Cjar

So, I have to ask, has anyone ever used a service i.e. driver or hotel or anything where the company's fees to M.C. or Visa were passed along on your bill? We had a lovely trip to Ireland early this summer using 4 different private drivers and one of them charged us an additional 3% to cover fees charged by the bank. Now, mind you, this was not our bank. We use a card without foreign transaction fees and that generally shows up only on your billing statement as fees, doesn't it? This was an additional charge by the transport company and separate from the charge for services. Our email correspondence prior to booking said nothing about this even though I specifically inquired about any additional fees. Anyone ever heard of this? Crazy, right? Maybe even unethical ?

hetismij2

It isn't illegal for businesses to charge you a fee for credit card use in Europe.
Since June 17th this year it is illegal for them to charge more than they actually pay the CC company. But every company pays a different rate, so it is hard to establish what you should be paying, but it will be a percentage of the bill, not a fixed sum of money.
Most large companies don't charge for CC use, seeing it as a customer service.

Dukey1

I think there are various businesses which try to pass the CC fees they are assessed on to the customers. Government entities in the US which "accept" credit card payments have been doing it for years in the form of the "processing fee."

janisj

I've never had that w/ a driver (I drive myself ) -- but B&Bs and when ordering something on line from the UK or Ireland, yes frequently they add a small amount to use a cc.

Odin

It's common in Denmark. Some establishments will charge extra when using a foreign credit card, usually 2.5 -3%. You can see it mentioned at the bottom of menus etc so you are forewarned.

hetismij2

Yes EU law now states, in addition to the exactfee, you must be informed before the transaction so you have the option of paying in another way, or going elsewhere.

Dukey1

This really is interesting because what a merchant actually GETS by allowing use of a credit card.

They get traffic flow and the potential for increased revenue since they accept cards.

The get "instant" revenue which is guaranteed by the issuer against fraud or when that "approval" is received at the time of transaction.

Yes, they pay a percentage of the transaction in fees for these services so it appears these merchants who "pass on" these costs want these benefits of card acceptance for free.

janisj

Dukey: but taking cash doesn't cost them a sou/penny/ruble . . . .

Odin

The fee is only charged on foreign credit cards, not locally issued ones (in the case of Denmark). It's because the merchant gets charged extra, I don't think it is only 2.5-3%, I believe this is only part of the exact fee.
This thread explains it
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...candinavia.cfm
So the commonly given advice of limit the amount of cash you take in Denmark is not always the best advice IMO. Some small places don't even accept ccds.

Christina

There are various businesses that do this (even in the US), but they always warn you about it so you can decide. I know Easyjet does it, for one. I certainly think you should be told in advance, of course, so you can pay cash if you want.

Cjar

I think what bothered me the most was the fact that I was not told in advance. Given the amount of the transaction , I would have used the card regardless, but I would have liked to have been forewarned. As for the U.S., I have never had a merchant pass on the cost of the 3-5 % paid to the c.c. companies in addition to the cost of the service or product except when dealing directly with the bank for currency, cashier's checks what have you. I thought we were the only country to nickel and dime people to death. Anyway you learn something new everyday. Next time it won't come as a surprise.

flanneruk

" I would have used the card regardless, but I would have liked to have been forewarned."

But shopkeepers in your country routinely slap sales tax onto goods they lyingly label with the tax-free price.

We'd liked to be forewarned too - but not one single merchant in the entire US ever does.

In most of Europe, customers who don't pay cash are frequently expected to pay the added burden they place on suppliers - and the added costs they create for the rest of us. That's not "nickle and diming": it's stopping relatively affluent people from inflating the cost of living for everyone else.

There's no such excuse for the American tradition of lying about prices.

hetismij2

Very few people in the Netherlands pay with a credit card. We have an excellent, efficient banking system, and using our debit card to purchase items means the money is transferred instantly. It costs the shop all of €0.05 for such a transaction. For online shopping within the Netherlands we have Ideal, an electronic payment system, using internet banking. Again an instant payment.
Because of this credit cards are less accepted or used. When they are accepted the traffic in them is low, so the cost relatively high, which is why a charge is made.

We haven't had cheques for more than 20 years, so electronic payment is absolutely normal. Very few people pay cash, or even carry much cash. Even on our local market we can buy everything with our bank card.

When I buy certain items I use the credit card simply because of the insurance offered. It is worth the small price hike on such occasions.

Odin

The system in Denmark is virtually identical to that described above. People don't pay by credit card generally, they use Dankort.

KTtravel

flanneruk, Americans don't consider taxes added on to goods "lying" about prices. We expect most goods, except for some food items, to be taxed at the end of the transaction. I can see, however, how that might be confusing to visitors. There are strict rules about the type of goods and the expected amount of tax which can vary from county to county. It is called a sales tax and is not a a deliberate attempt to swindle.

Padraig

You know when we have those animated "how much should I tip in <xxx>?" conversations, and we get some Americans who declare; "Well, I don't care that small tips or no tips are the norm in <xxx>; I will tip 15-20% because that is what I am used to at home."? Do such people insist on adding on sales tax when shopping in Europe?

Cjar, adding on a percentage to CC payments in order to recover the processing costs is common enough in Ireland, but by no means a universal practice. It is a requirement under Irish law than the customer be made aware of the charge before a contract is made. If you booked through a website, revisit the site and check if the charge is mentioned. It does not have to be flagged with flashing 20pt boldface red type, but it should be reasonably clear to a moderately-attentive reader. If you did not receive notification of the charge before committing to the booking, you can ask your CC company to reverse the charge on the basis that it was unauthorised.

bilboburgler

Padraig

kwren

The other way to be charged extra when using a credit card is by accepting a charge in your own currency instead of in the currency of that country. For instance, we were asked if we wanted to pay for our hotel in Ireland in dollars. I said no and the hotel clerk charged me in dollars anyway. She said oops! it's better for you anyway. I had heard about this happening so I insisted that she void the amount. She said she didn't know how. I insisted until she did it and charged me in Euros.

When I got my bill I could see that the original charge (and credited amount) in dollars would have cost me $6 more. Not a lot, but it would add up quickly. (We don't have foreign transaction fees on that card so we know that did not account for it.)

Do you think he may have charged you in your own currency? Apparently, according to many posts I've read on Fodors, Ireland is known for doing this. We've certainly seen it many times there, but are now very careful about it.

Christina

It isn't "lying" to quote prices in the US without taxes, which do not come from the store. It is just custom, the same way it is a custom in Europe to include them. Whenever people travel, they kind of have to learn the customs on pricing where they are going, it works both ways, not just that the European way is better. If you live in a place, you know what the sales taxes are, and even when traveling, they don't usually vary that much. Besides, it would be the same in an area so for competitive reasons, it wouldn't affect pricing for comparison.

<<As for the U.S., I have never had a merchant pass on the cost of the 3-5 % paid to the c.c. companies in addition to the cost of the service or product >>

It is very common where I live for gas stations to do this, some are sleazier in that they prominantly post the cash price on the sign and in small print it says "cash price", and in another place you find the CC price. Also, any government entity or public utility where I live charges a 3-5% fee if you pay by credit card, and they tell you that (ie, your property tax bill, your driver's license fee, or the water bill). Also, my former mortgage company did that, also and it was just a private bank.

bilboburgler

Christina, you are right, but to Europeans it just feels like lying. I dislike the credit charge thing in Europe but I hate it that the US can't make up their minds what to charge for things (plus tax, plus tip, plus credit card charge....)

Still Romans and candles