THR

Hi all,

I'll try not to make this a dreaded Spain or Italy comparison, because I know they're both great destinations. Unfortunately, however, we have a choice to make between the two for our upcoming trip in June.

As we only have 14 full days we don't think it's really achievable to do two countries.

So, current thinking, and choices are:

Italy:
May 31st: Fly into Rome (Sydney --> Rome); just a do nothing day (arrive around 1pm)
June 1st: Rome
June 2nd: Rome
June 3rd: Rome
June 4th: Rome
June 5th: Rome
June 6th: Train to Naples, pick up car and drive to Amalfi
June 7th: Amalfi (staying in Minori, Positano, Sorrento; somewhere)
June 8th: Amalfi (travelling to places like Capri, other parts of the coast)
June 9th: Amalfi (Pompeii?)
June 10th: Amalfi
June 11th: Amalfi
June 12: Amalfi
June 13th: Amalfi
June 14th: Amalfi
June 15th: Return car to Naples, train back to rome
June 16th: Leave from Rome (Rome --> Sydney).

Essentially we will spend a lot of time in two places (as last year we went to Florence, the Cinque Terre; although it might be nice to get to Venice this time, perhaps).

For Spain, we were thinking:
May 31st: Fly into Madrid (Sydney --> Madrid); just a do nothing day
June 1st: Madrid
June 2nd: Madrid
June 3rd: Madrid
June 4th: Madrid / Toledo
June 5th: Cordoba
June 6th: Seville
June 7th: Seville
June 8th: Seville
June 9th: Seville
June 10th: Granada
June 11th: Granada
June 12: San Sebastian
June 13th: San Sebastian
June 14th: San Sebastian
June 15th: Madrid
June 16th: Leave from Madrid (Madrid --> Sydney).

The alternative is to fly to Barcelona instead of Madrid; unfortunately we're really going from one end of the country to the other in Spain, but I really would like to go South, and to San Sebastian.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated

nytraveler

I think either trip is perfectly doable - it really depends on what you want to see most.

June will be VERY hot in southern Spain - perhaps 100 - while Italy will probably be somewhat cooler - but still hot and very possibly humid. (For Spain I would take day away from Madrid and drive from the south to SS - possibly stropping in Merida, which has great roman ruins.

If it were me I would do italy - since we wo;t do southern Spain after April- it's just too hot to be bearable - but I can't stand hot weather. In any case be sure you lodging and car (if you rent) have good AC. In Spain get hotels only with pools.

THR

That's a long way to drive, is it not? ~ 900km (so a couple of days driving). Is it a good drive between the two (I roughly expect this is how you go: http://goo.gl/maps/pbAsD ).

Thanks for the feedback. We're not too bothered about the heat; it can get hot here in summer too.

I think it's partly a choice between a really relaxing holiday in Italy, vs. probably a busier holiday is Spain, with more places and sightseeing.

Will definitely research Merida now, thanks!

CathyM

I'm very biased towards Spain (Italy was my favorite before I visited Spain) so if hot weather doesn't bother you then I'ddothe Spain trip. Whille Extremadura (Merida, Trujillo, Zafra, Caceres) is wonderful in order to do this you'd have to take time out of the itinerary somewhere and it appears that you are not the type of person that ones to be rushed. I'd probably stick with what you've outlined and rely on public transportation.

A couple of notes (on Spain):

Madrid - you could probably add in a daytrip to Segovia or reduce a day

Cordoba - I'd either visit en route from Madrid to Sevilla or take a day from Madrid andn spend 2 nights in Cordoba. I personally hate 1-nighters and Cordoba is quite a nice city besides the main tourist site

Sevilla - 4 nights is good or you could add a night if you reduce Madrid by 1 or do Cordoba as a daytrip. With 4 nights you'd have time for one daytrip (Cadiz, Jerez, Arcos, Carmona, Osuna, etc...)

Granada - 2 nights is good;you can take the bus or train from Sevilla

San Sebastian - I'd definately fly between Granada and San Sebastian as it would be a horrendously long travel day. If I only added time in one place it would be San Sebastian - whether it be dropping the overnight in Cordoba or reducing Madrid by one night. San Sebastian is gorgeous and you'll have at least a 1/2 day eaten up by travel and only 3 nights.

paradeofmonkeys

As noted the real problem with your Spanish trip is the leg between Granada or Sevilla and San Sebastian. There are very few, if any, direct flights, and if you do not get one you will waste one day just traveling within Spain.

And as noted the Amalfi Way is notorious for traffic.

THR

Thanks Cathy for that information. I'll reconsider the length of time we have in Madrid and, as you say, may reduce it by a day. I agree with you on the one nighters; not a huge fan of them myself.

I was anticipating hiring a car in Seville to do some trips and drive to Granada also (dropping it off in Granada, probably, if we do fly to San Sebastian).

THR

Thanks paradeofmonkeys. I just did a quick check and it appears it is easy enough to fly from Sevilla to Bilbao, rather than to San Sebastian directly itself.

It's possible to fly from Granada - but the short flights (~ 3 hours, with a stop in Madrid) are very expensive (on Iberia); whereas from Sevilla to Bilbao, they're much cheaper - and shorter.

Logistics!

CathyM

The issue with renting a car for the drive from Sevilla to Granada is that you really don't have much time for exploring. With only 4 nights in Sevilla and 2 in Granada you'll want to get to Granada to enjoy the city. If you could find a couple of nights to take away from somewhere else then I'd consider staying in the white villages area and exploring. But just to drive for the day - I'd personally just take the bus or train. The "problem" is that to find a couple of days for the white villages means taking from somewhere else If anything I'd be adding to the Basque Country where the weather will be more moderate. If you fly into Bilbao from Granada I'd definately recommend at least a daytrip to Bilbao....and with your current plan of just 3 nights in San Sebastian it cuts time from this city....which is why I'd probably add the time in the Basque Country. You could even stay a couple of nights in Bilbao. OR rent a car in Bilbao and explore the coast to San Sebastian staying a couple of nights in a fishing village. Personally I'd prefer this versus the white villages.

THR

Sacrifices, sacrifices. So many difficult decisions But the planning and researching is half the fun.

Thanks again for your wisdom Cathy. On reflection, I think more and more I'd prefer to go to Spain this trip. Now to finesse the itinerary a little!

goldenautumn

The Basque Coast of Spain is so beautiful (tne French Basque Coast too) that I would bag the Amalfi in a heart beat and go there. The food is so fantastic -- I'm sure you've heard -- that it is head and shoulders above every other place you are considering other than Madrid.

It will be so hot around Sevilla and Granada that I am not sure that even the most heat-tolerant people can find a way to enjoy the big time sightseeing itinerary you have -- especially if you try to do it by train.

Were it me -- and I realize it is not -- I would fly to Madrid -- take day trips to Toledo and Cordoba -- but after that rent a car and head for the Basque Country and the Rioja Wine country, or maybe an ambitious driving loop to see something of the Picos di Europa and back to Burgos before heading to the airport in Madrid.

danon

In my early 30s, I visited Andalusia - Seville, Cadiz and Granada - in mid AUGUST ( by bus!)...it was hot all right, but I ,and many other tourists ,managed just fine.
AC hotel is a must.
Like Cathy, I never get "enough " of Spain.

amer_can

If you are driving goldenautumn's ambitious route is the one I'd go for. The Basque area and SS are awesome and Burgos shouldn't be missed. The Picos di Europa will be very scenic. Driving in the part of Spain isn't hard at all. Hotel Theatro (just outside the old town walls and on the river) in Burgos has reasonable underground parking. the rooms are modern and price reasonable.. but watch out for the bottom(foot) of the bed corners are VERY SHARP!!! That is if you stay there.

THR

All of your responses and the information is fantastic. I'm absorbing it all and going to spend a busy night researching!

paradeofmonkeys

Bilbao is just an hour by car or bus from San Sebastian.

We have spent considerable time in Spain and have been to Italy a number of times. Whatever you choose, you will enjoy the trip.

THR

So, this is now my current working itinerary. Thanks all for your input so far!

Date Location
30-May-13 Leave Sydney
31-May-13 Arrive Madrid
01-Jun-13 Madrid
02-Jun-13 Madrid
03-Jun-13 Segovia
04-Jun-13 Toledo
05-Jun-13 Sevilla (via day trip at Cordoba)
06-Jun-13 Sevilla
07-Jun-13 Sevilla
08-Jun-13 Granada
09-Jun-13 Granada
10-Jun-13 San Sebastian
11-Jun-13 San Sebastian
12-Jun-13 San Sebastian
13-Jun-13 Picos de Europa
14-Jun-13 Picos de Europa
15-Jun-13 Leave via Madrid

goldenautumn

Since I'm not a huge fan of day trips, especially in hot weather and especially in Spain where towns are so lively in the evening and so dead during the day, I might look into putting Segovia and perhaps even Toledo after the Picos de Europa, and driving myself to Madrid airport.

Again, subjective call here, but I am not as big a fan of Sevilla as I am other places in Spain, so I would probably skip it in order to have more time in the Picos, or even an overnight in Cordoba.

So my trip would look more like this:


31-May-13 Arrive Madrid
01-Jun-13 Madrid
02-Jun-13 Madrid
03-Jun-13 Cordoba
04-Jun-13 Cordoba-pick up car rental drive to Granada
05-Jun-13 Granada
06-Jun-13 Granada>San Sebastian
07-Jun-13 San Sebastian
08-Jun-13 San Sebastian
09-Jun-13 Picos de Europa
10-Jun-13 Picos de Europa
11-Jun-13 Picos de Europa
12-Jun-13 Segovia
13-Jun-13 Toledo
14-Jun-13 Leave via Madrid
15-Jun-13 And you've got an extra day to stick somewhere! I'd probably give it to a drive along the Basque coast or one more night in Madrid before leaving for Cordoba.

You don't want a car in San Sebastian. You want to stay right in the heart of town so you can enjoy the evening scene and not drive back to your hotel.

I'm not a fan of Bilbao in anyway, but if you make the apparently obligatory stop at the Guggenheim , do not miss Richard Serra's sculptures inside.

Anyway, that's what I'd do but your itinerary might work much better for you.

bilboburgler

Well I'm glad you dropped that boring Italian trip for the more interesting Spanish one.

The Picos are a strange area and much under-explored with some difficult decisions to be made on road to drive up and when to go walking. I think you could do with more research on this that just about anywhere else on your trip. Given the heat it may also be the most pleasant part of your tour though I found that accommodation fills up as Spaniards use the mountains for their holidays.

mamcalice

I would choose Italy in a minute but not your particular itinerary unless you want a very relaxed time on the Amalfi Coast.

Given the two itineraries, I would choose Spain. I like golden autumn's first itinerary which includes Seville - a must in our book. We spent 3 days in Seville in late September when the temp. was 100 and loved every minute.

CathyM

THR-
Regarding your latest itinerary: Would the visits to Segovia and Toledo be Daytrips from Madrid or 1-nighters? I really think you're shortchanging Sevilla. Personally I love Sevilla - it's enchanting. I'd take a day from Madrid or skip the Picos and add the time to Sevilla. About the Picos - they are beautiful but I'd skip and add the time to Sevilla or San Sebastian - or take the 2 days and visit La Rioja to tour some bodegas or add Cadiz or Malaga in Andalucia.

Is ther a chance you could fly a skyteam alliance airline? If so you may be able to take a flight from Bilbao to,Paris or London and return home this way. It would eliminate backtracking to Madrid.

danon

Madrid is a great city.... small towns like Toledo and Segovia are lovely. but
at night - I prefer Madrid.
I am not sure abbot Picos either....
Bilbao or more time in Andalusia????
I like Malaga a lot....also it is on the sea !