Before I begin, let me issue a blanket apology for any ineptitude in posting. While I’ve read and benefited from this forum for many years, this is my first request for advice.

I have an odd (and perhaps unique) problem. DH and I are soon visiting Italy for the first time, traveling for two weeks in late September/early October. While we travel often in the US, we’re relatively inexperienced European travelers, having only been to France a couple of times. This trip is a gift from DH to celebrate the completion of my doctorate (at the advanced age of 50!) – he told me we could go anywhere I chose, and I chose Italy.

I’m aware of the pitfalls of attempting to tromp through the entire country in two weeks, so we’re not being too ambitious, spending a week in Rome, then three nights in Siena as a base for Tuscany, and then a couple of nights in Florence before looping back to Rome and back home. I have questions about some of that, but the most pressing issue for me right now is a seeming choice of seeing the Sistine Chapel or taking a Scavi tour.

Explanation: since we know no Italian, and are not familiar with Italy, and are relative European novices, we decided to take a Rick Steves tour for the first week in Rome. Then after that we figured that we would be comfortable enough to branch out on our own, so the Siena/Florence parts I’ve just booked on my own. I know one can debate the advantages and disadvantages of independent travel vs. taking a tour, but we took a RS tour on our first trip to France and enjoyed it a lot, so now for this trip it is what it is.

Anyway, as a lark I sent off a request for a Scavi tour, not expecting to actually score one – but wouldn’t you know it, I got a reservation. It’s on Tuesday, September 29 – I had requested that because Tuesday is “Vatican Day” on the RS tour, and wouldn’t that be convenient? However, the Scavi tour is at 11 Am, and the RS folks tell me that we have tickets for the Vatican museum at 9:15, and we’d be gazing at the Sistine Chapel ceiling in wonder at just about 11 Am. Then after a lunch break we visit St. Peter’s, so the afternoon is full. When I posed this question to them, they suggested that I try to switch the Scavi tour to Wednesday since Wednesday mornings are usually open for those who want to go to see the Pope. But, even if I could have made the Scavi switch (good luck with that), DH is a cradle Catholic and really wouldn’t want to miss seeing the Pope way up there waving.

So, the question is, do we blow off the Sistine Chapel, or forgo the Scavi tour? We could try to visit the Vatican museums on our own before the RS tour starts, but is that practical? We arrive in Rome on Saturday morning, September 26, and we don’t meet up with the tour until late afternoon the next day, Sunday September 27. So, in theory we could go on Saturday sometime (brand new in Rome, jetlagged and dull?) or on Sunday morning (it’s the last Sunday and free, so will be unbearably crowded?) I realize that either of these options would mean paying double for the Vatican (it’s included in the tour price), but at this point that’s not of great concern.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated!

Did you pay for the Scavi yet? I would try to re-book for some time not taken up with your tour. It doesn't take all that long and it is quite memorable. However, if I had to pick....Vatican Museum. But if you have one week in Roma there must be some time to fit in that Scavi tour, right? Sounds great and congrats. You're a role model for this 50yr old. PS I celebrated my 50th in Florence and Rome as well!

What about at the end of your trip, when you return to Rome after Siena and Florence? Do you have a couple of days in Rome again? Would you be able to fit in the Vatican Museums then?

What's happening on the RS tour in the afternoon after the Vatican? Could you just skip that entire day of the tour? Go on the Scavi tour and then do the Vatican Museums yourselves in the afternoon?

It's not that I think you should juggle your entire itinerary in order to squeeze in the scavi tour, but the RS tour only gives you less than 2 hours in the Vatican museums which seems very quick to me- personally I would want to spend more time than that.

If it's impossible to juggle things than generally speaking I think the museums would take priority over the scavi tour- unless you and your husband are far more interested in early christian history than in art.

I would keep the Scavi tour and ditch Rick's museum tour. You can do the museum on your own after you do the Scavi tour. You can book your own tour (or just tickets) directly with the Vatican for the museum. No reason you can't still do all you had planned to do, you just won't be doing it with Rick. I would not attempt to visit the museum on arrival day or the free Sunday. The lines are terrible on the free Sunday and they close early.

I would do the Scavi tour and when you exit, enter St. Peter's if you want to look around a bit. If you plan to spend some time there before or after seeing the Pope on Wednesday, then I would go on to the Vatican Museum after the Scavi tour.
http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/MV_Home.html

purduegrad- First of all, CONGRATS on getting your Doctorate. You go, girl!!!

I am also a Catholic and my adult daughter and I took the Scavi tour on a Tuesday morning and then attended the Papal audience the next morning (Wednesday).

Both were wonderful experiences, but as a Catholic- the Scavi tour is a MUST. It was one of the most moving experiences of my life time (outside of birthing my kids and graduating from Marine Corps boot camp. :]) To actually stand on the spot where St. Peter was crucified and to see his bones there--- I cannot explain it.

Here is my suggestion:

You can still do the Vatican Museums tour at 9:15am. Just leave the museum at 10:45 and head to the Excavations office (meeting place for the Scavi tour). It is just to the left of St. Peters, through the Swiss Guard. Take the Scavi tour, it is not that long. I think ours was 45 mts, but I believe it is scheduled for 60. Really depends on your guide and how many people are in your group and how many questions they ask. (There is a limit of 12 I believe for the group.)

Go see the Sistine Chapel on your own Saturday afternoon. It is not a large chapel. You could see it all in an hour or less, depending on whether or not you bring your binoculars.

I would then get yourselves some tickets for the Papal audience on Wednesday morning, since your RS tour allows you that time. Tickets are free, but you must reserve them and then you must pick them up from Santa Susanna on Tuesday evening by 6pm.

Here is a link to Santa Susanna (it is the head of the American church in Rome) and how to reserve your tickets:

http://www.santasusanna.org/popeVatican/tickets.html

If you go, you should be to St. Peter square by 8:30am. The line is very long for security check-in. If you want a seat as close to the front as you can, 8am arrival. Bring a book. And know this: toward the end of the audience, the Pope will bless any items you've brought with you, such as roasary beads or crucifixes, etc. He will ask you to hold them up and he will do a mass blessing. If your DH is Catholic, buying rosaries in the Vatican gift shop the day before and bringing them with that morning- they would make wonderful gifts for family/friends that are also Catholic.

Here is a link to the Vatican Museums tickets online. You could do just the Sistine, but you would not be wasting your time by doing the entire museums on your own on Saturday afternoon! It is not expensive and buying your tickets online lets you skip the long line you will find at the entrance!): http://www.sistinechapel.va/3_EN/pages/MV_Home.html

Here is a wonderful map of the Vatican excavations and what you will see on the Scavi:

http://saintpetersbasilica.org/Necropolis/Scavi-map.htm

Also, one more note. I don't think they hold any Scavi tours on the day the Pope is there, so I don't think you would be able to do a Scavi on Wednesday. (This is for security reasons I believe.)

You will have the most wonderful trip of your life! Italy is the most incredible country. I cannot say enough about it. I am going back in April and live to breathe in Rome again. (Florence is also wonderful. Three days would be wonderful there. Have you considered Venice for a couple of days?)

Also, the train system in Italy is fantastic. Second class tickets are perfectly great seats. Express train from Rome to Florence is about 1 hr 40 mts. Train from Florence to Venice, about 2-3/4 hrs.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions I can. You can email me at paulam910 at hot mail.

Buon viaggio!

My 21yr. old daughter & I went on the Scavi tour May 08 and it was a highlight of our trip (went to Venice, Florence & Rome). I am a "converted" Catholic and my daughter was raised Catholic and I believe your dh would be awed at seeing St. Peter's bones and burial place.
We went to the museum a separate day, in the afternoon when it was less crowded. We also went another day for the papal blessing and the crowds were overwhelming.
I should mention that we did this all on our own.The Scavi tour ends and lets you out right by the resting place of Pope Paul II, and you can then go back outside and into the front entrance of the main cathedral. If you have a good guidebook you will appreciate more what you are seeing, but I think the first time you visit here it is best to try and just enjoy the beauty of it all, imho!
Carla

I so agree with kybourbon and sarge. Great advice! Keep your scavi tickets and do the Vatican museums on your own.

Add one more vote to keeping the Scavi tickets & visiting the Vatican museums on your own. I'm not Catholic and I thought the Scavi tour was fascinating.

The Scavi Tour is fantastic. You must go on that tour.
You should have no problem going to the Vatican Museum on your own. I wonder if your tour guide could give you the tickets so you could go into the museum later in the day. Not sure how that works since we always travel independently.

We have been through the Vatican Museum, Sistine Chapel and St Peters twice now and each time it was wonderful. You must not miss any of it.

I just did the Scavi tour and have done the Vatican museums several times (not on the same trip). I must be on the minority as I found the Scavi tour very interesting but not as impressive as the Vatican museums , specially the Sistine chapel and the Raphel rooms. Of course, they are very different things. So if I had to chose one or the other I would vote for the Vatican. But like others have said you can have both. I think it wouldnt hurt to send the Scavi office an email explaining your situation and asking for a later scavi tour that same day. If they cant accommodate your request I would follow kybourbon suggestion.

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I had the feeling that the Scavi tour was worth it, and couldn't just let it go.

I had asked for the Tuesday hoping for an afternoon time, as the RS tour overview indicated that after the museums there would be "time on your own" to climb the dome or whatever before meeting for dinner. But, maybe not.

In any case, I'll see if the nice Scavi people may be able to reschedule -- but I'll not give up the reservation.

I'll report the results. And, now I can ask some questions about other parts of my best-laid plans...

Thanks for the kind words, too! ;-)

One thing about the Scavi is the faith of the tour guides, which made the tour almost like a mini-pilgrimage. We had a lady who was either Austrian or German and she was just wonderful. Also, you can pop in and out of St. Peter's when you are there esp. in the late afternoon. there is a mass at maybe 6.30 pm and you can wander a little bit after the Mass. That was my favorite time there. Check me on the Mass time, though, it could have been a little earlier.

Mass is at 5pm on weekdays and Saturdays, 5:30 on Sundays
http://www.vatican.va/faq/index_en.htm

Late afternoon was also my favorite time at Saint Peter's with a choir singing and the light streaming through Bernini's window. At other times, St. Peter's felt to me as being too big and impersonal but during afternoon mass it felt like a church. If that makes sense.

I think I had the same guide as did fitznj and she did talk as if the tour was a mini-pilgrimage for her.

I would email the Scavi tour and beg to be rescheduled to the afternoon on Tuesday.
That way, you can see the Vatican Museum, including the Sistene chapel and not pay or go twice. If you have to miss the St Peter's portion of the RS tour, no big deal. Go after the Scavi tour, or go back on another day.

I would like to thank everyone for your wonderful replies! You have been most helpful.

sarge56, thanks for all of the great information; I hadn't thought about getting tickets for the Papal audience. I'll contact the RS people again to see if they provide tickets for that, too -- or are the tickets person-specific? Regardless, I'll find out.

Shanti, you mentioned mass at St. Peter's. DH, good Catholic that he is, makes it a point to attend mass wherever we travel. We've been to mass all over the place -- from Notre Dame in Paris to the White Dove of the Desert in Arizona. Is mass at St. Peter's really special and we should make a point of attending, or are others (St. John Lateran? etc.) just as good?

Maybe I shouldn't be wandering from the original question here...

Thanks!

I don't care about taking the Scavi Tour.

I just want to take a tour of Fendi.

Thin--a simple Quaker

PS--Are those bones really St. Peter's or are they some pork chop bones left over from a meal of Pope Urban IV?

purduegrad,

I'm not even Catholic & I went to mass at Notre Dame in Paris, too. Not to mention a couple Corpus Christi masses in Andalucia this year.

A friend of mine asked if I go to church and I said only when I'm in Europe.

I used to live in Tucson and visited the White Dove of the Desert but never during services.

I didn't particularly like St. Peter's most of the time I visited - it seemed too big and as if it were built to impress and intimidate instead of to inspire But there was a very different feeling to it during the late afternoon mass. The window is situated so the late afternoon sunlight floods the chapel. The choir (and they were teenagers, no less) sang beautifully. It was inspiring.

I attended a concert last year in Notre Dame for Fete de la Musique. The sun was setting during the concert and the doors, which face west, were left open. The sunlight streamed into Notre Dame as the organist played. It was a similar feeling to the 5pm mass at St. Peter's.

But I was only in Rome for a few days so have no idea how mass at St. Peter's compares to mass elsewhere in Rome.

Thin, skeptic that I am, the evidence suggests (but can't definitively prove) that the bones are St. Peter's.

Well, my goodness, Cries, amusing but that last question??!!

I went to Mass at Santa Susanna, the American church. Wonderful. We sat around the altar and I was with a pilgrimage group on their last day. It was great. I also went to the French church at the top of the Spanish Steps and that was lovely. Finally, went to Maria Maggiore and saw Cardinal Law preceded by like 50 priests. That was more Vatican than the Vatican. The thing that was cool about Mass at St. Peter's is that they must have a lot of guest choirs at these afternoon Masses and the one I saw was a Men's group from Spain and they sounded great and were just so emotional. Very moving.

When I took the Scavi tour it was led by a young academic and our tour focused more on architecture and pagan/early christian burial practices than it did on any spiritual themes- which was perfect for me because I'm a second generation atheist descended from a long line of protestants. The tour was really interesting and just really really cool.

Sorry, but I just don't get the Catholic holy relic thing.

We Quakers don't shake and bake over someone's old tooth.

Thin