Rex

Sheila,<BR><BR>I don't know how or where you got the idea that I am "mis-characterising". You seem to be willing to "mis-characterise" the trips I have planned as commercial or semi-commercial.<BR><BR>I have been to Europe 21 times; 9 of those trips I planned and led for others. 8 of those 9 were for family, friends of friends of family.<BR><BR>No where did I suggest that planning and/or leading a trip for friends/family falls outside the range of what I do, what you do - - or seek to do.<BR><BR>I have never read a posting here from a "fellow loon". I don't know how many are friends or family of Elvira's, nor if the group is constantly changing. It wouldn't matter, in my mind. Elvira does what she does because she likes doing it. Those who travel with her are the beneficiaries of what she enjoys. Same for me.<BR><BR>

Sheila

Rex, (and joy, I apologise if I'm hi-jacking your thread) you saidBR><BR>"Let me know a general destination and a time of year. I will invest my time to organize, plan and lead the trip. I prefer travel by car(s), and a "slowtrav" approach, typically with a week or so in a villa or house. I drive, I buy groceries (a shared expense), and I cook. All free of charge."<BR><BR>I don't do any of those things and have no interest in doing them, contrary to your statement<BR>"sounds like sheila is going to be giving it a try"<BR><BR>I answer queries from people who ask them. I don't email people direct, tho' I sometimes invite them to email me, if I have information in a large document which Fodors will not allow me to post as a single post. I don't take them anywhere and I am NOT their tour leader, so by any standard, what you said was mis-characterisation. Marna, to my certain knowledge, is the same.<BR>

Rex

&lt;&lt;I'm in the middle of helping with trip planning for a number of people, who may be waiting to hear from me.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>from your "did you e-mail me?" thread...<BR><BR>So, maybe I have simply misunderstood, and badly. These are friends? or family? and you have to use this public message board to reach them?<BR><BR>And they did not come to you, asking for help? you approached them? and simply told them "here is a trip, I will help plan it for you, and I will pick your destinations for you"?<BR><BR>I don't get it.<BR><BR>I offer advice on putting together a trip. From as little as a person might need (i.e., advice here on this board) to as much as making all the arrangements and being the host.<BR><BR>You see differences. I see similarities.<BR><BR>

Leslie

Rex, why don't you just apologize to both Sheila and Elvira. You misinterpreted plenty and jumped to conclusions. <BR><BR>Sheila is just being helpful and has compiled a lot of information just as Ben Haines has, and as I have offered a lot of information regarding Prague. Sheila just shares the information and answers questions posed to her. She does not travel with Fodorites interested in vacationing in Scotland.<BR><BR>Elvira on the other hand sometimes goes on vacation with a group of friends -- her loons. Whether she arranges all or part of the vacation, she is going with friends, not her cyber-acquaintances here at Fodors.<BR><BR>I think the distinction is clear as to what both Sheila and Elvira do. You on the other hand, are trying to find companions to accompany you on a trip, of which you are willing to organize, make all of the arrangements, do all of the driving, and all of the cooking if you stay in such a location that has kitchen facilities. And, you say that you do not charge for this, and that all equally share in the expenses, however, you do control the itinerary, choice of vehicle, and lodging locations. Possibly you do get a kick back on the lodging, truthfully, I don't care. If people want to join you on a vacation, so be it. I just won't be one of them.<BR><BR>What is beyond me is why you would jump to such conclusions.

Sheila

Yes, Rex, you did misunderstand, and badly. <BR><BR>These people found me through here. I can't email them, because I can't get into my email programme which has crashed. So it seemed like an efficient way to let them know.<BR><BR>Some, simply want me to recommend a view; or a car hire firm; or a route for part of their trip. One lady wants me to do the lot and I have advised that's not what I do. Two leave for the UK before I get back from France, and I did not want them to think me rude if I was not answering their mail.<BR><BR>Already, since you posted this erroneaous view, I've had a message asking if I can help with planning a trip in Northern Europe, and area of which I am almost wholly ignorant.<BR><BR>They came to me and, no I DID NOT tell them "here is a trip, I will help plan it for you, and I will pick your destinations for you"?<BR><BR>No way, no how.<BR><BR>Is that clear enough? A simple yes would suffice. An apology would be the icing on the cake.<BR><BR>I offer advice on putting together a trip. From as little as a person might need (i.e., advice here on this board) to as much as making all the arrangements and being the host.<BR>

kate

Rex,<BR>what is confusing me about this thread, is unless I am mistaken,you do not know these people any more than the rest of us -yet you use their names and mention their activities as if you were good friends and you are privy to what they do at home or on holiday.<BR>Are you actually an acquaintance of Elviras or Sheilas? I am a relative newbie here, and although I really enjoy some peoples postings,I would never dream of volunteering any information that I think I have about them! <BR>Who are you? Don't you live in the US? How do you know what other posters do?<BR> I am not trying to be rude,only wondering what is your connection to other posters.<BR>Thank you,Kate

Rex

What I do understand quite clearly is that I have offended you sheila. and that my remarks offended you, says more about something over which you are very sensitive, than anything i said.<BR><BR>I am very unclear on why you repeated a sentence from my post as the ending of your last post.<BR><BR>If, as you say...<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;These people found me through here...&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>and<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;I offer advice on putting together a trip. From as little as a person might need (i.e., advice here on this board) to as much as making all the arrangements and being the host.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>how is this different form what I do, if you make all the arrangements and act as the host?<BR><BR>Is this only in Scotland?<BR><BR>=========================<BR><BR> As an aside, my remarks were addressed to joy - - who started the thread - - and it seemed to me that she is interested in joining a trip similar to the one Fodorites' trip I have done - - or likewise similar to what Elvira does with the Loons.<BR><BR>I offered a comparison, and I stand steadfastly behind the notion that people CAN meet via the internet and put together a group trip as peers, and have a great time.<BR><BR>To the extent that Sheila does NOT condone offering her services as a tour planner/leader, I sincerely apologize.<BR>

xxx

As I read Rex's latest post, it appears to be very condescending. He barely apologized to Sheila, because, as always in his own mind, he is always right and never wrong.<BR><BR>Sheila, don't accept his crumbs. Unfortunately, Rex refuses to be held accountable for providing misinformation.<BR><BR>Its absolutely no wonder to me why Rex's friends and family avoid traveling with him. No one wants to be in the company of a control freak.

Dazed

I just want to know who the hell is Rex????<BR>Is he just some poster who wants people to think he is an expert on travel? Or a wannabee?<BR>What is going on here? Why would anyone ask any stranger on this board to arrange travel for them?<BR>

April

Rex, it appears clear you tried to add credibility to your "small group travel with strangers" desire by attempting to align yourself with well-respected people (Sheila & Elvira) to claim an affinity between what they do (in Elvira's case, travel with friends and in Sheila's, she's doing exactly what this site is set up to do--offer advise) and what you do. <BR><BR>Stop trying to say that you and Sheila do the same thing. Good God, how many ways does she have to say that she does NOT arrange or participate in group travel, as you wish to do?<BR><BR>Final question--do you really, honestly, truly think that it is safe, wise or even reasonable to offer to take on responsibility for travel overseas with people you've never spoken to, let alone met?? Talk about a recipe for disaster! And you keep mentioning last year's "Fall Fodorite's Trip" as if that title will lead new people to think it is sanctioned by this site. It wasn't, was it? And where are the "Fodorites" who went with you? There's never been a post in your defense saying what a wonderful time was had by all? It seems they disappeared from this site after the trip. What do you think?<BR><BR>

Sheila

Good morning folks. OK. I promise this is the last post from me on this subject. I'm boring myself so heaven knows what I'm doing to anyone else.<BR><BR>Rex, I would go for outrage that you think your telling lies about me and that upsetting me says more about me than you, but I'm sure I'd be wasting my emotional energy. Hurting people is just not something you get, is it?<BR><BR>I don't like what you do; that's why I don't want people to think I do it too. Clear enough? Please note, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. You're entitled; but I'm entitled not to like it.<BR><BR>I apologise for the ending of my last post. The whole paragraph got orphaned from the paste board, since it's what YOU said, earlier on in the thread. You didn't recognise your own words? I see how the misplacing of the words could lead to confusion, and apologise for that, but let me make it clear. I give advice, about anywhere in Europe I KNOW about. End of story. <BR><BR>You carry on and stand by your notions, but don't confuse it with what most of us do, please. <BR><BR>"To the extent that Sheila does NOT condone offering her services as a tour planner/leader," Could you just acknowledge that that extent is 100%, please?

kate

If you can speak French reasonably well, check out Balaguere, a Pyrenees-based French company that organises accompanied and unaccompanied walking tours (mostly in the Pyrenees but in other locations, too). Not much detail on their website, but order their brochure, which is gorgeous (but completely in French, of course). Very reasonable prices.

browser

No shortage of drama queens on this thread. I quess it's all for public consumption although it seems like a minor thing that could be resolved offline. <BR><BR>Reinforces my stance that some take this place way, way, way, way, way too seriously.<BR><BR><BR><BR>

Jill

well,browser,that sort of says a little about you doesn't it? you had to put your 2c in there anyway? maybe if this had been Rex using your name and implying or downright claiming that you did something that you DO NOT - that it might have bothered you too! And most likely your answer would not have been half so polite or considerate,since my way of thinking is that this Rex twit is someone SO desperate for attention that since most people are on to him now,he must use other peoples names for credence.<BR>

Andy

Joy-- I have done an awesome SMALL tour of 14 people total in BURGUNDY--stayed in Chateaus,had some cooking classes,ate in Michelin rest., and toured the wineries-<BR><BR>A SMALL group is 14 people in 2 MINI Vans=which is what we had--NOT a huge bus with 35 people..<BR><BR>I got this tour thru Villasandvoyages.com---go to their website and click on SAVOR OF FRANCE-those are the small tours that they do--<BR><BR>THEN CALL DAVID at his phone number-DO NOT EMAIL- he is too busy to answer numerous emails-but he will speak to you over the phone- he is WONDERFUL...<BR><BR>The group has a French/English speaking guide and is FABULOUS!<BR>You will love it-<BR><BR>YOu can decide on Alsace,Loire Valley,Provence, Burgundy---<BR>They also do small tours thru Tuscany--<BR><BR>Hope this helps=

top

The Loons pretty much leave me to the planning. We evolve a place to go sort of by the Fates (and a couple bottles of wine) intervening. Somebody sees a magazine article or TV show, then we talk about it, eventually come up with a general area ("let's go to a Greek island")...and then I start planning. The Loons are pretty good about input early on, then they leave me to it. <BR><BR>Of course, this trip, my sister kept finding new stuff to do every other day ("I love you, Ahgeez, but we have 9 days in London, not 90") 'til I cut her off ("one more suggestion and I'm putting you on the London Eye all by yourself" - she's acrophobic). <BR><BR>I make up an outline of an itinerary and send it off to the Loons. They'll let me know if they want to add or subtract anything, then I do the detailed itinerary...half of which gets scrapped when we get there ("If I look at one more broken pot from 2000BC I'm gonna plotz - let's go buy lingerie!"). <BR><BR>I've stopped researching restaurants (only exception is if we're in the countryside, I do want to make sure there's someplace to eat nearby) because we never go to the ones I've picked out - we get hungry sooner than planned, or decide we MUST try Tex-Mex in France.... <BR><BR>from<BR><BR>Author: elvira ([email protected])<BR>Date: 08/31/2001, 10:05 am<BR>

Reader

Elvira travels with FRIENDS and her SISTER. Big big difference between that and recruiting strangers and badgering them after 100's of No's.

elvira

joy, it's not too late to start planning your trip for next year. There's Breakaway Adventures, which specializes in cycling and walking tours; Worldcycling; Country Walkers. I believe Patricia Wells offers small "tours" based on food. You might also want to check into barging - there are hotel barges for small groups.<BR><BR>If you're looking for a personalized tour, contact the French Tourist Office. They can recommend guides or small groups that will tailor a trip for you.<BR><BR>I do all the planning, reservations, etc. for the Loons, a group of friends and family. I would never do that for anyone else - it's an enormous amount of work, even knowing the individuals involved. I can't imagine trying to arrange all of that for strangers!<BR><BR>Sheila's put together a lovely itinerary of Scotland, but she has never offered to make all the plans, get railroad passes, reserve hotels, etc. That's what travel agents or tour groups are for. I've occasionally posted 2-4 day "itineraries" for Paris, but, like Sheila's, it's just a suggestion of things to do. I've also answered emails asking about the logistics and steps to planning a trip; I supply the tools only.<BR><BR>God bless anyone who does all the work of a travel agent, but doesn't get paid. I wouldn't do it for anyone but the Loons.

Rex

A description of a "group of two".<BR><BR>Author: Art ([email protected])<BR>Date: 08/01/2002, 11:10 am<BR><BR>Message: I've done it once. I posted re anyone interested in Poland and Romania in Jan 2001. Had 3 interested parties. Two ended up having conflicts but one Linda joined up with me. We did a lot of e-mailing and spoke on the phone several times. We did get to meet at the San Francisco fodorite GTG. She turned out to be a very flexible traveler as I am and we did discuss and change out itinerary a couple of times during the trip. She was also a very good navigator and driver during out trip. Good sense of humor and we had a very nice trip. I usually travel by myself but I have met about 45 fodorites without a bad one in the lot, so I guess it could happen again.<BR><BR>

Kelsey

In response to the initial post of this thread.<BR><BR>Author: joy ([email protected])<BR>Date: 07/25/2002, 09:38 pm<BR><BR>I was very surprised to learn that this is not a real e-mail address. I tried writing to you joy to see what are your interests in a small tour group to France. Would you write to me to let me know if you have found out anything?<BR><BR>My e-mail address is real. Minus the nospam part, of course.<BR>