Snarky replies
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:42 AM
#21
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<i>"We are in our early 20's and planning our first trip to Europe for 12 days. We would like to see the UK, France, Germany and Italy. We want to see 'as much as possible' because this may be our only chance to travel to Europe. Am I crazy?""</i>
You're a complete fool? You're an idiot?
Your plan is:
Insane/bizarre/foolish/absurd/preposterous/grotesque/kooky/outlandish/screwy/wacky/weird/farcical/laughable/ludicrous/ridiculous/Kafkaesque/nightmarish ?????
What's the least snarky response?
You're a complete fool? You're an idiot?
Your plan is:
Insane/bizarre/foolish/absurd/preposterous/grotesque/kooky/outlandish/screwy/wacky/weird/farcical/laughable/ludicrous/ridiculous/Kafkaesque/nightmarish ?????
What's the least snarky response?
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:52 AM
#22
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crckwce1,
Don't back down! The comments directed at newbies are absolutely intended to be humiliating, and to hold up newbies as a source of mean fun. I also think nukesafe is onto something about the lounge rats. I would toss in that there are some posters who seem to approach everything, not just travel, as needing pushes, slaps and shoves. Take a look sometime when people ask for advice about language learning or retiring to Europe. The same posters who slap around the newbies jump in to advise you start slapping yourself around. put yourself under pressure, brace yourself for a battle. It's their worldview. Everything is an aggravation.
The one time I looked at "the lounge", I read a long thread started by a Fodorite who was moved to post because, after some months of her and her husband giving money to a homeless mentally ill person who lived outside a local supermarket, the mentally ill person insulted the husband for giving too little. The whole thread was full of people yuk-yukking about this mentally-ill person ruining his customer base, and no more money for that nut. I think the notion that you are going to get such posters to re-think their own attitudes is pretty slim -- but bravo for having optimism.
In response to the questions about where to get A&W root beer in Paris, the useful answer is The Real McCoy at 194 rue de Grenelle. Other American-food stores in Paris include The General Store, Thanksgiving, and Epicerie-Anglaise.
Some of Fodor's most prolific posters on the Europe board steer newcomers to destinations that I think rank pretty low as an interesting experience of travel -- including areas of Paris. So you can't blame people for looking for a range of opinion.
qwovadis,
If you are serious you are trying to save lives, you should adopt a more readable posting style.
Don't back down! The comments directed at newbies are absolutely intended to be humiliating, and to hold up newbies as a source of mean fun. I also think nukesafe is onto something about the lounge rats. I would toss in that there are some posters who seem to approach everything, not just travel, as needing pushes, slaps and shoves. Take a look sometime when people ask for advice about language learning or retiring to Europe. The same posters who slap around the newbies jump in to advise you start slapping yourself around. put yourself under pressure, brace yourself for a battle. It's their worldview. Everything is an aggravation.
The one time I looked at "the lounge", I read a long thread started by a Fodorite who was moved to post because, after some months of her and her husband giving money to a homeless mentally ill person who lived outside a local supermarket, the mentally ill person insulted the husband for giving too little. The whole thread was full of people yuk-yukking about this mentally-ill person ruining his customer base, and no more money for that nut. I think the notion that you are going to get such posters to re-think their own attitudes is pretty slim -- but bravo for having optimism.
In response to the questions about where to get A&W root beer in Paris, the useful answer is The Real McCoy at 194 rue de Grenelle. Other American-food stores in Paris include The General Store, Thanksgiving, and Epicerie-Anglaise.
Some of Fodor's most prolific posters on the Europe board steer newcomers to destinations that I think rank pretty low as an interesting experience of travel -- including areas of Paris. So you can't blame people for looking for a range of opinion.
qwovadis,
If you are serious you are trying to save lives, you should adopt a more readable posting style.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 06:02 AM
#23
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bardo1,
None of your suggestions. They are not crazy to dream of such a trip. But a lot of American 20 year olds have had a very inadequate education for reasons well-informed adults know all too well. In fact, they might have had parents like you.
20 year olds can, in fact, fly into London, take the tunnel train to Paris, take an overnight train to Venice and fly or train into Germany (Munich?) and be home in 12 days and have had a thrilling experience.
Before suggesting such a trip, I would applaud their desires to get beyond the limitations of their culture that doomed their parents to lifelong loser activity and resentment, and use the occasion to educate them better about Europe and its geography. I would also take the time to find out what kind of travel would make them happy that's within their resources.
You point out the source of a lot of the "snarky" comments to newbies. A complete lack of imagination on the part of a lot of Fodor's regular posters. They simply cannot imagine other people's travel desires, travel temperment, travel fun. They really can't. They think anything other than the forumla for travel they do is "stupid" or "crazy".
None of your suggestions. They are not crazy to dream of such a trip. But a lot of American 20 year olds have had a very inadequate education for reasons well-informed adults know all too well. In fact, they might have had parents like you.
20 year olds can, in fact, fly into London, take the tunnel train to Paris, take an overnight train to Venice and fly or train into Germany (Munich?) and be home in 12 days and have had a thrilling experience.
Before suggesting such a trip, I would applaud their desires to get beyond the limitations of their culture that doomed their parents to lifelong loser activity and resentment, and use the occasion to educate them better about Europe and its geography. I would also take the time to find out what kind of travel would make them happy that's within their resources.
You point out the source of a lot of the "snarky" comments to newbies. A complete lack of imagination on the part of a lot of Fodor's regular posters. They simply cannot imagine other people's travel desires, travel temperment, travel fun. They really can't. They think anything other than the forumla for travel they do is "stupid" or "crazy".
Jan 3rd, 2012, 07:40 AM
#26
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Most people who have posted more than a handful of times have probably been accused of being snarky at some point. Those who make the accusations obviously have no sense of irony (and yes, if you have a sense of irony, you will discern that the foregoing comment virtually clanks).
You would admire me greatly if you appreciated how many times I have refrained from posting what I really think.
You would admire me greatly if you appreciated how many times I have refrained from posting what I really think.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:21 AM
#28
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This thread really is at one extreme of social contact.
The only other board I frequent has, due to sponsor pressure, banned ANY negative posting. Not just jibes or shots across the bow but posting anything negative.
Apparently, It looked bad to prospective visitors to the islands. One thread was deleted because it showed a upload of feeding sharks off the dock...a negative image and deleted.
Things have become a little like Seaside (FL).
Fodorites be thankful of limited editing.
The only other board I frequent has, due to sponsor pressure, banned ANY negative posting. Not just jibes or shots across the bow but posting anything negative.
Apparently, It looked bad to prospective visitors to the islands. One thread was deleted because it showed a upload of feeding sharks off the dock...a negative image and deleted.
Things have become a little like Seaside (FL).
Fodorites be thankful of limited editing.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:32 AM
#29
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Many good points of view. Personally i agree with nukesafe, ellen75005, and zeppole the most.
Here's a story about Benjamin Franklin's mother, who had 17 children: once a neighbor asked Mrs. Franklin how she was able to be so patient in answering the same question from one child over and over again? Mrs. Franklin's response was that - if she lost her temper the tenth time the question was asked, then that lose of temper negated all her patience the previous nine responses.
The same question about the same place may be asked over and over again on Fodors, there is no reason to be snarky. Just don't answer the question. We have that choice that Mrs. Franklin didn't have.
I also disagree with the view that just because one lives on the East Coast, one gets a license to be snarky. Snark is snark wherever one lives on this planet.
Here's a story about Benjamin Franklin's mother, who had 17 children: once a neighbor asked Mrs. Franklin how she was able to be so patient in answering the same question from one child over and over again? Mrs. Franklin's response was that - if she lost her temper the tenth time the question was asked, then that lose of temper negated all her patience the previous nine responses.
The same question about the same place may be asked over and over again on Fodors, there is no reason to be snarky. Just don't answer the question. We have that choice that Mrs. Franklin didn't have.
I also disagree with the view that just because one lives on the East Coast, one gets a license to be snarky. Snark is snark wherever one lives on this planet.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:25 AM
#30
I'm guilty of snarkieness. Sometimes something someone said just pizzes me off to the point I have to say something. The most recent snark was directed at someone who
1. recently finished a trip.2. before said trip asked several questions.3. upon returning home did not post a trip report except-4. bitching about certain aspects of travel.
As politeley as I could I suggested he has a bad attitude.(or not)
I often hit the delete button but sometimes I hit the submit button instead. BTW, I am going to Paris, are there any hotels or restaurants there?
1. recently finished a trip.2. before said trip asked several questions.3. upon returning home did not post a trip report except-4. bitching about certain aspects of travel.
As politeley as I could I suggested he has a bad attitude.(or not)
I often hit the delete button but sometimes I hit the submit button instead. BTW, I am going to Paris, are there any hotels or restaurants there?
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:42 AM
#31
crckwc1,
I agree with you totally and don't back down in the face of pressure.
zeppole, bravo to you too!!!
Each forum has a few very knowledgeable contributors. Some have risen to the level of "revered" and unfortunately have mistaken that for "god".
I have always offered advice on places I've visited by carefully check the OPs rules/restrictions (actually once I made a mistake and I'm sorry) and build my response around them.
I have stopped asking for advice for an upcoming trip because a couple of "gods" heckled me when my rules didn't coincide with their vision. Then when I repeated the rules several other gods joined in on the attack.
I agree with you totally and don't back down in the face of pressure.
zeppole, bravo to you too!!!
Each forum has a few very knowledgeable contributors. Some have risen to the level of "revered" and unfortunately have mistaken that for "god".
I have always offered advice on places I've visited by carefully check the OPs rules/restrictions (actually once I made a mistake and I'm sorry) and build my response around them.
I have stopped asking for advice for an upcoming trip because a couple of "gods" heckled me when my rules didn't coincide with their vision. Then when I repeated the rules several other gods joined in on the attack.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:51 AM
#32
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My only issue is that we are all 'volunteers' here. If someone does not even make an effort (what is there to see in London?), then I can see why it riles some people up. If were a travel planner getting paid by the hour, I might lick my chops...
And yes, sometimes, a trip can seem crazy. Is it wrong to (gracefully, and with the backing of experience), to humbly suggest so?
Advice can be received and ignored...as long as both sides have the facts straight. Yes...you will only have 1.5 days in Amsterdam..are you OK wioth that???
People here have strong opinions and are not afraid to voice them. If it were not so, would there be people reporting back that they were glad to have changed their plans, or conversely people who said they wished they had listened?
And yes, sometimes, a trip can seem crazy. Is it wrong to (gracefully, and with the backing of experience), to humbly suggest so?
Advice can be received and ignored...as long as both sides have the facts straight. Yes...you will only have 1.5 days in Amsterdam..are you OK wioth that???
People here have strong opinions and are not afraid to voice them. If it were not so, would there be people reporting back that they were glad to have changed their plans, or conversely people who said they wished they had listened?
Jan 3rd, 2012, 09:58 AM
#33
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C'mon, crckwc1, two nanoseconds of thought should convince you that these boards won't change! 
I grew up in a snarky family but was taught that it was reserved for loved ones, never to be used on perfect strangers!
When I see snarky responses I have two thoughts:
This is who they are in real life and a) have alienated everyone they know and are a bit miserable or b) have found a circle of friends that truly appreciate their snark and therefore don't realize how they come across to others.
This is NOT who they are in real life but every time they bite their tongue to Fran's "Someone's got a case of the Mondays!" they die a bit inside so they come online to anonymous forums and let off some snarky steam.
Learn to look past it for whatever good information they can provide.
I grew up in a snarky family but was taught that it was reserved for loved ones, never to be used on perfect strangers!
When I see snarky responses I have two thoughts:
This is who they are in real life and a) have alienated everyone they know and are a bit miserable or b) have found a circle of friends that truly appreciate their snark and therefore don't realize how they come across to others.
This is NOT who they are in real life but every time they bite their tongue to Fran's "Someone's got a case of the Mondays!" they die a bit inside so they come online to anonymous forums and let off some snarky steam.
Learn to look past it for whatever good information they can provide.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:30 AM
#35
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Good point Michel_Paris. Snark is often in the eye of the beholder. When I do it, I'm actually being helpful but pithy and witty at the same time. When others do it (and I disagree with them) then its rude and snarky!
Jan 3rd, 2012, 10:33 AM
#36
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<i>"And yes, sometimes, a trip can seem crazy. Is it wrong to (gracefully, and with the backing of experience), to humbly suggest so?'</i>
It's not wrong - especially when, after laying out a questionable plan, they then ask flat out: "Am I crazy?"
It's not wrong - especially when, after laying out a questionable plan, they then ask flat out: "Am I crazy?"
Jan 3rd, 2012, 11:37 AM
#37
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zepp, very funny (and snarky?): qwovadis,
If you are serious you are trying to save lives, you should adopt a more readable posting style.
___________________
meyer, who?: Each forum has a few very knowledgeable contributors. Some have risen to the level of "revered" and unfortunately have mistaken that for "god".
___________________
But, how would a first-time poster know s/he could even search the forums? Maybe someone could write up a primer for new travelers and it could pop up before a new poster posts.
I try to harken back to our first trips and how nervous we were. It took a couple of sojourns before we actually believed that ours was not the only country in the world.
It does also annoy when folks generalize about a place after only one visit.
If you are serious you are trying to save lives, you should adopt a more readable posting style.
___________________
meyer, who?: Each forum has a few very knowledgeable contributors. Some have risen to the level of "revered" and unfortunately have mistaken that for "god".
___________________
But, how would a first-time poster know s/he could even search the forums? Maybe someone could write up a primer for new travelers and it could pop up before a new poster posts.
I try to harken back to our first trips and how nervous we were. It took a couple of sojourns before we actually believed that ours was not the only country in the world.
It does also annoy when folks generalize about a place after only one visit.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 11:56 AM
#38
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I have a few rules for myself when I answer questions:
I don't open threads that I know will irritate me.
I don't make itinerary plans for people who I feel haven't done any research.
We all travel differently, I'm not here to change the way you travel to the way I travel.
When I see a question asking about something I hate , a tour guide in Paris that I didn't like, a canal boat boat trip I took that was just downright awful, cruising in general...etc...I don't usually give my experience..why...because if they use the search button my threads will come up and the info is all there, and besides, they might love that person/trip/experience even if I didn't. I don't see it as my job to talk them out of it.
On the other hand if they ask for specific info I will certainly contribute, even a not so glowing report of the situation...IMO only!
Lastly: I don't argue with a computer. If someone gives me attitude/snarkyness on a thread I absolutely ignore it, which I feel will piss them off more!!! I feel some of these people are idiots and arguing with an idiot brings me down to their level, so if I win I'm a little better than an idiot and if I loose?? I have enough of people in my daily life to be snarky with
I don't open threads that I know will irritate me.
I don't make itinerary plans for people who I feel haven't done any research.
We all travel differently, I'm not here to change the way you travel to the way I travel.
When I see a question asking about something I hate , a tour guide in Paris that I didn't like, a canal boat boat trip I took that was just downright awful, cruising in general...etc...I don't usually give my experience..why...because if they use the search button my threads will come up and the info is all there, and besides, they might love that person/trip/experience even if I didn't. I don't see it as my job to talk them out of it.
On the other hand if they ask for specific info I will certainly contribute, even a not so glowing report of the situation...IMO only!
Lastly: I don't argue with a computer. If someone gives me attitude/snarkyness on a thread I absolutely ignore it, which I feel will piss them off more!!! I feel some of these people are idiots and arguing with an idiot brings me down to their level, so if I win I'm a little better than an idiot and if I loose?? I have enough of people in my daily life to be snarky with
Jan 3rd, 2012, 12:51 PM
#39
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susanna: <i>Lastly: I don't argue with a computer. If someone gives me attitude/snarkyness on a thread I absolutely ignore it, which I feel will piss them off more!!! I feel some of these people are idiots and arguing with an idiot brings me down to their level, so if I win I'm a little better than an idiot and if I loose?? I have enough of people in my daily life to be snarky with.</i>
Well, I don't like arguing with a computer either. However, aren't there <i>people</i> behind these computer postings? Or are they generated by a computer machine?
Whereas it's a noble sentiment not to engage but to ignore - it hasn't worked in real life.
The problem is that the lounge rats attack in a pack. If there were only one snarky poster, that would be easy to ignore. A pack of them, not so much.
Also the attacks are relentless. How often in a day can you keep ignoring personal attacks? in a week? in a month? in several months? On how many threads can you keep ignoring them, if they are stalking you relentlessly from thread to thread, day after day, month after month?
I've seen excellent forum contributors driven off these forums by the relentless, brain-dead attacks. At some point, these contributors either give up in disgust or are driven to respond in kind and that's when the lounge rats groupie complaints are made to the moderators.
Over the course of the last couple of years, the moderators have made a valiant and somewhat successful attempt to curb the nastiness in the Lounge.
Just my opinion, but the nastiness of the Lounge should not be allowed to infect the other forums as well.
The value of the travel forums is in the free given-and-take among the users, newbies and oldies, experienced travelers and first-timers and are open to travelers world-wide. By and large, travelers are an optimistic group and few want to take out their personal frustrations on other posters.
That's why, ever the optimist, I am hopeful that 2012 brings in more wit and charm in the travel forums and less snarkiness.
Well, I don't like arguing with a computer either.
However, aren't there <i>people</i> behind these computer postings? Or are they generated by a computer machine? Whereas it's a noble sentiment not to engage but to ignore - it hasn't worked in real life.
The problem is that the lounge rats attack in a pack. If there were only one snarky poster, that would be easy to ignore. A pack of them, not so much.
Also the attacks are relentless. How often in a day can you keep ignoring personal attacks? in a week? in a month? in several months? On how many threads can you keep ignoring them, if they are stalking you relentlessly from thread to thread, day after day, month after month?
I've seen excellent forum contributors driven off these forums by the relentless, brain-dead attacks. At some point, these contributors either give up in disgust or are driven to respond in kind and that's when the lounge rats groupie complaints are made to the moderators.
Over the course of the last couple of years, the moderators have made a valiant and somewhat successful attempt to curb the nastiness in the Lounge.
Just my opinion, but the nastiness of the Lounge should not be allowed to infect the other forums as well.
The value of the travel forums is in the free given-and-take among the users, newbies and oldies, experienced travelers and first-timers and are open to travelers world-wide. By and large, travelers are an optimistic group and few want to take out their personal frustrations on other posters.
That's why, ever the optimist, I am hopeful that 2012 brings in more wit and charm in the travel forums and less snarkiness.
