Spanish Medical Providers
Oct 24th, 2017, 11:55 AM
#81
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"The US forms are infinitely more time consuming and infinitely more complicated."
Agreed. Our Swiss tax forms are easy to do. The U.S. forms are not. And FWIW, there is no standard "European" tax form, each country's forms are different, so blanket generalisations about "European" tax forms are meaningless (and I believe cathinjoetown lists current residence as south Florida).
I am surprised by the OP's assertion that getting Spanish citizenship means giving up U.S. citizenship. My husband is a dual citizen (Canadian/US). His mother had three (UK, Canadian, US). We are on the Swiss citizenship track and don't plan to give up our U.S. citizenship. I know lots of dual citizens and there's been no problem.
As for the myriad benefits of having U.S. citizenship abroad, well all I can say is that Swiss banks don't find it such a treat. And when my in-laws were hostages in Kuwait during the first Gulf War, the U.S. State Department was pretty useless. All the meaningful aid and counsel they received came from Canada. The State Department called us regularly but couldn't even get their facts straight about our relationship to his parents -- sometimes they referred to his aunt and uncle, other times to his brother and sister. We corrected them each time, but they would still get it wrong on the next call. MiL managed to leave through the intervention of the British and FiL got out with a planeload of German hostages (he had been a German national, but gave that up when he became Canadian).
Agreed. Our Swiss tax forms are easy to do. The U.S. forms are not. And FWIW, there is no standard "European" tax form, each country's forms are different, so blanket generalisations about "European" tax forms are meaningless (and I believe cathinjoetown lists current residence as south Florida).
I am surprised by the OP's assertion that getting Spanish citizenship means giving up U.S. citizenship. My husband is a dual citizen (Canadian/US). His mother had three (UK, Canadian, US). We are on the Swiss citizenship track and don't plan to give up our U.S. citizenship. I know lots of dual citizens and there's been no problem.
As for the myriad benefits of having U.S. citizenship abroad, well all I can say is that Swiss banks don't find it such a treat. And when my in-laws were hostages in Kuwait during the first Gulf War, the U.S. State Department was pretty useless. All the meaningful aid and counsel they received came from Canada. The State Department called us regularly but couldn't even get their facts straight about our relationship to his parents -- sometimes they referred to his aunt and uncle, other times to his brother and sister. We corrected them each time, but they would still get it wrong on the next call. MiL managed to leave through the intervention of the British and FiL got out with a planeload of German hostages (he had been a German national, but gave that up when he became Canadian).
Oct 24th, 2017, 12:15 PM
#83
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This cites the circumstances and exceptions for dual citizenship.
http://immigration.findlaw.com/citiz...tizenship.html
http://immigration.findlaw.com/citiz...tizenship.html
Oct 24th, 2017, 02:38 PM
#84
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WesserTee,
I live in Europe. Therfore, the tax forms I fill out in the Euorpean countyr to which I pay taxes are Eureopan -- and O cam sire that they are more complicated than the US tax forms I fill out. No one is claiming the European tax forms you fill out in Switzerland are.
Cathieinjoetown posted that she lived in Europe during a past period of time. (Maybe part of your difficulty with the US tax forms is English comprehension?
It is unsurprising that when a country invades another country, it loses leverage with the country they invaded in protecting its citizens. Most people asking questions on the Europe board aren't looking to live in any countries the US is likely to invade, and should think long and hard renouncing their US citizenship to become a citizen of a country in the European Union until the future of the European Union is more clear.
But I get it that the real point of your story was just to tell a dramatic anecdote.
I live in Europe. Therfore, the tax forms I fill out in the Euorpean countyr to which I pay taxes are Eureopan -- and O cam sire that they are more complicated than the US tax forms I fill out. No one is claiming the European tax forms you fill out in Switzerland are.
Cathieinjoetown posted that she lived in Europe during a past period of time. (Maybe part of your difficulty with the US tax forms is English comprehension?
It is unsurprising that when a country invades another country, it loses leverage with the country they invaded in protecting its citizens. Most people asking questions on the Europe board aren't looking to live in any countries the US is likely to invade, and should think long and hard renouncing their US citizenship to become a citizen of a country in the European Union until the future of the European Union is more clear.
But I get it that the real point of your story was just to tell a dramatic anecdote.
Oct 24th, 2017, 09:37 PM
#87
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imdonehere:
From the article you posted, this is the section that is relevant to my several U.S. friends who hold both U.S. passports and that of another country. Also my husband's situation reversed. Would this not be applicable to your SIL?
"The United States does not formally recognize dual citizenship. However, it also has not taken any stand against it, either legally or politically. Typically, no American will forfeit his or her citizenship by undertaking the responsibilities of citizenship in another country. This is true even if the responsibilities include traveling with a foreign passport, voting in another country's election, or running for and/or serving in public office of another country. In most cases, it is unimportant to U.S. authorities whether another country also claims you as a citizen."
wesswer, massimop--I lived in France from 2009 through 2015. France was our country of residence.
From the article you posted, this is the section that is relevant to my several U.S. friends who hold both U.S. passports and that of another country. Also my husband's situation reversed. Would this not be applicable to your SIL?
"The United States does not formally recognize dual citizenship. However, it also has not taken any stand against it, either legally or politically. Typically, no American will forfeit his or her citizenship by undertaking the responsibilities of citizenship in another country. This is true even if the responsibilities include traveling with a foreign passport, voting in another country's election, or running for and/or serving in public office of another country. In most cases, it is unimportant to U.S. authorities whether another country also claims you as a citizen."
wesswer, massimop--I lived in France from 2009 through 2015. France was our country of residence.
Oct 24th, 2017, 11:57 PM
#88
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yes, I was pushing back against the insinuation that you hadn't lived in Europe, or that since you were now not there, your view didn't count.
Going from lincasanova's post, providers like Blue Shield (GeoBlue for international coverage) as was mentioned above often do insure individuals in their later years who undertake missionary work or professional scholarly research for a year abroad. I am not saying that I know that the OP's SIL should pursue these things (or hasn't already) but for others thinking about relocating to Europe from the US who are looking for health insurance to obtain a visa, these are the kinds of paths that have worked for many people.
Going from lincasanova's post, providers like Blue Shield (GeoBlue for international coverage) as was mentioned above often do insure individuals in their later years who undertake missionary work or professional scholarly research for a year abroad. I am not saying that I know that the OP's SIL should pursue these things (or hasn't already) but for others thinking about relocating to Europe from the US who are looking for health insurance to obtain a visa, these are the kinds of paths that have worked for many people.
Oct 25th, 2017, 12:08 AM
#89
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Now that we learned, through the informed posters here, that one would have to pay for only one year before being able to obtain national health insurance, the situation appears to be more manageable for those seeking to relocate. As long as one can afford the high monthly fees for 12 months.
Oct 25th, 2017, 01:12 AM
#90
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ekscrunchy,
Correct to a point.
As has been pointed out, situations change, policies change and there isn't anything that can be guaranteed Europe-wide.
Spain and its policies and costs are the issues for the OP but other countries aren't necessarily the same although within the EU, healthcare is supposed to be a right and supposed to be applied fairly, at least for people from EU countries.
The only real authority is Spain.
Correct to a point.
As has been pointed out, situations change, policies change and there isn't anything that can be guaranteed Europe-wide.
Spain and its policies and costs are the issues for the OP but other countries aren't necessarily the same although within the EU, healthcare is supposed to be a right and supposed to be applied fairly, at least for people from EU countries.
The only real authority is Spain.
Oct 25th, 2017, 09:01 AM
#92
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https://www.expatica.com/es/healthca...in_576716.html
IT looks as if there are some restrictions - you either need to be paying taxes or in receipt of a governemnt pension.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...pecial-scheme/
Plus, it looks as if it doesn't include the cost of medications.
IT looks as if there are some restrictions - you either need to be paying taxes or in receipt of a governemnt pension.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/fa...pecial-scheme/
Plus, it looks as if it doesn't include the cost of medications.
Oct 25th, 2017, 12:46 PM
#93
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From the thread, linked above:
<If you are not eligible, you can choose to pay for medical treatment, take out private healthcare insurance, or in some regions, you can pay into a government-run health insurance scheme called the convenio especial in order to access free state healthcare in Spain. You need to have been registered on the padrón for 12 months, and pay a basic monthly fee (EUR 60 a month for the under 65s and EUR 157 for 65+).>
<If you are not eligible, you can choose to pay for medical treatment, take out private healthcare insurance, or in some regions, you can pay into a government-run health insurance scheme called the convenio especial in order to access free state healthcare in Spain. You need to have been registered on the padrón for 12 months, and pay a basic monthly fee (EUR 60 a month for the under 65s and EUR 157 for 65+).>
Oct 25th, 2017, 02:08 PM
#94
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I have three citizenships, including US citizenship. By birth, I'm an Irish citizen and a US citizen. I've acquired Italian citizenship. None of these interferes in any way with the others.
I believe that Spain requires that you renounce all other citizenships in order to become a Spanish citizen. That's where the problem lies. Italy doesn't require that, and Ireland doesn't even recognize renunciation of Irish citizenship.
My father was a dual citizen of Ireland and the UK when he emigrated to the US. At that time, the US required the renunciation of all other citizenships to become a US citizen. His renunciation was recognized by the UK; otherwise I'd have four citizenships. It wasn't recognized by Ireland, so I was born an Irish citizen.
It's now very rare that a person loses US citizenship. It used to be that serving in foreign military forces automatically cost you citizenship, but a case involving an Israeli/US joint citizen who served in the Israeli military resulted in that rule being overturned. The page linked by Imdonehere now says you can lose your citizenship by "Serving in the armed forces of a country which is engaged in hostilities against the United States."
There was also a case involving a prominent Mexican/US citizen whose US citizenship was revoked because of very public denunciation of the US government. She sued and won her citizenship back. That condition has also been modified now to say, "Committing an act of treason against the United States, or attempting or conspiring to overthrow the U.S. Government."
Besides, if they revoke your citizenship, they can't tax you anymore, and they wouldn't want that, would they?
I believe that Spain requires that you renounce all other citizenships in order to become a Spanish citizen. That's where the problem lies. Italy doesn't require that, and Ireland doesn't even recognize renunciation of Irish citizenship.
My father was a dual citizen of Ireland and the UK when he emigrated to the US. At that time, the US required the renunciation of all other citizenships to become a US citizen. His renunciation was recognized by the UK; otherwise I'd have four citizenships. It wasn't recognized by Ireland, so I was born an Irish citizen.
It's now very rare that a person loses US citizenship. It used to be that serving in foreign military forces automatically cost you citizenship, but a case involving an Israeli/US joint citizen who served in the Israeli military resulted in that rule being overturned. The page linked by Imdonehere now says you can lose your citizenship by "Serving in the armed forces of a country which is engaged in hostilities against the United States."
There was also a case involving a prominent Mexican/US citizen whose US citizenship was revoked because of very public denunciation of the US government. She sued and won her citizenship back. That condition has also been modified now to say, "Committing an act of treason against the United States, or attempting or conspiring to overthrow the U.S. Government."
Besides, if they revoke your citizenship, they can't tax you anymore, and they wouldn't want that, would they?
Oct 25th, 2017, 03:34 PM
#96
The Spanish requirement that you "renounce" your US citizenship does not mean that you actually lose it, although Spain will treat you purely as a Spanish citizen thereafter. In order to "renounce" your US citizenship with practical effect you would have to show up at a US embassy/consulate and sign a statement saying you were renouncing it.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tizenship.html
One of the expat forums has this:
"Basically, the lawyer I consulted confirmed that since April of 2014, Spain even addressed this issue of what it means to renounce previous citizenship and said that they require the oath, but they do not check to see whether you have actually renounced the other citizenship. " (http://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic...321995#3225379 )
There is an inconclusive discussion on that thread about the issue of holding two passports.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tizenship.html
One of the expat forums has this:
"Basically, the lawyer I consulted confirmed that since April of 2014, Spain even addressed this issue of what it means to renounce previous citizenship and said that they require the oath, but they do not check to see whether you have actually renounced the other citizenship. " (http://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic...321995#3225379 )
There is an inconclusive discussion on that thread about the issue of holding two passports.
Oct 25th, 2017, 05:08 PM
#98
The US government does NOT require you to renounce your citizenship on acquiring another. If you believe otherwise, please provide a citation other than the one you already provided which does not support your position, and say
"Typically, no American will forfeit his or her citizenship by undertaking the responsibilities of citizenship in another country."
See also: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html
"U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. <b>A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship.</b>" [Emphasis added.]
It is true that the Oath of Allegiance to the US includes renunciation of other allegiances, but it has no legal force. The people administering the oath know that. At my naturalization ceremony the speech/admonition after the oath mostly consisted of an attempted argument for actually giving up other nationalities. I feel sure the other attendees paid as much attention to it as I did - i.e. none - and I still retain my UK citizenship.
The US may not like dual nationality, but it does not prohibit it.
"Typically, no American will forfeit his or her citizenship by undertaking the responsibilities of citizenship in another country."See also: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html
"U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. <b>A U.S. citizen may naturalize in a foreign state without any risk to his or her U.S. citizenship.</b>" [Emphasis added.]
It is true that the Oath of Allegiance to the US includes renunciation of other allegiances, but it has no legal force. The people administering the oath know that. At my naturalization ceremony the speech/admonition after the oath mostly consisted of an attempted argument for actually giving up other nationalities. I feel sure the other attendees paid as much attention to it as I did - i.e. none - and I still retain my UK citizenship.
The US may not like dual nationality, but it does not prohibit it.
Oct 25th, 2017, 05:11 PM
#100
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Why would it be the US government if some people have dual citizenship? If it was, bvlenci couldn't have Italian citizenship, right?
My understanding is that US doesn't recognize dual, but if you're a US citizen that acquires citizenship to another country (like through marriage) you don't automatically lose your status as a US citizen. You'd have to renounce it formally, and you'd only do that if Spain (or your desired country) demanded that you do.
My understanding is that US doesn't recognize dual, but if you're a US citizen that acquires citizenship to another country (like through marriage) you don't automatically lose your status as a US citizen. You'd have to renounce it formally, and you'd only do that if Spain (or your desired country) demanded that you do.
