Ian

We too are planning a trip to Turkey. And visiting the usual suspects. My preliminary itinerary is:

Fly to Istanbul
3 nights (2 full days Istanbul)
Fly IST to Izmir (rent car)
6 nights in Sirince (5 full days - days trips to Ephesus, Aphrodisias etc etc ruins, villages, maybe beach)
Fly Izmir to Kayseri (rent car)
4 nights Goreme or Urgup (3 full days)
Fly to IST
3 nights Istanbul (another 2 full days)

I am splitting Istanbul since we fly in & out from there. And cities are usually not the best part of our vacation fwiw. I am thinking about using the Sirince/Selcuk area as a base for exploration of western Anatolia & also to have some relaxing days when we do nothing. Maybe the Sirince Terraced Houses for 5 or 6 days. Does this make sense or is there another area that would be better suited?

Any comments are appreciated . . .

Ian

tcreath

We stayed in Selcuk but loved Sirince. Both are great options for bases for exploring the area in my opinion. Sirince is higher up in the mountains, so you would have to drive back down (only a 15 or so minute drive, if I recall correctly, from Selcuk) but the drive is lovely with fruit trees and orchards and beautiful views. The town of Sirince is small but there are several restaurant options and it has a great atmosphere. Selcuk has more to offer in regards to restaurants, shops and grocery stores but as I mentioned it's only a few minutes away.

Tracy

otherchelebi

Ian, sirince is a very good idea;
- you will have nicer and larger rooms than in selcuk
- a bit more expensive but nicer boutique hotels
- do not fall for their fruit wines although you could try the sour cherry wine.
- in fact none of their wines are good
- their olive oil is excellent.
- their salad greens are terrific. My favourite is (turp otu=radish plant)

I would advise first half of May and all of October, stretching into November, although number of rainy days increase during the Fall months especially in Istanbul.

Six nights in the region is terrific!!
Finally, someone i can recommend one of my favorite day tours:

-About two hours drive mostly on motorway towards Salihli.
- A few kilometers before salihli, visit first the Temple of Artemis and then the Gymnasium and the Synagogue of Sardis at Sart.
- before you get to salihli, turn right towards Bozdag, a mall mountain resort. See the broom maker at Allah Diyen (god sayer) village, continue towards Birgi from Bozdag. about 5-10kilometers after Bozdag, take a right turn to visit the small lake of Golcuk. Possibly lunch there.
- Drive back up and then down to birgi. Visit the old mosque and the fabulous mansion. do not drive up to the mausoleum and cemetary and to the castle.
- Get back via Odemis. We have not done this because we were going back to istanbul, but you will probably make some interesting discoveries on the way from Birgi/odemis to selcuk.


another point, please do not miss Herakleia (kapikiri) on lake Bafa

and please have some catfood for cats with you during your stay in Sirunce/Selcuk (kedi mamasi in turkish)

Mathieu

My itinerary was almost identical to yours, and I agree with the information and sentiments of Tcreath and Ochelebi.
The drive from Izmir airport to Selchuk is easy and interesting and Sirince is very pretty. I did 2 days in each and found that relaxing and pleasant enough to do a lot. In Selchuk theres Ephesus (I used to run to the entrance of the site and back to my hotel every morning of the 2 days I was there - 3 kms each way) and the cathedral of St. John, as well as the house of the Virgin Mary and a beach (begins with a 'P') about 5kms away.

Sirince is higher up, a windy and steep drive through vineyards and olive orchards; I enjoyed exploring the town and walking through the hilly slopes, feasting on warm sweet grapes and other fruit and veg handed to me by smiling farmers (it was October). Its very pretty and picturesque.

Between the 2, I'd say Selchuk is a better bet for a base to get to other places as it would avoid your having to go up and down the steep inclines and hairpin bends as Tc points out.

And agreed with chelebi about the wines though there are some really nice local/peasant wine bars with live music in which to chill. Foods great too.

tcreath

Shhh...I admit I kind of liked the wines but...I'm not a big wine drinker and prefer mine on the slightly sweeter side.

And I loved all of the cats in Selcuk! There are lots of them, and most are very friendly. Bring some treats to Ephasus too, as there are plenty there as well.

Tracy

Ian

Thank you all. Great responses (esp the side trip otherchelebi) Keep the suggestions coming. I have read everybody's trip reports btw. I was leaning towards Sirince because of the house rental from Terraced. That way we could self-cater a bit. I love twisty drives although my wife is quite the opposite.

I have Google Earth pockmarked with all of the ruins in the area but quaint villages & nice drives are very welcome.

Ian

otherchelebi

We are away from our home and the laptops do not have much stored, so will give more info after tomorrow.

See if you can find a copy of "Koy Koy Turkiye" the most detailed Turkish map book available. Although it is not up to date, we have found it quite sufficient and very useful.

The best books on antique sites are those written by John Freely, my former physics professor, and editor of former literary magazine "Golden Horn" which refused my epic poem submission in 1966.

Ian

Well, I just read Orhan Pamuk's Snow & Istanbul & Lord Kinross' The Ottoman Centuries as history prep. I do need some practical info. It looks like Freeley's The Western Shores of Turkey might be good. Thanks.

Ian

otherchelebi

I have checked your profile and appreciate your sharing your reading. It is a pleasure to assist you.

I find Orhan Pamuk very depressing. He lived in the same areas of istanbul i lived in earlier and i remember them as bright and joyous. I also knew his father well and do not blame Orhan Pamuk in feeling the way he did.

Ian

> I find Orhan Pamuk very depressing.

I can't deny it. I was glad to finish both books. They were a good window into modern Turkey but he certainly emphasizes the 'beaten' & 'crumbling' side of the Turkish psyche.

I have also read some books of the Persian, Greek, Roman histories of Anatolia so I am looking forward to Ephesus & Aphrodisias et al. And I see that I will have to add Sardis – the temple of Artemis - as well.

Ian

otherchelebi

The following are some of the presentations we prepared, which may be of interest to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpO9TEZ-t-Q

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredi...fUQ&feat=email

http://travel.webshots.com/video/308...04991763EuRfXG

Aizanoi is probably too far off your path.

But iznik is somewhere well woth visiting on a day trip from istanbul.

If you have not already read it, i recommend Gore Vidals "Creation" for Persian and Greek history of Anatolia and also excellent coverages of china and India. If you can find it buy the earlier edited version which is better reading than the new unabridged version.

Another good historic novel is "Julian" again by Gore Vidal.
This will give you better information on life in the antique cities you will be visiting.

For Turkey in the thirties and fourties, the translation of the epic poem, "Memleketimden Insan Manzaralari" (Human scenes from my country?) by Nazim Hikmet would be a very good read.

Ian

Thanks for the pics etc. I love ruins. I have read both Vidal books long ago & plan to reread this year. It appears that I have both versions of Creation here.

I doubt we will have time for Isnik. With just 4 full days in Istanbul, the only day-trip will probably be a Bosphorus cruise.

Ian

Ian

OK. My plan is kicking into action. I booked a direct flight YYZ to IST & return today via Turkish Air - Executive Class - for Apr 30 through May 16 (Star Alliance Points so you gotta grab them early y'know).

I launched an email to Omer at Sirince Terrace Houses inquiring for 6 nights.

I love planning trips.

Ian

otherchelebi

You have picked an excellent time for sightseeing and walking without the heat and large crowds of tourists.

Istanbul has many conventions and room numbes are not high so you may wish to start considering Istanbul lodging before the end of this year.

I suggest that you stay at the historic sultanahmet for the first or the second part of your Istanbul visit and stay near Taksim or at Nisantasi/Tesvikiye for the second part.

An interesting location is Villa Zurich in Cihangir, but has smallish rooms. Point Hotel is a possibility also. Tom tom suites may also be an interesting choice.

For the historic area, check Trip Advisor recommendations but ask also because many of the hotels solicit good reviews and you cannot trust them fully. Check to see how may posts the reviewer has. If he has only one, do not necessarily believe it.

At Tesvikiye Parh Hyatt is a lovely hotel with a very good location in a fashionable and upscale area.

If you like, the Radisson Blu at Ortkoy and the Bebek Hotel at Bebek, both on the Bosphorus are very beautiful.

I just looked at the Bebek hotel rooms. The front rooms have small balconies stretching over the water, and the rooms are about 45 meters about 420 sq feet. Also the hotel bar is possibly the best bar on the Bosphorus, especially before the supper clubs, Reina and Sortie open their season.

Ian

A change of plan . . .

My wife & I were hashing out the trip & we came to the conclusion that a base was impractical in Anatolia for the amount of time we had. We would spend a lot of time ‘heading back’. And Sirince looked just a bit less accessible for ins & outs & to be honest, it looked a wee bit too laid back. So that threw the plan into the garbage bin.

A new plan:

Fly IST to Antalya.
Rent a car & drive to Cirali. Stay 2 nights in a beachside cottage – see Olympos & Chimera fire etc but mainly kick back.
This is the tough day. Drive 5+ hours to Pamukkale. Spend 1 night. We don’t – as a rule – do one nighters but it appears necessary here.
Drive to Selcuk – with a long stop in Aphrodisias.
Spend 2 nights in Selcuk.
Drop car at Izmir & fly to Cappadocia.

What says the Fodor’s experts? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

Ian

otherchelebi

Ian, these decisions should be based on what you and your wife think you will enjoy the most.

i consider my part as someone who gives you practical information upon your choices.

cirali is a nice, laid back resort with an authentic village, a very different and special eco system rich in plants and trees not available in other parts of the Turkish Southern Mediterranean coast. Something like the Burroughs' "Lost World'. Twenty years ago there was a scorpion problem there, but Carrie, the owner of Canada hotel assures me that she has not seen one in many years.
However, i would still wear sneakers rather than sandals when walikg to the Chimera, not only against scorpions, but you will be climbing (not steep) rocks.

The trip from cirali to pamukkale is not tough if you go back through Antalya. Most of it will be dull though.
It will take longer if you go West to visit Kas, Demre, Patara, Letoon, Xanthos but may be worth it.

in fact, you could consider doing it this way, missing pamukkale altogether and staying O/N at fethiye for Olu Deniz, and the lovely town, replacing hieropolis and aphrodisias with all the antique towns you will see between Cirali and fethiye. This drive will be very enjoyable, giving you history, scenery and beach.

by the way do not forget to visit Phaeselis , past Kemer on your way to cirali from antalya. It is a very short drive from the highway. \take an extra whiff of the pine trees on yor way and at Phaeselis for me, and say hello to Carrie at Canada Hotel from me. she may even loan or rent you bycicles to ride around Cirali.

If you go to fethiye and then drive to Olu Deniz, stop at Kayakoy, on the hill on your way, a large village left intact by the Greek inhabitants, which was the subject of a popular novel, and never settled by anyone else. You can stop for lunch or tea at Villa Rhapsody, and again say hello to Jean, the dutch owner.

You can drive up to 10% above the speed limit with impunity.
There will be radar on most highways, especially close to towns. Look for smallish vehicles parked facing the wrong way on the side or on the median, usually with a door open for the officer to get some air.

You do not need an international drivers license as long as your national one has a handsome photo of yours.

All scenic and historic sites have name signs written on brown plates.

When driving frm Antalya, you will be taking the ring road around the city hub. Follow directions to Kemer and not to City Center. Once you are out of the city, there are no other major intersections, until you ge to the Cirali junction. you may take the Beldibi exit and the Goynuk exit from the highway to have an idea of those two resorts. The side road which has all facilities joins the highway a few kilometers later, so you will not need to backtrack.

I hope you hit the street market in Fethiye or Selcuk, or even at other towns you pass, as these markets seem to be unique to turkey, setting up once a week with itinerant small consumer goods hawkers and the local fruit and vegetable growers.

Please do not hesitate to ask further questions.

Ian

Thank you once again, otherchelebi. I am getting the feeling that I will owe you a dinner by the time we make the trip. Seriously.

Yes, as you suspected, I am trying to balance the trip for both of us. I am a road warrior & I like driving. My wife much less so. Especially if there are mountains involved . . . Much the same on ruins. I would visit every one, but I have to be choosy to keep her happy & throw in other activities (as well as some plain old rest time).

I will look over your suggestions.

Thanks

Ian