SenatorSteve

Gardyloo, JanisJ, Morgana, Bilboburger, and all others -

Thanks for your advice in July on which travel option and when to travel. Based on your advice, I picked the Southern Scotland to York trip, and decided to go the last two weeks of June instead of July. I 'm not sure exactly where I'll be flying into and out of based on availability and price, it will either be Manchester or Edinburgh. I'm also not sure exactly how long the trip will be. It will be between 13 and 16 days, including air travel.

I've been to Southern England for two weeks (including air travel) and Central Scotland for two weeks, from roughly the Firth of Forth to the Caledonian Canal. Scotland is the favorite country I've ever visited. I've also wanted to visit York. I've never been to Northern England or Southern Scotland.

A few questions.

Would it make any difference whether I started in York or Southern Scotland and finished in the other?

Any other cities/areas in that part of Northern England I should go to? assuming 13 days in England/Scotland, how would you divide them? Any favorite little known areas or favorites I should go to in Scotland? Any other general advice? I really haven't started my extensive research yet.

I don't really like staying at different hotels/inns each night, although would consider it. When I went to Scotland last, I stayed in a rental apartment in Edinburgh for 4 nights, 1 week in Dunkel, 1 night in Aviemore, and the last night at the airport hotel. Is it possible to do something similar here, staying mostly in 1 location near York and 1 location in Southern Scotland, with maybe 1 other location?

This community website has been very helpful in the past. Thank you.

janisj

>>Scotland is the favorite country I've ever visited.<<

Same here

>>Would it make any difference whether I started in York or Southern Scotland and finished in the other?<<

Not a bit really

>>Any other cities/areas in that part of Northern England I should go to? assuming 13 days in England/Scotland, how would you divide them? Any favorite little known areas or favorites I should go to in Scotland? <<

It sort of sounds like you want to stay south of Edinburgh/Glasgow and in NE England, so playing with say 14 days on the ground: I'd plan something like two days IN York, maybe 3 days in the Dales, one additional day in Yorkshire for some of the Moors, maybe Castle Howard, 3 to 4 days in Northumberland, 2 days in the Borders. That leaves you about 3 days to play with. If you want to visit Edinburgh again a couple of days there. If not you could spend that time in Dumfries & Galloway/.

This TR is 6 years old now but the middle covers the Borders, Dumfries, Northumberland, and the Dales. The relevant bits are posts between June 18 and June 28.

Saddest, weirdest, 'funnest', trip ever

(When looking for flights also Include GLA -- MAN/EDI/GLA would all work)

>>staying mostly in 1 location near York and 1 location in Southern Scotland, with maybe 1 other location?<<

Unfortunately not very well. the driving is pretty slow so you'll want maybe 4 bases. But three nights someplace in the Dales, a three night base in Northumberland, three nights in the Borders etc would work.

SenatorSteve

thank you Janisj

Gardyloo

I was looking at your previous posts/threads on this topic, and I'm not sure you've indicated what your interests are, or if you have specific places or types of things/activities on your list. Rural countryside and scenery, picturesque villages, castles, museums, defunct abbeys, beer... ? You said you "love scenery and historic sites" but, honestly, in this part of the world that doesn't cut down the list very much at all. With roughly two weeks on the ground (give or take) you'll have enough time for some variety, but you're also talking about a very big area.

I'd probably stick with the advice Janis and I gave you in the previous thread - Where in British Isles to visit next summer?

I do think you could position yourselves in a couple of "bases" and do day trips, but recognize that you'll spend a fair amount of time on the road by doing so - out and back instead of point to point. While I love the Borders region of Scotland, my blunt opinion is that on the scenery front (not necessarily on the history front) with limited time, my feeling is that places like the Northumberland coast and the Yorkshire Dales have more more to offer than the Borders, but by saying that I feel I'm disrespecting the region, which is quite unwarranted. Are you sure you couldn't take four or six weeks?

If it was me I'd probably focus on two areas for a base of maybe four days each. One would be somewhere along the Northumberland coast. In this area travel between the various points is actually pretty easy and quick, so you wouldn't be losing anything by basing in, say, Bamburgh, and doing a couple of day trips, maybe one like this - https://goo.gl/maps/tzLcesDEnYE2 - which would include the Holy Island, picturesque St. Abbs, then swing inland to Melrose Abbey, then back to Bamburgh via the Tweed or across country to a village like Etal, with its little ruined castle and thatched pub (most northerly thatched pub in England.) You could do another loop south, including Seahouses (maybe a boat tour to the Farne Islands - ground zero for birders) and Alnwick. You could do the same in the Dales, maybe using some village like Hawes or Masham as a rural base, from which to explore the Dales, Fountains Abbey, Bolton Castle, etc.

I would definitely include a day and a night (or at least part of a day) in Durham. As I may have said before, in my view Durham Cathedral is the single most impressive building in Britain, and among the first tier in Europe. It's hard to understate the significance of Durham in the region's history.

I'd also caution that you take a day or two to de-jetlag yourselves before hitting narrow roads. If you fly into Edinburgh, I'd probably just stay near the airport or in South Queensferry and use public transit to get into town for a day. If you land in Manchester, frankly I'd just jump on a train (right from the airport) to either York or Edinburgh and defer getting the car for a day or two.

Happy planning!

ESW

I'd agree with Janis - it doesn't make any difference which way you go. Whichever way you go, do include a stop in Durham, even if you can't manage an overnight. The cathedral is one of the best Norman cathedrals anywhere. The Castle is part of Durham University but they do guided tours. And then there are the delightful Crook Hall Gardens, which are just a short walk from the centre but you feel as if you are miles from anywhere.

Hexham and Corbridge are worth a stop as well on your way north and don't forget Hadrian's Wall. This is best explores on foot but at the very least try and visit Housesteads Fort. You can do a short and very easy walk along the wall from here.

There's also the North Tyne Valley - drive up to Bellingham for Kielder Water. Head to Kielder and do the forest drive which takes you through some of the wildest scenery in England.

Alnwick with its castle and award winning gardens, the ruined Warkworth castle and Cragside in Rothbury are all worthy of a visit.

Check tide times for Holy Island and stick rigidly to them. The sea comes in very quickly and foolish motorists regularly get caught. Salt water doesn't do the car much good!

There is lots to do in the Borders as well with the great bi=order abbeys of Melrose, Jedburgh and Dryburgh. There are ruined castes at Dirleton and Tantallon. You are also spoilt for choice when it comes to Stately homes - Floors Castle, Lennoxlove, Mellerstein, Manderston, Traquair ...

If time allows there is Incholme Abbey on a tiny island in the Firth of Forth.

If you haven't already discovered it, the Undiscovered Scotland website is a wealth of information and pictures and also covers most of Northumberland too.

SenatorSteve

Thank you all for these great suggestions. As I said, I normally exhaustively research my destinations, but this close to election season, I'm kinda busy, and haven't really started looking. Your advice will be invaluable.

Gardyloo: I'll definitely hit Etal. I have a single malt scotch collection with over 75 different types, so I like visiting distilleries. Of course, I have so much Scotch because I buy it faster than I drink it. I don't drink that often, but when I drink whiskey, it's single malt. Prefer heavily sherried. Glendronach is a favorite. Macallan 18, Balvenie Port wood 21. etc. I drink Hard Cider also, but don't drink beer.

I like mountains, waterfalls, other water bodies. I like good food when I travel (and when I'm home). I live in a big city, and travel to others all the time. When I travel for pleasure, I like more rustic areas, but enjoy visiting larger cities only for their historical/architectural significance. I can buy anything other than local crafts where I live. My undergrad degree was in History, and my biggest interest since I was a child is British history.

I will visit the Holy Isle. Our children are both in college, so my wife and I will be taking our first European trip without kids. I'll be 60, her mid 50's.

Does this help narrow what we'd like to see or do?

Thank you all again.

janisj

>>but when I drink whiskey, it's single malt. <<
Oh My dear Lord (!) I do hope that was an autocorrect Not whiskey, man -- WHISKY. (Just had a wee dram of Macallan 18yo from my own collection. Yesterday I picked up a Balvenie 14 yo Carbbean Cask but haven't tried it yet.)

First try to nail down ho many days you will have. Honestly - the difference between 13 and 16 days may not seem much but it is. a 13 day trip will net you 10.5 days on the ground, and 16 days = 13+ days to play with. That will make a big difference how many areas you can visit. Travel, especially in North Yorkshire/the Dales, is quite slow. Like 25 - 30 mph slow. A little faster in most parts of Northumberland and the Borders. I think much more highly of the Borders than Gardyloo apparently. But between the Border Abbeys, St Abbs Head (sort of the Big Sur of Scotland Love of Scotland: St Abbs Head ), Traquair, various castles and towers, etc it is easily 'worth' 3-ish days. Plus being so close to Lindesfarne, Bamburgh, Alnwick and so on it is and easy stop on the way to/from Northumberland/Hadrians Wall.

If it was me I'd want a couple of days for York including Castle Howard, 3 days in the Dales, 1 day for Durham and/or Beamish, 1 full day for Hadrian's Wall, 2 or 3 days for the rest of Northumberland (Alnwick/Bamburgh/Lindesfarne/plus) 2 or 3 full days in the Borders . . . just this would be a 16 day trip including flights.

SenatorSteve

I promise I know the difference between Whisky and Whiskey. See my current inventory below.

Before you start complaining that a few aren't Scotch Whisky's please note that there are footnotes identifying them with their countries of origin. Footnote MG indicates that it was purchased in consultation with my son, Marc.

Scottish Single Malt

With a few close relations- All Single malts Total different whiskeys from that Distillery



Aberlour 10,16 2

Amrut Fusion # ******* MG 1

Ardberg Uigeadail * 1

Arran 10 1

Auchentoshan 10 1

Balvenie 10, 12(doublewood), 14 (Caribbean Rum) 15 (single cask)

21 (Port wood) 5

Benrinnes Berry Bros. and Rudd 16 Cask 306748 1

Benromach 10 MG 1

Bowmore undated, 10,12,17,18 5

Bunnahabhain 12 1

Bushmills Single Malt 10,16 ** 2

Clynelish 14 1

Cragganmore 12 1

Dalmore Cigar Malt, 12 2

Dalwhinnie 15 1

Glen Breton **** Rare (8), House of Alister MacKenzie (12) 2

Glendronach 12, 18, 25 (1968) 3

Glenfarclas 12 1

Glenfiddich Special Reserve, 12, 14 (Bourbon Barrel reserve) 15 (Solera Reserve)4

Glen Garioch 21 1

Glengoyne 12 1

Glenkinchie 10 1

Glenlivet 12,21 2

Glenmorangie 10, 12 (Sherry), 12 (Nectar d’Or), 12 (Quinta Rubin Port)

Signet, 18 5

Glen Ord 12 1

Glenrothes Select Reserve, 15 2

Highland Park 12, Dark Origins * 2

Jameson 12 ** 1

Jonny Walker 15 (Green, Pure Malt), Century *** 2

Kavalan Port Finish ***** 1

Knockando 13 (78-92), 21 2

Knoppogue Castle 8, 12, 36 (1951) ** 3

Lagavulin 16 1

Ledaig Over 20 1

Loch Dhu 10 +++ 1

MacCallan Cask Strength, 10 (fine oak), 12, 12 Double Cask, 15 (1985),

Edition 1, 18 (1983, 1985, 1986), 25 10



Monkey Shoulders *** MG 1

Mortlach 15, Rare Old NV 2

Oban 14, Oban Little Bay 2

Old Pultney 12 1

Penderyn Peated, Madeira, Sherrywood ****** 3

Paul John Brilliance ******* 1

Speyburn 21 1

Strathisla (Gordon & McPhail 25) MG 1

Talisker 10 1

Tamdhu 1

Tullamore Dew 10 ** 1

Yamazaki 18 * and ******** 1



89



* Scotch Whisky or Whiskey of the Year

** Irish Single Malt

*** Blend of Single Malts (Pure Malt)

**** Single Malt – Nova Scotia

***** Single Malt – Taiwan

****** Single Malts – Wales

******* Single Malt - India

******** Single Malt – Japan

+++ Worst Single Malt Scotch ever distilled

# Malt Advocate World Whisky of the World, Whisky Bible third Finest Whisky of the World, Malt Maniac Best Natural Cask Natural Drams Award

MG – Purchased by or in consultation with Marc

SenatorSteve

The formatting doesn't make clear that the boldface number at the end of each line is the total number of whisky's from that distillery. It makes keeping count easier.

janisj

Nice collection. I did assume you knew the difference -- but 'whiskey' is what was typed (and again in you new post). Therefore the

An emoji does sorta make a difference.

>>Loch Dhu 10 . . . +++ Worst Single Malt Scotch ever distilled<<. That is a collectors item - AFAIK it is no longer in production.

SenatorSteve

The Loch Dhu is one of the opened bottles. It's been open for probably 15 or 20 years. It's irrelevant, as no one would ever drink that swill. It can't have gotten any worse. Maybe 15-20 of the bottles have been opened, the rest are still sealed.

SenatorSteve

All: I don't want to distract with the Scotch Whisky discussion. Please send more tips and advice on my trip!

Thank you. This is a wonderful source of info.

historytraveler

I also love the Borders. While it's true that geographically as one travels farther north in Scotland the scenery gets more dramatic, the Borders is still an extremely pleasant area. In the east you have rolling hills, woods and a pastoral-like setting.This is where the rivers Tweed and the Teviot provide idyllic settings for fishing, picnicking or just easy walks. As one travels west, you'll find moors, and rounded mountains and a less populated, less crowded area which can be a plus. The Borders are chock a block full of history. The area has been fought over for centuries mostly between the English and the Scottish with the locals having little interest in either side, only trying to look out for themselves. In fact the Border residents at times were considered little more than cattle rustlers and thieves and some were. Two places to visit in the Borders that have not been mentioned are Hermitage Castle near Hawick and Smailholm Tower. Hermitage Castle was taken over by the Douglas Clan in the 14th century and has from its beginnings an unsavory reputation. It is perhaps most famous for Mary Queen of Scots amazing journey from Jedburgh covering some 40 miles there and back in one day in order to see Bothwell who was recovering from wounds incurred by the British. Hermitage Castle has a lonely and gloomy aura about it as it stands among the moors but well worth a visit.

Smailholm Tower near Kelso provides the best example of a Pele or Peel tower which were built solely for defensive purposes and are a true reflection of the turbulent times during the Border raids. Smailholm has strong connections with Sir Walter Scott who spent his childhood holidays nearby. It has been renovated and its interior gives an interesting look at life in the precarious countryside.

vickiebypass

I spent almost 2 weeks in Newcastle, Northumbria and the Borders area of Scotland and loved it. Here's my trip report: Ten Days in Northern England & Scotland Borders Hope it's useful.

janisj

Vickiebypass: I think this is the link to your TR. Scotland & UK: 2 weeks with Sheep & Cows

(The link you posted is one of your pre-planning threads)

vickiebypass

Janisj - THANK YOU! I was rushing and didn’t open the link to see which one it was. It’s such a great - and under visited - area that I hoped my trip report might be helpful. Appreciate your fix!

tuscanlifeedit

Bookmarking as I can't send the page to my email. Tech issue, I guess.