Spain: lesser known stops I could make from my planned cities?
May 18th, 2003 | 02:25 AM
#1
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Spain: lesser known stops I could make from my planned cities?
I'm going to spend three or four weeks in Spain in July. I will be getting around on public transportation. Right now my planned spots are basically the Places You Have To See in Spain... but I'm also looking for the smaller towns and atmospheric places that escape the average tourist's attention. Keep in mind I won't have a car!
My planned stops at the moment are: Girona, Barcelona, Pamplona, San Sebastian, Salamanca, Madrid, Cordoba, Sevilla, Granada. So please limit your replies to these areas.
Lastly, what to people think of Segovia vs Avila vs Toledo as a Madrid day trip?
Thanks.
My planned stops at the moment are: Girona, Barcelona, Pamplona, San Sebastian, Salamanca, Madrid, Cordoba, Sevilla, Granada. So please limit your replies to these areas.
Lastly, what to people think of Segovia vs Avila vs Toledo as a Madrid day trip?
Thanks.
May 18th, 2003 | 02:46 AM
#2
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
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Why Girona? There isn't much to see there.
Barcelona: Sitges is nice beach laid back place about 40 mins /train
Pamplona: great city but rather quiet city except for the San Fermin week.
San Sebastian: v. happening city. GO to Bilbao's Guggenheim Museum, and nothing else.
Salamanca: love it but gets v. touristy. Would suggest day trip to Segovia over Avila. But if you ahve a car you can do them both in the same day and visit El Escorial on the way from Madrid.
Madrid: Toledo.
Cordoba, Sevilla, Granada: Visit Ronda.
I don't know why you aren't hiring a car, but I would recommend it as you will see so much more and it's not dificult driving in Spain. Though the bus network in Spain is good and quicker than the train.
Enjoy!
Barcelona: Sitges is nice beach laid back place about 40 mins /train
Pamplona: great city but rather quiet city except for the San Fermin week.
San Sebastian: v. happening city. GO to Bilbao's Guggenheim Museum, and nothing else.
Salamanca: love it but gets v. touristy. Would suggest day trip to Segovia over Avila. But if you ahve a car you can do them both in the same day and visit El Escorial on the way from Madrid.
Madrid: Toledo.
Cordoba, Sevilla, Granada: Visit Ronda.
I don't know why you aren't hiring a car, but I would recommend it as you will see so much more and it's not dificult driving in Spain. Though the bus network in Spain is good and quicker than the train.
Enjoy!
May 18th, 2003 | 03:15 AM
#3
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Three-four weeks in July's Spain, planning to stop in nine major cities and in smaller towns while depending only on Spain's public transportation; this is a trip that needs to be planned very carefully.
You asked for suggested smaller towns and Spain has many scenic and beautiful places. NEAR MADRID: I particularly enjoyed Consuegra: windmills country in La Mancha Region. I worked in an enviromental project in Cifuentes and thought it was a beautiful town. NEAR SALAMANCA: Ciudad Rodrigo is a walled city not crowded with visitors and worth a stop.
Although somewhat larger cities, I also thought Leon and Burgos had the samll town feeling and were not crowded cities at all. Then again, you are going on July, high tourist season.
As far as to choose between Segovia, Avila, and Toledo, if I had three-four weeks in Spain I wouldn't miss neither three of them. You can combine Avila and Segovia on one daytrip and have another morning in Toledo, if crunch for time. I am not a huge fan of pre-packaged tours, but a day tour to Segovia and Avila takes care of transportation, tickets & guided visits. You can always train/bus from Salamanca to Segovia on to Madrid. Ideally, you are better off visiting these towns when the crowds are gone, which is late afternoon. While Toledo is a spectacular place to visit, I was totally blown away by the Roman Aqueduct in Segovia and the sights of the medieval walls in Avila (you think they went up last week!).
If set on visiting smaller towns, English is not widely spoken so brush on your Spanish, you will need it.
Also, seek out Maribel's posts on Spain. She is a great contributor who often mentions smaller towns and places which sound to be what you are looking for. I also recommend you check other forums such as madridman.com and the Lonely Planet.com. Have a great trip!
You asked for suggested smaller towns and Spain has many scenic and beautiful places. NEAR MADRID: I particularly enjoyed Consuegra: windmills country in La Mancha Region. I worked in an enviromental project in Cifuentes and thought it was a beautiful town. NEAR SALAMANCA: Ciudad Rodrigo is a walled city not crowded with visitors and worth a stop.
Although somewhat larger cities, I also thought Leon and Burgos had the samll town feeling and were not crowded cities at all. Then again, you are going on July, high tourist season.
As far as to choose between Segovia, Avila, and Toledo, if I had three-four weeks in Spain I wouldn't miss neither three of them. You can combine Avila and Segovia on one daytrip and have another morning in Toledo, if crunch for time. I am not a huge fan of pre-packaged tours, but a day tour to Segovia and Avila takes care of transportation, tickets & guided visits. You can always train/bus from Salamanca to Segovia on to Madrid. Ideally, you are better off visiting these towns when the crowds are gone, which is late afternoon. While Toledo is a spectacular place to visit, I was totally blown away by the Roman Aqueduct in Segovia and the sights of the medieval walls in Avila (you think they went up last week!).
If set on visiting smaller towns, English is not widely spoken so brush on your Spanish, you will need it.
Also, seek out Maribel's posts on Spain. She is a great contributor who often mentions smaller towns and places which sound to be what you are looking for. I also recommend you check other forums such as madridman.com and the Lonely Planet.com. Have a great trip!
May 18th, 2003 | 03:55 AM
#4
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Joined: Mar 2003
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I'm not renting a car because I'm on a budget and that is too expensive (I'm backpacking for the summer). Girona because I have a friend there.
Mairan:
First off, thanks, that is a lot of good info. I have my itinerary planned out rather well I believe (4 nights in Barcelona, 1 Pamplona, 3 San Sebastian, 2 Salamanca, 3 Madrid, 1 Cordoba, 3 Sevilla, 3 Granada, 3 Girona). That's 23 nights and leaves me with 3-4 extra days to add in. I'll look into all of your ideas! As far as language difficulties, I speak Italian, so I should be able to get by OK.
More thoughts are very welcome.
Mairan:
First off, thanks, that is a lot of good info. I have my itinerary planned out rather well I believe (4 nights in Barcelona, 1 Pamplona, 3 San Sebastian, 2 Salamanca, 3 Madrid, 1 Cordoba, 3 Sevilla, 3 Granada, 3 Girona). That's 23 nights and leaves me with 3-4 extra days to add in. I'll look into all of your ideas! As far as language difficulties, I speak Italian, so I should be able to get by OK.
More thoughts are very welcome.
May 18th, 2003 | 04:27 AM
#6
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RAR, don't worry about mis--spelling my name, most people called me Maria! No sweat.
If you speak Italian, you will get by better than if you only speak English, specially it will help you understand written Spanish. One suggestion, look into taking one day off Granada and add to Madrid, so you can day tour from there to Segovia/Avila/Toledo. I truly would hate to see you miss any one of them.
I recommended a book years ago in this forum called: "Traveler's Tales: Spain". I still think is one of the best compilation of travelers (nonfiction) stories that I ever read. Strongly recommend you read this book (Amazon.com has used copies on sale for about $4/each). It will provide you with first-account ideas for the smaller towns, out of the way places you are looking for.
Have a great trip! Take tons of pictures! Keep a journal.
If you speak Italian, you will get by better than if you only speak English, specially it will help you understand written Spanish. One suggestion, look into taking one day off Granada and add to Madrid, so you can day tour from there to Segovia/Avila/Toledo. I truly would hate to see you miss any one of them.
I recommended a book years ago in this forum called: "Traveler's Tales: Spain". I still think is one of the best compilation of travelers (nonfiction) stories that I ever read. Strongly recommend you read this book (Amazon.com has used copies on sale for about $4/each). It will provide you with first-account ideas for the smaller towns, out of the way places you are looking for.
Have a great trip! Take tons of pictures! Keep a journal.
May 18th, 2003 | 07:50 AM
#7
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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RAR,
Ditto to what Maira has advised you about the planning. And as she suggests, I would do both Toledo and Avila/Segovia, not either or. And since you'll rely on public transp., I'd invest in the Lonely Planet's region specific guides, tailor-made for backpacker. I'd first try to find in your public library their Catalunya and the Costa Brava, Madrid and Andalucia guides and see if they're right for you. Also the '03 Let's Go: Spain/Portugal is invaluable for how to get around.
And I'd also take a day away from Granada and add to Madrid.
As an extra day trip from Madrid to a lesser known jewel, I would substitute Chinchon for Consuegra. since Consuegra would be quite a stretch by public transportation from Madrid, plus extremely hot in July (I have family who lives in la Mancha-it's an oven in summer). Consuegra is best accessed from Toledo by car, and you'd need to hire a taxi to take you up to the windmills and castle (we were just there). We also just re visited cute little Chinchon, and it's an easy 50 min. bus trip from Madrid. And if it's a Sat., you just might happen upon a bullfight in the
highly photogenic, irregular shaped Plaza Mayor.
(If you need specific details on how to do any of these day trips, I'll post the info here).
Although I'm not a fan either of canned bus tours, in your case, I'd take a Julia, Gray Line/Trapsatur or Pullman Tour Avila-Segovia excursion, just for simplicity's sake. You can't do both by train on the same day. (By bus it's possible from Madrid to Segovia in morning then in afternoon to Avila, then returning to Madrid by train from Avila, but quite tricky and makes for a long, very tiring day). I'd just take the tour.
With your current itinerary, I wouldn't try to fit in Leon and Burgos, but from Salamanca you could easily fit in Ciudad Rodrigo but medieval La Alberca I find even more charming (via organized bus excursion from Salamanca-the drive down through the Sierra de Francia is spectacular).
From Salamanca, Madrid is only a 2 hr. 15 min. bus ride on Auto Res and bus, rather than train, is the best way to go. (Salamanca-Madrid trains don't stop in Segovia but rather in Avila)
From elegant and beautiful San Sebastian, I'd take the bus to nearby Hondarribia, near the French border. It's that picture postcard-perfect, quintessentially Basque fishing village (and our home for a week every summer) with an atmospheric, monument filled Old Quarter you'll find delightful. I wouldn't miss it!
From Sevilla you can bus to Carmona, a "little Sevilla" or even bus/train down to Jerez de la Frontera or Cadiz (or both), but I think you'll be kept very busy during your 3 Sevilla days with all city's own attractions!
You may find 3 days in Girona just 1 too many. From Girona you can take a train to Figueres (Dali museum) or a SARFA bus to Tossa del Mar, but Tossa will be packed to the rafters in July!
If you hit Pamplona from July 6-14, you'll be in the thick of the Running of the Bulls, San Fermin festival (where I work every summer). It's sheer madness, and accomodations extremely exp! Do you plan to visit Pamplona then?
Hope this gives you a few more ideas.
Ditto to what Maira has advised you about the planning. And as she suggests, I would do both Toledo and Avila/Segovia, not either or. And since you'll rely on public transp., I'd invest in the Lonely Planet's region specific guides, tailor-made for backpacker. I'd first try to find in your public library their Catalunya and the Costa Brava, Madrid and Andalucia guides and see if they're right for you. Also the '03 Let's Go: Spain/Portugal is invaluable for how to get around.
And I'd also take a day away from Granada and add to Madrid.
As an extra day trip from Madrid to a lesser known jewel, I would substitute Chinchon for Consuegra. since Consuegra would be quite a stretch by public transportation from Madrid, plus extremely hot in July (I have family who lives in la Mancha-it's an oven in summer). Consuegra is best accessed from Toledo by car, and you'd need to hire a taxi to take you up to the windmills and castle (we were just there). We also just re visited cute little Chinchon, and it's an easy 50 min. bus trip from Madrid. And if it's a Sat., you just might happen upon a bullfight in the
highly photogenic, irregular shaped Plaza Mayor.
(If you need specific details on how to do any of these day trips, I'll post the info here).
Although I'm not a fan either of canned bus tours, in your case, I'd take a Julia, Gray Line/Trapsatur or Pullman Tour Avila-Segovia excursion, just for simplicity's sake. You can't do both by train on the same day. (By bus it's possible from Madrid to Segovia in morning then in afternoon to Avila, then returning to Madrid by train from Avila, but quite tricky and makes for a long, very tiring day). I'd just take the tour.
With your current itinerary, I wouldn't try to fit in Leon and Burgos, but from Salamanca you could easily fit in Ciudad Rodrigo but medieval La Alberca I find even more charming (via organized bus excursion from Salamanca-the drive down through the Sierra de Francia is spectacular).
From Salamanca, Madrid is only a 2 hr. 15 min. bus ride on Auto Res and bus, rather than train, is the best way to go. (Salamanca-Madrid trains don't stop in Segovia but rather in Avila)
From elegant and beautiful San Sebastian, I'd take the bus to nearby Hondarribia, near the French border. It's that picture postcard-perfect, quintessentially Basque fishing village (and our home for a week every summer) with an atmospheric, monument filled Old Quarter you'll find delightful. I wouldn't miss it!
From Sevilla you can bus to Carmona, a "little Sevilla" or even bus/train down to Jerez de la Frontera or Cadiz (or both), but I think you'll be kept very busy during your 3 Sevilla days with all city's own attractions!
You may find 3 days in Girona just 1 too many. From Girona you can take a train to Figueres (Dali museum) or a SARFA bus to Tossa del Mar, but Tossa will be packed to the rafters in July!
If you hit Pamplona from July 6-14, you'll be in the thick of the Running of the Bulls, San Fermin festival (where I work every summer). It's sheer madness, and accomodations extremely exp! Do you plan to visit Pamplona then?
Hope this gives you a few more ideas.
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May 18th, 2003 | 08:27 AM
#8
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Joined: Mar 2003
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I'm certainly going to pick up a Spain guidebook... do you happen to prefer Lonely Planet/Let's Go/Rough Guides? I generally prefer Lonely Planets.. but my Sicily Rough Guide was really great.
The tour idea (I hate them too) does sound like a good idea. I will look into those when I'm there. An extra day (or two) in Madrid is probably necessary yes.
Thanks for the Salamanca bus info. I thought I was looking at a 4 hour train ride.
My 3 days in Girona are to visit a couple friends who live there. Thus I don't think I'll be getting bored
Pamplona's madness I'm aware of. Not sure what I'm doing about that just yet. If I do go it'll be as a day-overnight trip from San Sebastian, and I won't need a place to stay since I'll be up and partying (and returning to San Sebastian in a walking-dead state the next day I'm sure) 
The little towns sound great. Especially the Basque one you mentioned, the Basque region really has me interested. Lastly, what do you think of spending a night Trujillo? I gather I could bus there (2.5 hours) from Madrid, and then go from there to Cordoba (bus to Toledo, AVE to Cordoba). Sound plausible? Keep in mind my total days on the trip isn't locked in concrete, so I can add a few days where needed.
Thanks
The tour idea (I hate them too) does sound like a good idea. I will look into those when I'm there. An extra day (or two) in Madrid is probably necessary yes.
Thanks for the Salamanca bus info. I thought I was looking at a 4 hour train ride.
My 3 days in Girona are to visit a couple friends who live there. Thus I don't think I'll be getting bored
Pamplona's madness I'm aware of. Not sure what I'm doing about that just yet. If I do go it'll be as a day-overnight trip from San Sebastian, and I won't need a place to stay since I'll be up and partying (and returning to San Sebastian in a walking-dead state the next day I'm sure) The little towns sound great. Especially the Basque one you mentioned, the Basque region really has me interested. Lastly, what do you think of spending a night Trujillo? I gather I could bus there (2.5 hours) from Madrid, and then go from there to Cordoba (bus to Toledo, AVE to Cordoba). Sound plausible? Keep in mind my total days on the trip isn't locked in concrete, so I can add a few days where needed.
Thanks
May 18th, 2003 | 11:42 AM
#9
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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Hi RAR,
I have both the Lonely Planet & Rough Guides and use both, but I think L.P. does a much better job on updating. The new Rough Guide Costa Brava is very, very good though. My new very favorite guides are the U.K.'s Footprint: Handbook ones. Their Andalucia guide is superb and got plenty of use on our recent trip! I just ordered their brand new one on Northern Spain.
www.footprintbooks.net/
About Pamplona:
The day/overnight (without sleeping of course!) from S.S. sounds like the best plan. The opening wkd. is always horrendously crowded and rowdy. I actually prefer the mid-week days, when the pamplonicas take back their city from the foreigners, and the fiesta becomes much more of a family event. Besides the morning encierro and the 6:30 p.m. bullfight, there are Basque brute force sports contests, the carnival, 11 p.m. fireworks (spectacular, by the way), concerts galore, roving bands everywhere, parades of the Kilikis and Gigantes y Cabezudos, the evening "toro del fuego" and on and on...
In case you haven't checked,
www.sanfermin.com has every bit of info you'll need about the fiesta! And you can check the Pamplona-S.S. bus schedule here (look at "regreso" for the S.S.-Pamplona departure times).
http://www.diariodenoticias.com/serv...da_navarra.php
If you read Spanish, the '02 daily schedule is here:
http://www.fiestasdesanfermin.com/sf...ndex.asp?sId=6
About Trujillo:
That seems quite a bit of zig-zagging, southwest to Trujillo from Madrid (Auto Res bus) then back east to Toledo, then southwest to Cordoba. It's also hot as Hades in Extremadura in July! (as it is of course in Cordoba and Sevilla and all parts of Andalucia, but in both C. and S. you can take refuge and a long mid-day siesta in your air conditioned hotel/hostal room!) Trujillo can be easily seen in a half day (we're doing it again next March), but I don't know that it warrants such a lengthy, time-consuming detour.
My advice would be to skip it this time and do Extremadura, adding Caceres, Guadalupe and Merida on another separate visit, if possible.
Hope this helps, and please forgive the lack of emoticons. Haven't mastered them yet!
I have both the Lonely Planet & Rough Guides and use both, but I think L.P. does a much better job on updating. The new Rough Guide Costa Brava is very, very good though. My new very favorite guides are the U.K.'s Footprint: Handbook ones. Their Andalucia guide is superb and got plenty of use on our recent trip! I just ordered their brand new one on Northern Spain.
www.footprintbooks.net/
About Pamplona:
The day/overnight (without sleeping of course!) from S.S. sounds like the best plan. The opening wkd. is always horrendously crowded and rowdy. I actually prefer the mid-week days, when the pamplonicas take back their city from the foreigners, and the fiesta becomes much more of a family event. Besides the morning encierro and the 6:30 p.m. bullfight, there are Basque brute force sports contests, the carnival, 11 p.m. fireworks (spectacular, by the way), concerts galore, roving bands everywhere, parades of the Kilikis and Gigantes y Cabezudos, the evening "toro del fuego" and on and on...
In case you haven't checked,
www.sanfermin.com has every bit of info you'll need about the fiesta! And you can check the Pamplona-S.S. bus schedule here (look at "regreso" for the S.S.-Pamplona departure times).
http://www.diariodenoticias.com/serv...da_navarra.php
If you read Spanish, the '02 daily schedule is here:
http://www.fiestasdesanfermin.com/sf...ndex.asp?sId=6
About Trujillo:
That seems quite a bit of zig-zagging, southwest to Trujillo from Madrid (Auto Res bus) then back east to Toledo, then southwest to Cordoba. It's also hot as Hades in Extremadura in July! (as it is of course in Cordoba and Sevilla and all parts of Andalucia, but in both C. and S. you can take refuge and a long mid-day siesta in your air conditioned hotel/hostal room!) Trujillo can be easily seen in a half day (we're doing it again next March), but I don't know that it warrants such a lengthy, time-consuming detour.
My advice would be to skip it this time and do Extremadura, adding Caceres, Guadalupe and Merida on another separate visit, if possible.
Hope this helps, and please forgive the lack of emoticons. Haven't mastered them yet!
May 25th, 2003 | 11:42 AM
#13
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 608
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Well Portugal got added to my intinerary since I found a cheap flight to Faro out of Bologna. So I'm starting my trip off there! Very excited. This is nice because I can go from the Algarve straight to Seville, and see Andalusia in June instead of July (less heat! hah)
And I checked out the guide books, the Rough Guide for Spain clearly seemed superior to Let's Go.. and had much better maps than Lonely Planet.
And I checked out the guide books, the Rough Guide for Spain clearly seemed superior to Let's Go.. and had much better maps than Lonely Planet.
May 25th, 2003 | 01:06 PM
#14
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,661
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RAR,
I just saw your white town question, and my favorites are Ronda (really a city), Arcos, Grazalema and Zahara de la Sierra. But for touring them via bus (Comes or Amarillos), I think you'll really need Lonely Planet's Andalucia. The bus info there for getting to the pueblos blancos seems much more detailed. I've compared it to the Footprint: Andaluca Handbook, Rough Guide and Routard.
I just saw your white town question, and my favorites are Ronda (really a city), Arcos, Grazalema and Zahara de la Sierra. But for touring them via bus (Comes or Amarillos), I think you'll really need Lonely Planet's Andalucia. The bus info there for getting to the pueblos blancos seems much more detailed. I've compared it to the Footprint: Andaluca Handbook, Rough Guide and Routard.
