Spain (Practical) Trip Report
Sep 16th, 2014, 05:35 AM
#43
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Besides the narrow expectation of language, there was other incorrect information regarding tipping, where to buy stuff, and food. There is a warning about pickpockets arising from someone staring at her?
One of the problems with these board is the insecurity of adults. If something is factually wrong, it is factually and I do not understand why other adults are so afraid of either being corrected or appreciating the correct information. While the board should be encouraging, it should not develop a reputation for misinformation. That is why Trip Advisor exists.
In real life, don't you correct people who are wrong? Did the people who are writing about Spain who someone called "nationalists" post any wrong info, then that too should be corrected.
If the OP's information is supposedly for first timers, then shouldn't it be right?
We have spent considerable time in Spain and visited almost region of the country except Valenica and found the Spanish to be most gracious when you attempt to speak their language as are the Italians but certainly not the Parisians.
One Spanish cousin speaks English so poorly she applied for faculty positions at Cambridge, Oxford, and U of Dublin. While one friend is a translator for texts to be used in universities.
Finally, this board has many experienced travelers and the 40 countries we have visited pales when compared to many here. After one two week stay most are wise enough to separate opinion from fact and wise enough not be accusatory because of personal misconceptions. I think the tone was the exact tone the OP wanted, one of being authoritative to give her writing more validity.
One of the problems with these board is the insecurity of adults. If something is factually wrong, it is factually and I do not understand why other adults are so afraid of either being corrected or appreciating the correct information. While the board should be encouraging, it should not develop a reputation for misinformation. That is why Trip Advisor exists.
In real life, don't you correct people who are wrong? Did the people who are writing about Spain who someone called "nationalists" post any wrong info, then that too should be corrected.
If the OP's information is supposedly for first timers, then shouldn't it be right?
We have spent considerable time in Spain and visited almost region of the country except Valenica and found the Spanish to be most gracious when you attempt to speak their language as are the Italians but certainly not the Parisians.
One Spanish cousin speaks English so poorly she applied for faculty positions at Cambridge, Oxford, and U of Dublin. While one friend is a translator for texts to be used in universities.
Finally, this board has many experienced travelers and the 40 countries we have visited pales when compared to many here. After one two week stay most are wise enough to separate opinion from fact and wise enough not be accusatory because of personal misconceptions. I think the tone was the exact tone the OP wanted, one of being authoritative to give her writing more validity.
Sep 16th, 2014, 06:08 AM
#44
"your own delivery, which wasn't particularly pacific."
But it wasn't intended to be. I find the attitude that of course people in other countries will speak English, tip according to American norms, and eat American type foods, deeply annoying. Perhaps that is not the OP's opinion, but it was certainly the opinion conveyed by her post.
But it wasn't intended to be. I find the attitude that of course people in other countries will speak English, tip according to American norms, and eat American type foods, deeply annoying. Perhaps that is not the OP's opinion, but it was certainly the opinion conveyed by her post.
Sep 16th, 2014, 06:34 AM
#45
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Thanks, ribeirasacra, for that info.
I also third akislander. OP's intentions were to be helpful.
And many Americans, anyway, wrongly assume that everone in Europe speaks fluent English.
Americans also tend to have this idea, albeit subconscious, that the rest of the world exists for us, whether to visit, get resources from, bring "freedom" to, etc. It can be a shock when you get somewhere and realize that place is getting along just dandy without your or your English, and they actually do things a little differently.
But I think that is what OP was trying go convey to first time visitors.
I also third akislander. OP's intentions were to be helpful.
And many Americans, anyway, wrongly assume that everone in Europe speaks fluent English.
Americans also tend to have this idea, albeit subconscious, that the rest of the world exists for us, whether to visit, get resources from, bring "freedom" to, etc. It can be a shock when you get somewhere and realize that place is getting along just dandy without your or your English, and they actually do things a little differently.
But I think that is what OP was trying go convey to first time visitors.
Sep 16th, 2014, 06:39 AM
#46
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Btw my knowledge, and application of, Spanish grammar is terrible.
I speak only in the present tense. People seemed to get what I was trying to say, however.
Taking Spanish 3 and 4 at the community college this fall, so hopefully that will improve.
I speak only in the present tense. People seemed to get what I was trying to say, however.
Taking Spanish 3 and 4 at the community college this fall, so hopefully that will improve.
Sep 16th, 2014, 06:44 AM
#47
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" Spanish nationalist"...LOL.
We travel to Spain every year , I speak Spanish, my husband does not. He has had no
problem communicating with hotel and restaurant employees from Barcelona to Bilbao.
Several years ago we visited the Tourist Office in San Remo ( Italy) . Believe it or not
the employee there could not speak two words of English. We encountered the same in
towns along that part of the Italian coast. I was glad I speak Italian , but I would have not expected
a pizza restaurant waiter in Imperia to speak other languages.
People around the world are not " obliged" to learn English (as the OP suggested) .
We travel to Spain every year , I speak Spanish, my husband does not. He has had no
problem communicating with hotel and restaurant employees from Barcelona to Bilbao.
Several years ago we visited the Tourist Office in San Remo ( Italy) . Believe it or not
the employee there could not speak two words of English. We encountered the same in
towns along that part of the Italian coast. I was glad I speak Italian , but I would have not expected
a pizza restaurant waiter in Imperia to speak other languages.
People around the world are not " obliged" to learn English (as the OP suggested) .
Sep 16th, 2014, 07:44 AM
#48
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OK, so here it is:
1. We LOVED Spain, we loved the people, we thought the country is run very well (mentioning the excellent roads, for instance), we became very friendly with those wonderful owners of the several B&Bs we stayed at... Two of those places, at the end of our stay, when we attempted to get a taxi, one to the Bilbao airport and the other to Barcelona's train station — they both insisted on driving us there...
2. I expressed NO COMPLAINTS about Spaniards' English capabilities ("be accusatory"???). I made a remark (which turned out to be supported by some others here too), and I was even humorous about it and offered an excellent, practical solution for it (Google Translate) that the locals even liked...
3. Not sure what "incorrect information regarding tipping" I posted here.... What's incorrect in claiming that Spaniards do not expect tips in restaurants, and that unlike the US there's no space for a tip on the bill?
I've been using this forum for well over 10 years now whenever planning a trip, mostly to Europe (including this latest one). I've appreciated the excellent information I received here, so upon returning I thought it appropriate to not only answer some of my own questions, and others', but also post a practical report with some valuable practical information that may assist other first-timers in Spain (some info can be applied to anywhere in Europe or even the world).
Seems like in the future I will keep using this place for getting information, but not to give any. Why get in trouble.
Some people have too much time on their hands and spend their days on forums just for the sake of arguing and showing how smarter they are than others.
1. We LOVED Spain, we loved the people, we thought the country is run very well (mentioning the excellent roads, for instance), we became very friendly with those wonderful owners of the several B&Bs we stayed at... Two of those places, at the end of our stay, when we attempted to get a taxi, one to the Bilbao airport and the other to Barcelona's train station — they both insisted on driving us there...
2. I expressed NO COMPLAINTS about Spaniards' English capabilities ("be accusatory"???). I made a remark (which turned out to be supported by some others here too), and I was even humorous about it and offered an excellent, practical solution for it (Google Translate) that the locals even liked...
3. Not sure what "incorrect information regarding tipping" I posted here.... What's incorrect in claiming that Spaniards do not expect tips in restaurants, and that unlike the US there's no space for a tip on the bill?
I've been using this forum for well over 10 years now whenever planning a trip, mostly to Europe (including this latest one). I've appreciated the excellent information I received here, so upon returning I thought it appropriate to not only answer some of my own questions, and others', but also post a practical report with some valuable practical information that may assist other first-timers in Spain (some info can be applied to anywhere in Europe or even the world).
Seems like in the future I will keep using this place for getting information, but not to give any. Why get in trouble.
Some people have too much time on their hands and spend their days on forums just for the sake of arguing and showing how smarter they are than others.
Sep 16th, 2014, 07:54 AM
#50
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The problem here is the OP's English language usage, the word "obligated", which is offensive. Hey, the Spanish Prime Minister, Rajoy, doesn't speak English ! Futhermore, he isn't "obligated" or obliged to do so. I'd venture to say that the defeat of the Spanish Armada at the hands of the English just may have something to do with Spaniards' reluctance to learn English. The OP should stick to visiting countries where English is spoken, if that's so important to her. She also might try Portugal where many people speak English because of the port trade with England and the fact that many Portuguese immigrated to the US and then retired back to Portugal.
Sep 16th, 2014, 08:15 AM
#52
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"Seems like in the future I will keep using this place for getting information, but not to give any. Why get in trouble.
Some people have too much time on their hands and spend their days on forums just for the sake of arguing and showing how smarter they are than others."
Seems some people don't mind when poster take time to answer several threads and numerous
questions ... a good way for them to " use this place". no? But if there are any comments from the posters the OP does not care for ..those same people are argumentative showboaters.
Some people have too much time on their hands and spend their days on forums just for the sake of arguing and showing how smarter they are than others."
Seems some people don't mind when poster take time to answer several threads and numerous
questions ... a good way for them to " use this place". no? But if there are any comments from the posters the OP does not care for ..those same people are argumentative showboaters.
Sep 16th, 2014, 08:55 AM
#54
If you intended "obligatory" to be humorous, I apologize for taking offense. But it has been demonstrated numerous times on this forum that irony does not come across well. We probably need an emoticon.
Sep 16th, 2014, 09:11 AM
#55
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BumbleB6 ***I speak only in the present tense. People seemed to get what I was trying to say, however.**** That is the best way. Even now after living here for a great deal of time it happens to me. Often get odd looks until they understand which tense I use. Spanish is far too complicated at times.
Sep 16th, 2014, 09:13 AM
#56
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Mamamia, good answer...our (mine included) smart*ss answers were probably based on the fact that your well intended tips were a bit too "Low Level" on the "Greatest Adventurers of All Times" forum. Next time try to mark the appropriate level and kind of traveler it´s intended for. BTW, English is not either my first tongue, so hope irony is correctly interpreted 
Sep 16th, 2014, 09:34 AM
#57
The use of humor was not obvious and it backfired making you look arrogant. Probably best to stay away from attempting to use humor in rhe duture. Good to know that you really don't feel the way it came across.
Sep 16th, 2014, 09:43 AM
#58
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Mamamia, I got your irony/humor the first time, when you said the Spaniards did not feel "obligated" to speak English.
Agreed, though, it can be hard to discern one's tone or intent from mere text against a blank page/screen.
Also agree people on here seem grumpy sometimes. Some replied in the morning, maybe they hadn't had their coffee yet? Oh - wait - you're not all in my time zone?!
And yes, ribeirasacra, verb tenses in Spanish are confusing! Someone once told me it would be easier than French. Pronunciation, maybe, but not the grammar!
Agreed, though, it can be hard to discern one's tone or intent from mere text against a blank page/screen.
Also agree people on here seem grumpy sometimes. Some replied in the morning, maybe they hadn't had their coffee yet? Oh - wait - you're not all in my time zone?!
And yes, ribeirasacra, verb tenses in Spanish are confusing! Someone once told me it would be easier than French. Pronunciation, maybe, but not the grammar!
Sep 16th, 2014, 10:58 AM
#59
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"Next time try to mark the appropriate level and kind of traveler it's intended for." But Mikelg, that's exactly what I did, in my very first sentence: "...geared as a practical one for anybody who's heading there for the first time..."...
