Husband and I (seniors in early 70s) travelling from Switzerland by train end Sept./beg. Oct. Have two weeks total. Would love to see Granada, Seville, Cordoba, Lisboa, Sintra. Prefer smaller towns and villages. More interested in people than beaches. Have seen thousands of museums and cathedrals, but still interested in what's really different and worthwhile seeing. Thought of taking Talgo Express one way and then return from Madrid, via Paris (could do overnight couchette). Any suggestions? Never really travelled in
Spain and Portugal; don't want to drive at this point. Thanks a lot for any help.
P.S.Prefer small inns or even B&Bs to fancy hotels.

That's an ambitious plan for such a short time. At best a day and a half per city you mention - are you sure?

Don't know how well you'll sleep on the Talgo, it gets into Barcelona (Franca) at 09:02, then it's still a long haul to whichever of the destinations you mentioned you want to hit first: A good ten hours or more to Cordoba, about 12 hours to Sevilla, ditto to Granada.

Why not fly from Basel to Lisbon (easyjet) or from Geneva (also easyjet)? Or from Zuerich with Air Berlin? There are any number of flights that will save you money and/or time and get you there in better shape, since you only have two weeks for a huge piece of geography.

Look at www.skyscanner.net.

Then backtrack from Lisbon - get your train tickets and itinerary there on the day of arrival.

For the Spanish trains look at www.renfe.es and be patient, learn how the site works, local trains or regional trains or long-distance trains are listed differently, it can be frustrating, and you need a good detailed map if you want to ferret out how to get to small towns by train - not easy in some cases.

Then fly from your last destination, or train it up to Madrid and fly from there.

Look also at www.vueling.es.

You'll be sitting on trains for half your vacation, so minimize the front- and backend to give yourselves more time in the middle.

You can go by sea from Genova (Italy) to Barcelona. The ships have cruise-ship-type facilities and are a lot more comfortable than an overnight train. See www.gnv.it.

I've taken the overnight train (Barcelona-Milan) a section of which services Switzerland.

The most comfortable accommodations are, IMO, the Gran Classe (www.elipsos.com) but in this particular case I would definitely fly from Switzerland to Spain vs. an overnight train and as far as you'll GET over night is Barcelona.

thanks for all the input; obviously we don't have a clue....originally we intended to rent a car in switzerland and drive to lisbon etc. etc.
so, what do you suggest as a workable itinerary including the most important sights?
thanks for any further suggestions.
lilo

With your short timeframe I'd say skip Lisbon unless you can ascertain that there are trains or other efficient and affordable ways to take you to Sevilla from Lisbon. Here are some possibles:

I see one combination of trains that I can't guarantee will work, but if you have a travel agent who knows his stuff, or you first get to Lisbon and make it a priority to look into this right away, maybe this will work:

Lisbon S. Apolonia dep. 22:01 nighttrain Lusitania, arr. Caceres 04:10, dep. Caceres regional train at 06:36, arr. Merida 07:38, dep. Merida 08:25 arr. Sevilla 13:15 or dep. Merida 09:45 arr. Sevilla 14:35.

You can fly cheaply from Switzerland to Lisbon, I see USD40 from both Basel and Geneva with easyjet. If you need to fly from there directly to the Southwest of Spain, I only see really expensive Iberia flights. Instead you might want to fly cheaply from Lisbon to Madrid and take the train, it's quite fast these days.

Lisbon - Madrid costs USD38 or so with Vueling airline, that's hard to beat, then the train from Madrid-Atocha to Sevilla takes as little as 3:13 hr if you take the fast one at 10:15, others take 6:33 and thereabouts.

Or skip Lisbon, fly from Zuerich with Air Berlin to Sevilla, I see fares of USD88 or so (one way, per person)! You need the day of arrival plus two days, three nights total, to do this wonderful city justice, minimum.

Then take the train to Cordoba, takes less than two hours. Spend two days / three nights.

Then take a train to Bobadilla and change to another for Granada (not many choices, this might eat up most of your day).

Make sure you book a long time ahead for your Alhambra visit. So that's another two nights at least.

Then to Madrid - takes most of a day, about six or seven hours.

And so it goes - use this site (and www.renfe.es but be patient and have a good map):

http://plannerint.b-rail.be/bin/quer...n?L=profi&

WK

thank you so much; this is all very helpful. am now thinking of maybe spending a few days at a small inn in the center of andalusia and take day trips from there to the places we'd like to see.
why do we need reservations long ahead to visit the alhambra in october?
lilo

why ? because part of the palace can only be visited for a few people each day so they give you an appointment. People visits the Alhambra all year long. You can go and visit without tickets in advance, but then you will have to join the file..and maybe you cannot visit the Nazari Palace.

thank you all--I'm learning little by little and am narrowing my itinerary constantly--I'm having fun doing this and appreciate all the input. happy travelling!
am now thinking of taking Talgo to Barc. train to Granada for two nigths, then train to Rondo for a few days of walking in the area and on to Lisbon , but not sure how to proceed from there yet.
Lilo

If doing all this by train, and with night trains, especially comfy, for night trains, hotel trains, you will find the Eurail Select Saverpass a great deal - a four-country pass if you include Portugal, along with spain, switzerland and france. Hop hotel train from Switzerland to Barcelona then hotel train to Granada and hotel train Madrid-Paris - if taking all these trains and railing around Switzerland a bit and Spain then this pass is a no-brainer. Sources with good info on passes: www.ricksteves.com (request his free European railpass brochure) and www.budgeteuropetravel.com (request their superb free European Planning & Rail Guide). For convenience book these night trains when you buy your pass - on some dates they can be very full - passholder fare pays for the train fare but with a pass you have to pay for the sleeping accommodations. For booking and passes i always recommend BETS (800-441-2387) over Rick Steves because Steves only sells passes but won't book any trains so you have to go thru another agent for the booking part and there are extra fees you pay that you won't if booking these trains when you buy your pass. Of course can book in Europe but often for convenience and peace of mind better to pay few extra bucks to book here. the Talgo hotel trains are very very nice.

Again, I would not necessarily take the train from Barcelona to Granada. I recently flew this segment on a very cheap Iberia one way fare and I would strongly suggest you look at that possibility: I hr and 5 minutes or so vs. basically an all-day or all-night trip.

thank you--great info. love riding trains--good link to check out time tables etc.

Intrepid1
thank you--am considering flying from B to Granada--is train trip not interesting? no good scenery? what about flying into Madrid from CH and then taking train south? love to sit an watch beautiful scenery roll by. any info welcome.
Lilo

Flying from CH to Madrid and then taking the train to Lisbon would be a good idea.

WK

You don't need to reserve your tickets for the Alhambra in advance. My husband and I were there last September and we just got up early and were at the Alhambra by 8:00 a.m. We waited in line for about 15 minutes total, and we got into the Nazari (?) Palace at 9:30. I imagine there would be fewer people in October, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I agree that your original itinerary is much too packed. Having a base in Andalusia and doing day trips is a great idea. Seville would make a great base. It's a gorgeous, fun city and is close to Cordoba, Jerez, Cadiz, Sanlucar de Barrameda. We did the drive from Barcelona to Granada and it took a total of 10 hours over 2 days.

thank you for the info re alhambra; just love all the imput i'm getting. have bought tickets to fly from malpensa, italy to lisbon--plan to stay in that area for about a week (maybe in Sintra?)then, somehow go to Ronda, Spain for a few days, followed by two nights in Granada, and back to Lisbon for the return flight. have not yet figured out how this is going to work--any suggestions?
thanks again, lilo