I certainly understood the "obligated" as ironic. But Americans are famously tone-deaf to irony, aren't they?

Also, when people already know certain things about foreign travel, such as tipping customs, why do they feel "obligated" to show off by sneering at advice that doesn't meet their superior knowledge standards?

Thanks, violetduck. I tend to agree.

Now you're jumping to conclusions. I grew up English. Give it a rest, this equine is buried.

Thank you for this report as i am sure it will be helpful to some.

Unfortunately you failed to answer the question as to whether or not Barcelona really DOES offer more than Madrid.

Dukey1, that was another thread, and I already made the comment that it's a personal thing. But since you asked, yes, we still think Barcelona has more to offer than Madrid, a lot more... We absolutely loved Barcelona, so for us Madrid was just another European city.

I really see no sense in arguing about this here, or elsewhere.

I certainly understood the "obligated" as ironic. But Americans are famously tone-deaf to irony, aren't they?
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Yes it is ironic that everyone missed the irony.

The hardest to learn in a foreign language is the nuance of humor, just ask the Brits.

It's been 10 years since I was in Europe, and am looking forward to going to Granada Spain in Oct for a wedding. MamaMia, thank you for some good, general tips which is exactly what I was looking for! Yes, some of it I already knew and some of it I had forgotten, but I've copied your whole post out for my husband who has never been overseas. As for your critics - well, I'd say something but then I'd be on the receiving end Thanks again

Mamamia2: Thank you for taking the time to put together this list. I think it has valuable info for the first time visitor, and I appreciate it.

Ignore the complainers.

I am in the camp with Ackislander and Isabel and a few others. (Maybe it's a Massachusetts thing. Insert emoticon.)

I saw no intent to criticize or judge the customs the OP describes. I did not take offense at the word "obligated", which seemed not to be a criticism in its context. I took the OP at her word that the experiences she described were her own and that she expected other people to find them useful for first time visitors, who may or may not have delved into the lengthy threads about tipping and pickpockets on this message board. Amazingly, not everybody has the desire to read this message board as compulsively as I do.

This is the reason I read trip reports. To learn about other people's experiences.

Of course when there are errors in fact or people have had different experiences, I expect them to chime in. But I don't see the OP as "arrogant" and "ranting", as some have said.

It is simply startling that people who know nothing are encouraging someone who knows a little. The lesson here, people are not as interested in facts and actual conditions as much as they are defending someone with whom they identify.

IMDonehere, you're hilarious. With much humility I'm willing to admit I'm the "someone who knows a little."... Yet I'm wondering, who are those people you deem to "know nothing"?

BTW, I'm also curious, what was the "incorrect information regarding tipping, where to buy stuff, and food" as you claimed here couple days ago (I already asked for your explanation but never got any answer)... What facts I posted here that were factually incorrect?

And based on what you've decided that we identified those pickpockets solely "arising from someone staring at her"?

I'm assuming the person who knows nothing is me.

Like Socrates, I'm fine with that.

Not you Nikki, at all. That is a problem with these boards and the Internet that sequential posts, often they do not refer to the post directly before them.

The people who know nothing are the ones who have not been to Spain but offer you encouragement.
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Let us start with pickpocketing. The sum and substance of your personal experience that someone stared at you. And????? So????

Tipping-you wrote "Surprisingly, unlike the US, they don't expect tips in Spain" Anyone who traveled anywhere knows this custom varies substantially form country to country. This means you did not read any guide book, had no previous knowledge, but still thought you could give hints to others.

Shopping-You wrote "What to buy: Nothing... Too expensive." This shows a complete lack of experience and knowledge but still that does not stop you from giving advice. I do not even know where to begin to counter this statement.

Food-you wrote: Spain (at least Madrid-Barcelona and the North), is all about: seafood, Tuna, Anchovy, cheese, ham (very little chicken, but they've never heard of Turkey as a bird or meat...)

Can you imagine that they do not have turkey, which of course is indigenous to the Americas. They also did not offer monkey brains. And I have had chicken in every corner of Spain. In fact one of the oldest and best known restaurants in Barcelona, Las Caracoles, is known for its roasted chickens (and snails) and if, things have not changed, they have spits with chickens facing the streets in the middle of El Barri Gòtic.

You also say in order to avoid the high cost have a bocadillo, which is true, but you omitted one of the great sources of inexpensive meals in Spain and of incredible variety-tapas. To visit Barcelona and Madrid, where tasca hopping is an Olympic sport, and not even include a passing mention of tapas, once again shows a lack of BASIC knowledge.

Also, the menu del dia is another highly visible and common way to avoid spending a great deal for a meal.


Mama, is that what you wanted? You did think your lack of knowledge or experience was an impediment for giving for giving advice to others.

BTW, I started off liking your post because you noticed how wifi was pronounced.

Pickpocketing -- "And????? So????" And the local guide (Goudi tour) who was on the metro with us, told us as we were leaving the station, that those 2 men were indeed pickpockets. That was good enough for us.

Tipping -- So you now don't claim I was posting "incorrect information," as you claimed before, you just complain I didn't "read any guide book, had no previous knowledge" thus you don't approve me giving hints to other...... To be honest, I don't know what reading guide books has to do with the FACT that in Spain tips are not an integral part of the bill.

Shopping -- You're right, I'm not as extensively experienced as you must be, nor does the typical tourist.... We traveled thru the same typical paths any tourist would travel thru, and that was the impression we got during our 3 weeks in Spain. Again, factually no incorrect information here.

Food -- "They also did not offer monkey brains" that was the one claim of yours I must fully agree with. So that's good news, IMDonehere, we finally agree with each other. "You also say in order to avoid the high cost have a bocadillo, which is true" --- Wow, you agree with me again, that's quite a relief...

So the bottom line is, you could not point to even one fact I posted in my report that was false or incorrect. What's bothering you is not something that I'm knowledgeable enough to analyze, so I will leave it at that.

Have a joyful weekend, IMDonehere.

Your advice reminds me of the old joke, "Besides that one incident, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?" You included what is important to you or noticed and then won't even acknowledge what you failed to notice or understand. Google the word solipsistic.

Of course you are right Mama, that is why you posted in the first place, but most adults consider omissions errors as well.

These boards have seen many like you who make one trip to some where and then make a career of it. I just hope the unknowing others seek other sources of advice, so they will a complete view of Spain.

IMDonehere, love the ref to solipsistic. Hey, can I adopt solipsism as a personal philosophical response to anything I have not personally experienced? LOL.

Sass

If applied correctly, you do not need my permission.

Of course. No permission needed, but wondered if that would be a correct application. Obviously, if it comes from my own head, it would be. Love words and language. Still laughing.

Mine was meant to ironic. Solipsism is the psychological forerunner to the selfie. If I shot myself I must exist. If I shot myself next to the Prado, then the Prado must exist.

For the benefit of others:

Solipsism
noun
1. Philosophy. the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.

2.extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one's feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.