So, Rex, let me see of I have this straight.

Are you actually saying that:

My listing a little over 2 dozen very basic words, along with an example of a common way they might be used, or a correct variation of it,
(and correctly spelled), all of which any new person trying to use the language might need to know during their first day in Italy, is not a good offering?

If that's the case, you have a right to your opinion, but I'm a person who is always trying new langauages, and I really can't see the sense of this.

I don't even go into forming a real sentence. And in fact- this is exactly the way I learned in the beginning, which wasn't all that long ago!
I am actually helping a couple of people at my job in exactly this same basic way (trial and repetition of basic functional words). They're traveling soon, and they seem to find it very helpful.... and it happens to be something I enjoy.


Loveitaly, thanks for the friendly comment, but I don't think I'll visit that "rudeness" thread, though I did notice the title-I just don't want to persue any more non-travel topics for now.

I'm not saying that it isn't a "good" offering... (though referring someone to travlang.com might be just as good or better, IMO) - - but someone asking for advice on a phrase book is (presumably) prepared to make a little more commitment than that. In any event, "rjs" deserves to have an answer to the question.

But of course, I think that the "fit" depends on the "foot", in this case - - not the "shoe".

"rjs" needs to just go and look.

For what it's worth, Fodors itself offers a (bit more) comprehensive list than you posted... at http://www.fodors.com/language

Hi Rex, I understand what you are saying however Bellastar did give a good example of some basic words that rjs or anyone else could use in Italy.
But of course a small book to be carried along would be great. And I sure hope rjs can find one that fits her needs.

And rjs, unless you are going to out of the way places most people in Italy that work in the tourist industry do know some English. But your knowing some polite Italian phrases is always a plus of course. Have a beautiful trip!

Talk about no good deed going unpunished. Bellastar did comment on the phrasebook issue, as well as taking the time to offer a list that was actually correct. What exactly is the problem with that?

As usual rex, you know best, and I bow to your ever superior intelligence. In the future, on this bored, I'll certainly heed your advice and try to keep my actual knowledge of languages to myself.

Better leave those word lists to ira, who does a better job of it.

No sense in trying to interact on this subject, obviously. I'm learning lately that you guys surely know how to drain the water from the lake!

Your opinions are so helpful and constructive, I'll keep them firmly in mind.

Rex, scusa la mia scortesia.
Se non puo capire bene questa frase, forse prova di trovarla sul www.fodors.com/language, OK?.

Sorry, LoveItaly and KT, I couldn't help it!

I don't want to get involved in a detailed discussion of whether Bellastar's list of words and phrases was or was not responsive to rjs's inquiry. (I was just so happy that she genuine Italian words, with correct spelling, and not italianized versions of French or Spanish words that someone unsuspecting person might not realize were incorrect.) But after all this discussion, did anyone notice that she actually DID post the name of a phrase book (Barrons Travelwise)? I don't know any Italian phrase books. I studied Italian in college, and I try to brush up a little right before a trip.

What I did before my first trip to Greece was buy a regular beginners Greek book (Greek Made Easy) and read through as many chapters as I could in three or four weeks, doing the exercises. Then I photocopied the glossary at the back of the book and wrote down some of the words and sentence fragments (e.g., Where is____)I thought I should remember. Then once there, I tried to pay attention and keep a list of the new words I was learning. When I went to Turkey, I had not prepared ahead of time, because until about six days before I left I was almost positive I was canceling because of a knee injury. But I bought a teach-yourself Turkish book at the last minute and took in on the plane with me to study, and I also tried to learn the useful Turkish phrases in one of my Turkish travel guides. Then as I went along, I wrote down all the words and phrases anyone taught me or that I figured out, writing them both in the real Turkish spelling, and in my phonetic spelling, with syllabic stress marked, so I'd remember how to pronounce them.

Based on my experience with Greek and Turkish, I'd suggest that if you have more than three weeks before your trip, you get a simple teach-yourself-Italian book and try to study it a little each day. If you have less than three weeks to go, just look at the useful phrases in whatever travel guides you are using, and if you are not taking the books with you, photocopy the language pages and take them with you to review on the flight to Italy.

<<But after all this discussion, did anyone notice that she actually DID post the name of a phrase book (Barrons Travelwise)?>>

I did <u>not</u>, and that was wrong. I apologize.

The best basic list I have seen is right here on Fodors--with pronunciations. Go to the home page and look under resources for a very good list. All you need is about 50 basic words or short phrases.

I'd recommend getting the Rick Steves Italian Phrasebook, available at amazon.com or your local bookstore. It's well sorted out by where you're going, and what you'll need, and it's nice and compact.

Also, don't do what I did in Italy -- I had just come from France, and it took me a day to learn coffee with milk was &quot;Cafe au lait&quot; (pronounced caffay-o-lay) so, like a DOPE I asked at the coffee stand, &quot;what is &quot;cafe au lait&quot; in Italian please?&quot; and the girl looked at me like I was stupid and said &quot;Cafe latte.&quot; DUH. And I'm from Seattle, Ground Zero of Starbucks.

Happy Travels,

Jules (hanging her head in shameful remembrance).

cmt gave you great advice, rjs, and to repeat, it's very good to practice some before you go.

If you drive, there are some publishers who offer tapes you can listen to while in your car-which helps with pronounciation and rhythm (something you really can't get from any book in quite the same way).

Sorry for the incomplete word list, I was inspired to add it to the thread after reading all the glaring mistakes in another, prior word list response to your question.

When I started out, I had my phrase book always handy, but many times was in situations where i didn't have time to leaf through it while trying to communicate, so I found that practicing a few things beforehand was useful. And remember, as another poster said, that many Italians in the travel industry do speak some English.

The phrasebook I mentioned (Barron's) was helpful to me as it's illustrated and organized very well with icon-driven section on everything from medical emergencies to menus, road signs, solo travel, and dealing with the post office. Rick steves' book might be as good or better, but I've never opened any of the Rick Steves books, so it's hard to know.

Now, a Siciian friend gave me a wonderful little phrase type book that I carry, which I love! It's an illustrated dictionary of hand-gestures (gestures can be almost as important as words in Italian) and it's a source of great fascination.

Have a wonderful trip, and enjoy your new words!

I agree about trying to get a feel for the rhythm of a language. That's why sometimes it is better to hear a language spoken fairly quickly, at a normal pace, even when you hardly know anything at all. You may need to learn words by reading them and listening to them being said slowly and carefully. But it is important to hear the language spoken in a natuiral anim,ated way, at normal speed, to hear the rhythm.

P.S. I think if you can catch on to the rhythm and imitate it somewhat, people will think you speak Italian (or other foreign language) better than you actually do. It gives the illusion of semi-fluency.

I have found these 3 phrasebooks particularly helpful:

Berlitz's Italian phrasebook

Langenscheidt's JIFFY PHRASEBOOK

and

The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Italian Phrases

Hi cmt,

I admit to misspelling a couple of words, but I did not intend to mislead.

Ira, almost all of the words were at least slightly misspelled. Italian ios not a rarely studied language; MANY people here know it to some degree, and some are even native speakers. So it would really better if people who do not know it, but just may have picked up a rough approximation of some words or know how to fudge a bit to be understood, would NOT try to answer questions about the language. People who don't know a single word of Italian may not realize when someone's just fooling without really knowing Italian.

Since everyone feels compelled to correct each other's spelling, I offer the following:
water = acqua, not &quot;aqua&quot;
waiter = cameriere, not &quot;cameriero&quot;
excuse me = mi scusa (informal)
= mi scusi (formal) These are in the imperativo, not present perfect.
In respnse to the original post, I second the vote for Langenscheidt's Jiffy Phrasebook. It is very complete and relatively small so it's easy to carry around. Another alternative is to go to any number of websites which have Italian phrases, and download them to your Palm Pilot.

here is a website with a download for basic Italian,

http://www.byki.com/free_lang_software.pl

I also have an ebook which I printed off and put in a soft binder to take with me, may be a bit big to carry around on excursions but useful to read and use as a refresher back at your accomodation. If you leave email I will gladly email to you.

forgot to say the byki site also runs through the words etc for you and is a great practice tool

rbrazil
thanks for these corrections.

And on a lighter note (hopefully), I just asked a friend from Rome about the
mi Scusi, mi scusa, and what she says- scusami, and she said the following:
&quot;Just tell them to say 'Squeeze me&quot; and everyone will understand!