco Bay Area where we live. We also love to visit the top restaurants while we are traveling. But, we found La Pergola to be very very pretentious. There was just a lot of unnecessary ceremony (i.e. a "water list," long ceremonious opening of the olive oil bottle at your table, provision of a new napkin on a special plate halfway through the meal, etc.) that we felt was very forced. None of this felt like a particularly Italian experience.
In addition, the food did not seem particularly authentically Italian because it was prepared and presented in such an ostentatious way. In my opinion, the beauty of authentic Italian food is its simplicity. The food was good, but it wasn't great. We had much better meals in Rome, but this one cost probably four times the price. I believe our bill was around $300 U.S. Also, we met the chef and he is not Italian, (I believe he is German).
I wish we had known more about La Pergola before going.
Probably my favorite place in Rome that would be appropriate for a special dinner was Restaurante Nino-Via Borgognona, 11. It is near the Spanish Steps.
If you have any other specific questions, let me know.
Have a wonderful time in Rome!
Daria
Sep 30th, 2003, 09:13 AM
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Where's Grinisa when you need her? You may want to read this:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34445954
Do your best rifling through the histrionics.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34445954
Do your best rifling through the histrionics.
Sep 30th, 2003, 09:56 AM
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Do not waste your time or money at La Pergola. It is indeed pretentious and, although the food is certainly excellent, it is just like any nouvelle cuisine you can find at fine restaurants in the usa. The chef isn't Italian either. If you want a real Roman dining experience, try Checchino dal 1887. Cozy dining room, elegant and refined service but none of this "water list" garbage, exquisite food in the true Roman way and unsurpassable wine list. Unlike NYFoodSnob, I enjoy Agata e Romeo. The food is prepared with a bit lighter hand and is somewhat more innovative. Same with Il Convivio. For excellent seafood, try my favorite, Alberto Ciarla in Trastevere. In warm weather, they have a very romantic vine-covered patio lit with candles. Also, Camponeschi on Piazza Farnese. Very elegant and also superb wine list, located in one of the most romantic (at night) piazzas in Rome.
Sep 30th, 2003, 11:26 AM
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With respect to Checchino, would you still reccomend it if one was not disposed to try offal? My wife and I are considering restaurants in Rome with the same parameters at Juliekl but have not considered Checchio based upon the emphasis on the "fifth quarter". Is this a mistake and does Checchino offer a fabulous experience for the less less adventuresome?
Sep 30th, 2003, 12:34 PM
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We loved La Pergola!!! Ate there in June this year. Yes, the chef is German, but the food is excellent. The room is beautiful and the view is the best in Rome. The service is elaborate, but done with a very light touch. When I joked about the water menu,and asked about the salt menu, they came to the table with a tray of salt choices. The food is light, but each course had a "side car" of an extra little dish. The desserts were worth the price of the meal. It is expensive,(do order the tasting menu) but perfect for a special occasion. I wish I could have gone there for my birthday yesterday. One of the most memorable meals of my life.
Sep 30th, 2003, 12:44 PM
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Checchino has a lot more than offal!
We were delighted with our experience there.
You can check their menu at
http://www.checchino-dal-1887.com/
We were delighted with our experience there.
You can check their menu at
http://www.checchino-dal-1887.com/
Sep 30th, 2003, 12:57 PM
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Il Convivio has lost a bit of its luster since the early 90s when wife and husband ran it in a tiny room with less than ten tables. Now it has moved, and is very fancy, expensive, and if you are in nyc, you can have better there for less. Sorry, but this review is based on evening meals there on three separate trips. We loved it the very first time, but not afterward.
Sep 30th, 2003, 01:14 PM
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Nino is certainly a wonderful restaurant--outstanding service, delightful food, and a great location, but I'm not certain I'd call the atmosphere romantic. It was, however, an excellent value for what you get. I do make a point of having at least one meal there each time I'm in Rome.
BC
BC
Sep 30th, 2003, 03:29 PM
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Thanks to jody for posting the link to Checchino's website. Yes, they do have so much more than offal. In fact, one of their menus, the "collector's menu" offers antipasto, pasta, saltimbocca alla romana and dessert for about 40 Euro. You get a souvenir Buon Ricordo plate too. I ordered this last April and it was outstanding. The saltimbocca was melt in your mouth delicious. My husband had the "buon ricordo" menu and had antipasto, pasta, involtini and dessert for the same price and got a different Buon Ricordo souvenir plate! His involtini were made of deliciously tender cuts of beef and pork. Not a tail or snout in sight. If you want an Italian flare, or make that Roman, Checchino is the place to go.
As to hotel dining rooms, whether they are La Pergola, La Terraza, L'Etoile, the Hassler, Vivere at the St. Regis, I've tried them all and while some are better than others I couldn't remember anything about a meal at any one of them although I do remember the Hassler's bill was somewhere around $400 for two.
As to hotel dining rooms, whether they are La Pergola, La Terraza, L'Etoile, the Hassler, Vivere at the St. Regis, I've tried them all and while some are better than others I couldn't remember anything about a meal at any one of them although I do remember the Hassler's bill was somewhere around $400 for two.
Sep 30th, 2003, 04:00 PM
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Have had a fabulous meal at La Pergola. Knew the chef was German and that was fine just as he would have been American or French. The food was fantastic, the service superb and the views were outstanding.
The views from the executive level in this hotel are also breathtaking.
The views from the executive level in this hotel are also breathtaking.
Sep 30th, 2003, 07:28 PM
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Two points:
1. My issue with Checchino is not that it serves only offal but that the strength of its menu lies in the dishes containing such ingredients. This is not meant to imply that other "non-offal" dishes are not wonderful but rather that such dishes don't play to the restaurants strength. For example, I'm sure no one would turn down a meat entree from Le Bernardin in NYC; however, the reputation of the restaurant has been built on seafood and that is where the best offerings are found.
2. I think there is a large philosophical divide between diners' expectations at home and in foreign countries. If the best retaurant in the world (a completely subjective determination but bear with me), for example, was a "french" restaurant in Japan with a Peruvian chef, would the experience that such restaurant provided be any less noteworthy because it was not a genuine "Japanese" restaurant. On the contrary, the chef at such a restaurant is likely to have brought a radical new approach to the use of "native" ingredients and present them in new combinations. The genius of chefs such as Jean George, Ferran Adria and Guy Savoy is that their cuisine transcends their cultural roots and finds expression in a multitude of new forms.
At home, people tend to search for the best retaurants regardless of provenance. Imagine if one limited themselves to only "American" restaurants in NYC or SF. Yet, to a certain extent, we expect our dining experiences in foreign countries to be fit a certain paradigm whether its a bistro in France or a trattoria in Rome. I don't wish to belittle such experiences since many of these restaurants provide one with a variety of new culinary experiences that cannot be replicated at home. Yet, one should not forgoe establishments that don't fit such a paradigm because they are located in a hotel or have a foreign chef.
Great food is local in the sense that it often comes from the use of what products are locally available in a given season rather than whether the chef was raised locally. I've never been to La Pergola; however, if a German chef in a hotel restaurant can elevate Italian indredients to a new level in his cooking, that would be some Italian food that I would like to try.
1. My issue with Checchino is not that it serves only offal but that the strength of its menu lies in the dishes containing such ingredients. This is not meant to imply that other "non-offal" dishes are not wonderful but rather that such dishes don't play to the restaurants strength. For example, I'm sure no one would turn down a meat entree from Le Bernardin in NYC; however, the reputation of the restaurant has been built on seafood and that is where the best offerings are found.
2. I think there is a large philosophical divide between diners' expectations at home and in foreign countries. If the best retaurant in the world (a completely subjective determination but bear with me), for example, was a "french" restaurant in Japan with a Peruvian chef, would the experience that such restaurant provided be any less noteworthy because it was not a genuine "Japanese" restaurant. On the contrary, the chef at such a restaurant is likely to have brought a radical new approach to the use of "native" ingredients and present them in new combinations. The genius of chefs such as Jean George, Ferran Adria and Guy Savoy is that their cuisine transcends their cultural roots and finds expression in a multitude of new forms.
At home, people tend to search for the best retaurants regardless of provenance. Imagine if one limited themselves to only "American" restaurants in NYC or SF. Yet, to a certain extent, we expect our dining experiences in foreign countries to be fit a certain paradigm whether its a bistro in France or a trattoria in Rome. I don't wish to belittle such experiences since many of these restaurants provide one with a variety of new culinary experiences that cannot be replicated at home. Yet, one should not forgoe establishments that don't fit such a paradigm because they are located in a hotel or have a foreign chef.
Great food is local in the sense that it often comes from the use of what products are locally available in a given season rather than whether the chef was raised locally. I've never been to La Pergola; however, if a German chef in a hotel restaurant can elevate Italian indredients to a new level in his cooking, that would be some Italian food that I would like to try.
Oct 1st, 2003, 03:02 AM
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Well said, CharlesH, but you can't compare apples to oranges or diners looking for local authenticity to diners looking for theater, which deserves better clarification by posters.
NYC and even SF are a melting pot of flavors and Rome, Florence, Venice et al are not. These are quintessential Italian cities with indigenous ingredients used to create mostly traditional Italian dishes. Rome has no Chinatown, Koreantown, Greektown. Cubantown, and so on. There is International flavor to be found in Italy but the selection is small. Italy's glory lies in its traditional fare.
Japan's "best" restaurant may be French with a genius Peruvian chef but I couldn't recommend that place for a "special" evening of traditional Japanese cooking. I don't think anyone was suggesting small mindedness by passing on Heinz Beck at La Pergola. If any diner is a star chef groupie (I am), Heinz deserves a try, at least once. But, apart from his kitchen's ingredients and a few waiters, there's nothing Italian about the experience he provides. He directs a very high-concept show which happens to take place in Rome and can readily be found in NYC, SF, Chicago, Miami, and so on.
NYC and even SF are a melting pot of flavors and Rome, Florence, Venice et al are not. These are quintessential Italian cities with indigenous ingredients used to create mostly traditional Italian dishes. Rome has no Chinatown, Koreantown, Greektown. Cubantown, and so on. There is International flavor to be found in Italy but the selection is small. Italy's glory lies in its traditional fare.
Japan's "best" restaurant may be French with a genius Peruvian chef but I couldn't recommend that place for a "special" evening of traditional Japanese cooking. I don't think anyone was suggesting small mindedness by passing on Heinz Beck at La Pergola. If any diner is a star chef groupie (I am), Heinz deserves a try, at least once. But, apart from his kitchen's ingredients and a few waiters, there's nothing Italian about the experience he provides. He directs a very high-concept show which happens to take place in Rome and can readily be found in NYC, SF, Chicago, Miami, and so on.
Oct 1st, 2003, 05:48 AM
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By NYFoodSnob:
Japan's "best" restaurant may be French with a genius Peruvian chef but I couldn't recommend that place for a "special" evening of traditional Japanese cooking. I don't think anyone was suggesting small mindedness by passing on Heinz Beck at La Pergola. If any diner is a star chef groupie (I am), Heinz deserves a try, at least once. But, apart from his kitchen's ingredients and a few waiters, there's nothing Italian about the experience he provides. He directs a very high-concept show which happens to take place in Rome and can readily be found in NYC, SF, Chicago, Miami, and so on
Perfecto. When I stated that La Pergola's chef wasn't Italian, I meant no slight to Mr. Beck's abilities as a chef. It is just that the original poster stated that the restaurant she wanted "must have Italian flare". When I think of "Italian flare" La Pergola is not the first place that comes to mind. It's not even the 100th place that would come to mind. Mr. Beck is a chef of international reknown. I would describe his cuisine as one with "international flare". Simply because his ingredients happen to come form Italy, although certainly not exclusively, does not make what comes out of his kitchen Italian cuisine. If someone wants the fine dining experience that they could have at Le Bernadin, Daniel, Charlie Trotter's et al but with a view of Rome, by all means, go to La Pergola. If someone wants a fine dining experience that showcases true Italian cooking, choose somewhere else.
As to Checchino, I've eaten there several times. Neither my husband or I have tried one of the offal dishes, although next week I plan to eat the Coda alla vaccinara. Just because Checchino prepares some dishes using offal, and prepares them well, does not mean that the other dishes are not exquisite.
Japan's "best" restaurant may be French with a genius Peruvian chef but I couldn't recommend that place for a "special" evening of traditional Japanese cooking. I don't think anyone was suggesting small mindedness by passing on Heinz Beck at La Pergola. If any diner is a star chef groupie (I am), Heinz deserves a try, at least once. But, apart from his kitchen's ingredients and a few waiters, there's nothing Italian about the experience he provides. He directs a very high-concept show which happens to take place in Rome and can readily be found in NYC, SF, Chicago, Miami, and so on
Perfecto. When I stated that La Pergola's chef wasn't Italian, I meant no slight to Mr. Beck's abilities as a chef. It is just that the original poster stated that the restaurant she wanted "must have Italian flare". When I think of "Italian flare" La Pergola is not the first place that comes to mind. It's not even the 100th place that would come to mind. Mr. Beck is a chef of international reknown. I would describe his cuisine as one with "international flare". Simply because his ingredients happen to come form Italy, although certainly not exclusively, does not make what comes out of his kitchen Italian cuisine. If someone wants the fine dining experience that they could have at Le Bernadin, Daniel, Charlie Trotter's et al but with a view of Rome, by all means, go to La Pergola. If someone wants a fine dining experience that showcases true Italian cooking, choose somewhere else.
As to Checchino, I've eaten there several times. Neither my husband or I have tried one of the offal dishes, although next week I plan to eat the Coda alla vaccinara. Just because Checchino prepares some dishes using offal, and prepares them well, does not mean that the other dishes are not exquisite.
Oct 1st, 2003, 06:46 AM
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Although I don't wish to put words in the mouth of the original poster, I don't think that requesting a restaurant with "Italian flair" is the same as requesting a traditional Italian restaurant and, therefore, the comparison to a traditional Japanese meal is misplaced. Not to dwell on the example I presented, but the point with respect to the "french" restuatnt in Japan was that such a restaurant may capture the essence of the elements that make Japanese cuisine special and superimpose them in a new format to create an experience that is unqiuely Japanese. In Spain, El Bulli ceratinly provides such an experience and constiututes dining as theater. Would you not reccomend such an experience to one who was in the area and could such a reservation?
As Maureen Fant, a resident of Rome, has indicated in her recent review of La Pergola, the restuarnt is as Italian as Ferrari. This might not be the Italian that you or I love but it is an Italian experience nontheless. Personally, the water cart (a la Alan Ducasse)and the various olive oils presented during the meal are a bit much for my taste but one cannot deny that Beck is providing a dining experience with an Italian flair albeit a very expensive and tailored one. Given the acclaim that Gambero Rosso has bestowed on the restaurant and its acceptance by Romans, he must be doing something right.
As Maureen Fant, a resident of Rome, has indicated in her recent review of La Pergola, the restuarnt is as Italian as Ferrari. This might not be the Italian that you or I love but it is an Italian experience nontheless. Personally, the water cart (a la Alan Ducasse)and the various olive oils presented during the meal are a bit much for my taste but one cannot deny that Beck is providing a dining experience with an Italian flair albeit a very expensive and tailored one. Given the acclaim that Gambero Rosso has bestowed on the restaurant and its acceptance by Romans, he must be doing something right.
Oct 1st, 2003, 07:28 AM
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I would like to read Maureen Fant's "recent review" of La Pergola. I have her books, one of which is only available in Rome, and there is no mention of La Pergola in them. If she thinks it's as Italian as a Ferrari, I think she has imbibing in their wine list too extensively. Of course Gambero Rosso would praise La Pergola. It is worthy of praise certainly. Same with Michelin, although I view any Michelin starred restaurant in Italy with slight suspicion as they seem to favor French inspired cuisine.
I think it is interesting to note that in Gourmet Magazine's March 2003 issue devoted to Roman food, the only mention of La Pergola (by Fred Plotkin) was:
"Even at (or especially at) such fabled institutions as La Pergola and Agata e Romeo, fame and popularity no longer guarantee an excellent meal."
That issue of Gourmet spotlights some truly great and almost unknown Roman dining experiences. Most in small trattorie or osterie. I celebrated my 40th birthday at Buca di Ripetta and couldn't have been happier. My husband and I celebrate our wedding anniversary in Italy just about every year. One of the best was at Pizzeria da Baffetto, at almost midnight, under the stars. I don't think you need the trappings of a five star ristorante to celebrate. In fact, sometimes all that stuff, and waitstaff, get in the way.
I think it is interesting to note that in Gourmet Magazine's March 2003 issue devoted to Roman food, the only mention of La Pergola (by Fred Plotkin) was:
"Even at (or especially at) such fabled institutions as La Pergola and Agata e Romeo, fame and popularity no longer guarantee an excellent meal."
That issue of Gourmet spotlights some truly great and almost unknown Roman dining experiences. Most in small trattorie or osterie. I celebrated my 40th birthday at Buca di Ripetta and couldn't have been happier. My husband and I celebrate our wedding anniversary in Italy just about every year. One of the best was at Pizzeria da Baffetto, at almost midnight, under the stars. I don't think you need the trappings of a five star ristorante to celebrate. In fact, sometimes all that stuff, and waitstaff, get in the way.
