South of France and Italy 10 Day Train Itinerary - suggestions?
Mar 26th, 2013, 10:46 PM
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South of France and Italy 10 Day Train Itinerary - suggestions?
Hello! We are going to be three 22-23 year old girls and one girl's mother travelling this June. We would love to see lots of arts and culture, but we don't want to be in a stressful whirlwind of places - some relaxation is necessary. We love the idea of staying in or at least seeing some of Arles, Aix-en-Provence, or Marseille, but Nice seems lovely as well, and to be a better place transportation-wise since we don't want to waste all of our time transferring trains! Here are my three preliminary itineraries, based on the train routes. Which do you think seems the most viable? Do you have any suggestions on where we should spend more time or less, or another alternative to breaking up our train travel than in Cinque Terre? I'd love to break up that 7 hour train ride with a night somewhere, but I don't know if that will allow us enough time to go to Venice as well. Also, staying in 4 hotels over 10 days seems like a lot! I've never done a trip like this before - what do you think?
Option A: City in Provence, cinque terre, Pisa/Florence
Day 1: Fly into Nice - train to Arles/Aix-en-Provence/Avignon/Marseille (which one??) and settle in.
Days 2,3,4: Explore the city we stay in and do day trip to another
Day 5: Train to Nice, transfer to Ventimiglia, transfer to Cinque Terre - (there might also be a train direct from marseille to ventimiglia without the transfer in Nice, more research needed) Night in CT
Day 6: Explore Cinque Terre, stay the night again
Day 7: Train from CT to Florence by way of Pisa. In Pisa it seems like we can leave our luggage at the train station, go to the leaning tower and lunch for a couple of hours, and then continue on to Florence for the afternoon/night.
Days 8-9: Explore Florence
Day 10: Fly back to NYC from Florence!
Option B: Nice, Pisa, Florence, Venice (more time in Nice and Venice, less in Florence)
Day 1: Fly into Nice. Settle in, relax
Days 2,3,4: Explore Nice. Take a day trip to Antibes (picasso museum) and possibly Monaco (only 20 mins away!) Lots of day trip ideas/info here: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...elp-please.cfm
Day 5: Nice to Ventimiglia (45 mins), ventimiglia to florence with a stop in Pisa (described above), evening in Florence
Days 6-7: Explore florence
Days 8-9: Take (2 hour) train to Venice. Stay 2 nights.
Day 10: Fly back to NYC from Venice! Is flying from Venice more expensive/inconvenient?
Option C: Nice, Venice, Florence, Sienna (Less time in Nice and Venice, more in Florence)
Day 1: Fly into Nice. Settle in.
Days 2-3: Explore Nice. Day trips as above.
Day 4: Nice to Ventimiglia (45 mins), Ventimiglia to Venice (about 6-7 hours). Evening in Venice
Day 5: Explore Venice.
Day 6: Morning train to Florence. Explore Florence.
Days 7-8: Explore Florence
Day 9: Day trip to Sienna or other, evening in Florence
Day 10: Fly back to NYC from Florence!
Thank you so much!! We all are really excited for this trip and want to book our flights right away, but we want to be sure we can maximize our vacation time!
Option A: City in Provence, cinque terre, Pisa/Florence
Day 1: Fly into Nice - train to Arles/Aix-en-Provence/Avignon/Marseille (which one??) and settle in.
Days 2,3,4: Explore the city we stay in and do day trip to another
Day 5: Train to Nice, transfer to Ventimiglia, transfer to Cinque Terre - (there might also be a train direct from marseille to ventimiglia without the transfer in Nice, more research needed) Night in CT
Day 6: Explore Cinque Terre, stay the night again
Day 7: Train from CT to Florence by way of Pisa. In Pisa it seems like we can leave our luggage at the train station, go to the leaning tower and lunch for a couple of hours, and then continue on to Florence for the afternoon/night.
Days 8-9: Explore Florence
Day 10: Fly back to NYC from Florence!
Option B: Nice, Pisa, Florence, Venice (more time in Nice and Venice, less in Florence)
Day 1: Fly into Nice. Settle in, relax
Days 2,3,4: Explore Nice. Take a day trip to Antibes (picasso museum) and possibly Monaco (only 20 mins away!) Lots of day trip ideas/info here: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...elp-please.cfm
Day 5: Nice to Ventimiglia (45 mins), ventimiglia to florence with a stop in Pisa (described above), evening in Florence
Days 6-7: Explore florence
Days 8-9: Take (2 hour) train to Venice. Stay 2 nights.
Day 10: Fly back to NYC from Venice! Is flying from Venice more expensive/inconvenient?
Option C: Nice, Venice, Florence, Sienna (Less time in Nice and Venice, more in Florence)
Day 1: Fly into Nice. Settle in.
Days 2-3: Explore Nice. Day trips as above.
Day 4: Nice to Ventimiglia (45 mins), Ventimiglia to Venice (about 6-7 hours). Evening in Venice
Day 5: Explore Venice.
Day 6: Morning train to Florence. Explore Florence.
Days 7-8: Explore Florence
Day 9: Day trip to Sienna or other, evening in Florence
Day 10: Fly back to NYC from Florence!
Thank you so much!! We all are really excited for this trip and want to book our flights right away, but we want to be sure we can maximize our vacation time!
Mar 27th, 2013, 07:04 AM
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good luck! wish i could offer advice but all i can say is there are some wonderful people on here that will hopefully help you. They have been amazing for me! Good Luck!!! and you never know we may cross paths!
Mar 27th, 2013, 07:30 AM
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I think you need a map, lol!
Take a look at the distances between your top choices and draw lines to connect them.
You'll waste time and $$'s doubling back.
Time is also eaten up every time you check in and out of hotels. You also need to account for the time to get to the train station, get tickets, find your track, on/off the train, get to your new hotel, etc.
With only 10 days, your 'Plan B" makes the most sense. If you're doing the French Riviera on this trip, save CT for the next one.
Pick a base, either Nice or Marseille, and do day trips from there.
Then train to Florence, base there for day trips to Pisa, Siena, etc.
Look at 'Open-Jaw" flights - fly into one city and out of another so you don't have to double back. If the flight costs a bit more it might still make sense, if you don't have to travel back to the original airport, get a hotel again for the last night, etc.
I've heard that the flights out of Venice are not desirable since they leave very early in the am and getting to the airport takes time.
You'll make the most of your time by staying in just a couple of places and taking day trips.
Check back when you've decided on your cities.
Take a look at the distances between your top choices and draw lines to connect them.
You'll waste time and $$'s doubling back.
Time is also eaten up every time you check in and out of hotels. You also need to account for the time to get to the train station, get tickets, find your track, on/off the train, get to your new hotel, etc.
With only 10 days, your 'Plan B" makes the most sense. If you're doing the French Riviera on this trip, save CT for the next one.
Pick a base, either Nice or Marseille, and do day trips from there.
Then train to Florence, base there for day trips to Pisa, Siena, etc.
Look at 'Open-Jaw" flights - fly into one city and out of another so you don't have to double back. If the flight costs a bit more it might still make sense, if you don't have to travel back to the original airport, get a hotel again for the last night, etc.
I've heard that the flights out of Venice are not desirable since they leave very early in the am and getting to the airport takes time.
You'll make the most of your time by staying in just a couple of places and taking day trips.
Check back when you've decided on your cities.
Mar 27th, 2013, 07:43 AM
#5
"We don't want to be in a stressful whirlwind of places - some relaxation is necessary." Then, I wouldn't spend only one full day (2 nights) in Venice (Options B and C). You may also find that your departing flight from Venice leaves extremely early.
You only have 8 full days not impacted by your arriving/departing flights, and you'll basically lose one day getting from France to Italy. Marseille to the CT is at least 8.5 hours not counting the time at both ends between hotels and stations. From Arles or Avignon is even longer.
Although the other contemplated train rides seem comparatively short, you still spend time at both ends between hotels and stations. Even the seemingly simple stop at Pisa along the way to Florence involves time spent checking/retrieving luggage at Pisa C., time walking/taxi between the station and the tower area, checking in (timed reservations required) for climbing the tower, time in the tower, time seeing the Field of Miracles, time for lunch, etc. Lots of 'time' everywhere. You wouldn't reach your Florence hotel until late afternoon.
I can't prioritze your trip for you, but if it were my trip I'd stay only in Nice and Florence and make day trips from both. I'd leave the CT and Venice for another trip.
You only have 8 full days not impacted by your arriving/departing flights, and you'll basically lose one day getting from France to Italy. Marseille to the CT is at least 8.5 hours not counting the time at both ends between hotels and stations. From Arles or Avignon is even longer.
Although the other contemplated train rides seem comparatively short, you still spend time at both ends between hotels and stations. Even the seemingly simple stop at Pisa along the way to Florence involves time spent checking/retrieving luggage at Pisa C., time walking/taxi between the station and the tower area, checking in (timed reservations required) for climbing the tower, time in the tower, time seeing the Field of Miracles, time for lunch, etc. Lots of 'time' everywhere. You wouldn't reach your Florence hotel until late afternoon.
I can't prioritze your trip for you, but if it were my trip I'd stay only in Nice and Florence and make day trips from both. I'd leave the CT and Venice for another trip.
Mar 27th, 2013, 09:42 AM
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I concur with Jean's reasoning, but would choose to spend the time in Italy if you're into arts and culture. Skip the Cinque Terre, as that offers scenery and hiking, not arts and culture.
Instead, Florence and Venice, flying into and out of Venice. Day trip to Sienna and/or Pisa, and stop in Bologna, or in Padua, or both, on the train from Florence to Venice, or in one on each half of the two-way trip.
--
Alternatively, stay in the South of France, which also offers much art and culture: Nice, Arles and surrounding towns, Aix and Marseilles. These have lots of art and art-related things, but not as much as Italy and not as old. To give you an idea, you could easily spend all your time in Florence.
You'd lose a whole day travelling from Nice to Florence and to me, it's not worth it with the amount of time you have.
Instead, Florence and Venice, flying into and out of Venice. Day trip to Sienna and/or Pisa, and stop in Bologna, or in Padua, or both, on the train from Florence to Venice, or in one on each half of the two-way trip.
--
Alternatively, stay in the South of France, which also offers much art and culture: Nice, Arles and surrounding towns, Aix and Marseilles. These have lots of art and art-related things, but not as much as Italy and not as old. To give you an idea, you could easily spend all your time in Florence.
You'd lose a whole day travelling from Nice to Florence and to me, it's not worth it with the amount of time you have.
Mar 27th, 2013, 11:59 AM
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This is really helpful! Thank you so much for the dose of realism. I am going to talk to my travel companions and see if we can narrow down to two cities, or see if we can add a day or two to our trip.
If we do stay in France but not in Nice, which city would you recommend? It seems to be Marseille?
Just as a helpful guide as we narrow down our itinerary - How many days/nights would you recommend as a bare minimum in each:
Nice
Marseille (or whichever city you'd recommend in the area)
Venice
Florence
Cinque Terre
If we do stay in France but not in Nice, which city would you recommend? It seems to be Marseille?
Just as a helpful guide as we narrow down our itinerary - How many days/nights would you recommend as a bare minimum in each:
Nice
Marseille (or whichever city you'd recommend in the area)
Venice
Florence
Cinque Terre
Mar 28th, 2013, 06:24 AM
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staceynicole--
We stayed around a week in Arles--that was owing to our interest in Roman ruins which are particularly thick in Arles. It is also associated with Van Gogh, which might appeal to you art lovers. We found that we could see everything in that area from Arles: Aix, Marseilles, Nimes, Avignon. And the food! Pont du Gard would offer a quiet day in the country, not too many people. I don't think I'd stay in Marseille as it is not that central to other places in Provence. We had a car, however, which you may not.
As to minimum time in each, this is very difficult to say. I'll rank them in the order I'd give them (and have given them)--from most time to least.
Florence--you're art lovers and Florence has enough art to keep you busy for a week, although for a minimum, four nites.
Venice--three night minimum, four if you can possibly. Venice may be the most beautiful city in the world, and is loaded with art.
Nice--three nights.
Cinque Terre. IF you're going there, I think it would probably deserve a nite because the only reason to go is to hike along the coast and visit the villages, and two days plus a stay would probably give you a feel for the place. We've gone there twice for day trips and have been disappointed each time. Unless you are into hiking, I'd skip it altogether in favor of a smaller village or city in Tuscany or Liguria for your "rest days." Or head to Torcello from Venice and Fiesole from Florence. Both are much less visited than the rest of those two areas that are generally overrun by tourists during the day.
Marseille--we visited on a day trip from Arles and felt we saw what we wanted to see of the city. We liked it a lot, but at least in our estimation, it would not be worth an overnite.
We stayed around a week in Arles--that was owing to our interest in Roman ruins which are particularly thick in Arles. It is also associated with Van Gogh, which might appeal to you art lovers. We found that we could see everything in that area from Arles: Aix, Marseilles, Nimes, Avignon. And the food! Pont du Gard would offer a quiet day in the country, not too many people. I don't think I'd stay in Marseille as it is not that central to other places in Provence. We had a car, however, which you may not.
As to minimum time in each, this is very difficult to say. I'll rank them in the order I'd give them (and have given them)--from most time to least.
Florence--you're art lovers and Florence has enough art to keep you busy for a week, although for a minimum, four nites.
Venice--three night minimum, four if you can possibly. Venice may be the most beautiful city in the world, and is loaded with art.
Nice--three nights.
Cinque Terre. IF you're going there, I think it would probably deserve a nite because the only reason to go is to hike along the coast and visit the villages, and two days plus a stay would probably give you a feel for the place. We've gone there twice for day trips and have been disappointed each time. Unless you are into hiking, I'd skip it altogether in favor of a smaller village or city in Tuscany or Liguria for your "rest days." Or head to Torcello from Venice and Fiesole from Florence. Both are much less visited than the rest of those two areas that are generally overrun by tourists during the day.
Marseille--we visited on a day trip from Arles and felt we saw what we wanted to see of the city. We liked it a lot, but at least in our estimation, it would not be worth an overnite.
Mar 28th, 2013, 09:02 AM
#9
With 8 days, I'd pick only two destinations, preferably in the same country. There are day trip options from everywhere.
Which two, which country, are your choice. I'm an Italophile, so for me it would be Florence (or Rome) + wherever.
Do you have a fairly modest lodging budget? If so, you might start investigating availability in your budget range in these destinations and possibly find you need to scratch a place or two off your list.
Which two, which country, are your choice. I'm an Italophile, so for me it would be Florence (or Rome) + wherever.
Do you have a fairly modest lodging budget? If so, you might start investigating availability in your budget range in these destinations and possibly find you need to scratch a place or two off your list.
Mar 28th, 2013, 09:13 AM
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I would choose Nice over Marseilles, which is a very large city. Nice is large, but the areas of interest to visitors is small, centered around the old town (Vieux Nice) and the Promenade des Anglais, along the Mediterranean.
Nice offers the superb Chagall museum, Roman ruins, the Matisse museum, the Museum of Fine arts, a modern-art museum, intriguing architecture, fine old churches, and much more. All are easy of access by bus or the excellent tram system.
Nice offers the superb Chagall museum, Roman ruins, the Matisse museum, the Museum of Fine arts, a modern-art museum, intriguing architecture, fine old churches, and much more. All are easy of access by bus or the excellent tram system.
Mar 28th, 2013, 09:15 AM
#11
I agree with Jean. Only 8 nights, no more than two destinations. Do some day trips from your two locationss.
Nice/Venice
Nice/Florence.
I would look at flights from Pisa instead of Florence though as Pisa has some non-stop to JFK (Delta). Florence does not have any non-stop flights to the US which means most flights will depart early as you will have a connection somewhere in Europe.
Nice/Venice
Nice/Florence.
I would look at flights from Pisa instead of Florence though as Pisa has some non-stop to JFK (Delta). Florence does not have any non-stop flights to the US which means most flights will depart early as you will have a connection somewhere in Europe.
Mar 28th, 2013, 11:02 AM
#12
Actually, it's 9 nights and 8 days, but I suppose since the flights haven't been booked yet anything is possible.
staceynicole, if you're fixed on France + Italy, you need to investigate the train and plane options between the two. I see some (not necessarily every day) Easyjet flights Nice-Venice and Nice-Rome but no flights to Pisa or Florence. I don't know what other airlines might fly those routes, but perhaps others here can chime in. As mentioned earlier, the train from Nice to Florence is at least 7 hours.
You can search train timetables to Italy here:
http://www.fsitaliane.com/homepage_en.html
staceynicole, if you're fixed on France + Italy, you need to investigate the train and plane options between the two. I see some (not necessarily every day) Easyjet flights Nice-Venice and Nice-Rome but no flights to Pisa or Florence. I don't know what other airlines might fly those routes, but perhaps others here can chime in. As mentioned earlier, the train from Nice to Florence is at least 7 hours.
You can search train timetables to Italy here:
http://www.fsitaliane.com/homepage_en.html
Mar 28th, 2013, 11:24 AM
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Nice to Florence is a slow slow ancient rail line that is congested and simply cannot carry high-speed trains and the fact that the Italian Railways decided to end all cross border trains at this place (and most in other parts of the country as well save overnight trains and a few into Switzerland.
Anyway you must always change trains at Ventimiglia, last Italian border station - and usually to a slow commuter train that winds its way to Nice after stopping it seems at every grouping of houses.
Anyway for loads of great dope on France and Italian trains check out www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuroeptravel.com. For schedules www.trenitalia.com for Italy and www.voyages-sncf.com for French trains with online discounts available for both countries if you want to book fare in advance a specific trains and then may not be able to change it
Anyway you must always change trains at Ventimiglia, last Italian border station - and usually to a slow commuter train that winds its way to Nice after stopping it seems at every grouping of houses.
Anyway for loads of great dope on France and Italian trains check out www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuroeptravel.com. For schedules www.trenitalia.com for Italy and www.voyages-sncf.com for French trains with online discounts available for both countries if you want to book fare in advance a specific trains and then may not be able to change it
Mar 29th, 2013, 08:01 AM
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Hm, I was pretty much convinced to take the train instead of flying based on this post but now I'm definitely reconsidering flying: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...l.cfm?xyzallow
Do you think that between getting to and from the airports plus flight time, that it would really save a significant amount of time compared to the train? Are the airports in Nice, Florence, and Venice (and maybe Marseille) convenient to get to from the cities? Is any city especially easy or especially annoying to get to/from via train or air? This might help us finally narrow down our itinerary!
Do you think that between getting to and from the airports plus flight time, that it would really save a significant amount of time compared to the train? Are the airports in Nice, Florence, and Venice (and maybe Marseille) convenient to get to from the cities? Is any city especially easy or especially annoying to get to/from via train or air? This might help us finally narrow down our itinerary!
Mar 29th, 2013, 09:13 AM
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Is any city especially easy or especially annoying to get to/from via train or air?>
Nice's airport is just a few miles from the center of Nice - a quick bus or taxi ride away and since Nice is so so great and the area as well if you fly farther west, say to Marseille, then you'd have to back track to Nice.
Nice's airport is just a few miles from the center of Nice - a quick bus or taxi ride away and since Nice is so so great and the area as well if you fly farther west, say to Marseille, then you'd have to back track to Nice.
